r/moderatepolitics • u/Agitated_Pudding7259 Federal worker fired without due process • 1d ago
News Article Iran stops negotiations with U.S., vows to 'completely' block Strait of Hormuz: State media
https://www.cnbc.com/2026/06/01/iran-us-negotiations-strait-of-hormuz.htmlThe article says Iran announced Monday it will cut off all negotiations with the U.S. and move to fully close the Strait of Hormuz, citing Israeli military operations in Lebanon as ceasefire violations. Tehran also threatened to activate the Bab el-Mandeb Strait chokepoint connecting the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden. Oil prices jumped over 7 percent on the news.
The breakdown comes just days after Trump convened a Situation Room meeting to decide on a deal but left without making a decision. Trump posted on May 23 that a peace deal was "largely negotiated" and "Final aspects and details of the Deal are currently being discussed, and will be announced shortly." Both sides launched new attacks in the following days, and Israel escalated in Lebanon with Netanyahu ordering strikes on Hezbollah-controlled Beirut suburbs. Iran's foreign minister said the ceasefire applies to all fronts including Lebanon, and violations on one front constitute violations on all.
The Strait of Hormuz has been effectively choked off since the war began on February 28, with ship traffic far below the prewar level of 100+ vessels per day. About a fifth of global oil supplies passed through the strait before the conflict. Gas prices had come down some in recent weeks on deal optimism, but that appears to be evaporating. There are also concerns Iran could impose a tolling system on ships transiting the strait.
Trump posted on Truth Social that Iran "really wants to make a deal" and told critics to "just sit back and relax, it will all work out well in the end. It always does!"
If Iran really wants to make a deal why are they walking away form negotiations? If the US is winning this war, why are we suing for peace?
The answer is because Iran's strategy is working. Our president and the "secretary of war" who was confirmed by one vote are not reliable sources of information.
They have been preparing for this war for decades and they know how to win it. Choking off a fifth of global oil supply has driven U.S. gas prices up 50%, cratered Trump's approval ratings, and Republicans are openly panicking about the midterms. They know the situation trump has created is FUBAR and they know they're cooked in november. Iran doesn't need to win on the battlefield. They just need to hold out and make the economic pain unsustainable until the administration comes to terms.
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u/HavingNuclear 1d ago
What's funny is how many people (including in the markets) acted like the war was basically over when this last round of negotiations started. This has happened how many times now? Why keep falling for it?
Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't know that he's losing. And even if he figures that out, he doesn't know how to get himself out of this. He's surrounded himself with incompetence rivaling his own so there's nobody to help him. The rest of us are just stuck watching him fumble around and bearing the negative consequences of our 2024 choices.
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u/Agitated_Pudding7259 Federal worker fired without due process 1d ago edited 1d ago
They said this was close to being fixed, and now it looks worse. It makes the administration look like it either misread the situation or lied about the progress. It makes him look like someone who is incapable of managing complex agencies or projects. Everything he touches looks chaotic and disorganized.
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u/HavingNuclear 1d ago
I would bet it's both that they are consistently misreading the situation and that they're doing a lot of lying. This is the Trump administration we're talking about. Lying is a given.
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u/tarekd19 1d ago
They are likely even lying to each other which further feeds the misreading of the situation. The first term had plenty of stories of back biting and the stakes are even higher now for certain administration members looking to distinguish themselves against their competitors (Vance and Rubio mainly)
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u/november512 21h ago
My understanding is that we're not even really negotiating. Pakistan is negotiating and Witkoff is there to bring news back to Trump but we don't have actual people that speak Iranian and understand the situation doing work.
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u/lostroadrunner22 1d ago
I would they both lied and misread the situation, trump really thought this would be a cakewalk and now he lies and lies about the situation at hand.
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u/gayfrogs4alexjones 1d ago
What's funny is how many people (including in the markets) acted like the war was basically over when this last round of negotiations started. This has happened how many times now? Why keep falling for it?
it's because the line wants to go up and any little excuse will cause the market to pop - especially the post-covid market that has grown further and further detached from reality.
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u/SpaceTurtles Are There Any Adults In The Room? 23h ago
It awfully feels like I'm bearing the negative consequences of other peoples' 2024 choices. I don't think the term "our" factors in here exactly.
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u/Beneficial_Elk5868 1d ago
This is one of the things that's most infuriating about Trump and his supporters. Everything that was supposedly one of Trump's strengths is something he's actually terrible at. In this case: deal making.
We were told by Trump supporters he's a master deal maker, he's going to have the country so much better off with his amazing ability to negotiate wins for us! He's going to run the country like a business!
And he's fucking terrible at it. But none of them care at all.
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u/kralrick 16h ago
He's going to run the country like a business!
The problem is that people interpreted as Trump is going to run it like a successful, healthy business instead of one of his own businesses.
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u/NutmegKilla 21h ago
Trump was just on CNBC and straight up said he's "bored" of the war and doesn't care about it anymore. Our media (and every Republican in Congress) is legitimately out to lunch during what should be considered one of the biggest blunders in modern history.
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u/-Nurfhurder- 7h ago
It's like if Robert Downey Jr became convinced that he actually was Iron Man. He does a load of political rallies as Iron Man, tells everybody that as Iron Man only he can fix the Worlds problems, only he can make America great again. Half of America goes 'fuck yeah it's Iron Man!' and begs him to start a real life version of the Avengers, and on his very first mission RDJ turns up in a homemade cardboard Iron Man suit held together with duct tape, launches a 99c firework at the bad guy, and promptly gets punched in the head.
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u/Sunflorahh 1d ago
I saw a reel the other day from David Frum (Dubya's speechwriter). He said simply, the presidency is too big a job for Trump.
Just what a disaster this admin has been. Domestic policy, foreign policy, everything in between. The only constituency he cares about is the wealthy.
I don't know how supporters continue to justify and support his actions. Genuinely, I want to know their rationale. Are the wrinkles in their brain that different from mine?
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u/jason_sation 22h ago
The talking point of the job being too big is funny to me because the other things he has on his plate are the ballroom, reflecting pool, UFC fight and 250 year birthday concert. He’s basically just worried about stuff that affects a few square miles. I honestly haven’t heard anything policy wise that affects the whole nation in a while.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/FabioFresh93 South Park Democrat 1d ago
It’s like they live in a separate reality from the rest of us.
That’s the point. Republicans have spent decades building their media ecosystem. Conservative talk radio and Fox News have a loyal following. They have spent decades portraying their audience as victims and saying “you can’t trust the mainstream media, you can only trust us”. And yes, the other mainstream media is far from perfect, but it doesn’t have as much of an effect on one of our political parties.
I’ve been saying that Trump didn’t become the Republican nominee in 2016 because he’s a celebrity or a businessman. He got the nomination because he came from the conservative media ecosystem. He was appearing weekly on Fox News giving his 2 cents on anything. If it wasn’t Trump it could’ve easily had been Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh taking over the party. Many conservative talking heads have more influence than most politicians. I can’t think of anybody on the left with that much pull.
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u/Iceraptor17 1d ago
Tucker Carlson was actually getting some small talk as a future potential candidate before his fallout with fox. It's very true.
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u/FabioFresh93 South Park Democrat 1d ago
I think the talk has only increased since he left Fox. I would not be surprised if he ran in 2028 and I think he has a legitimate chance at winning the nomination.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
It has and he does. Because the Fox demographic is all old. Young right-wingers don't like Fox, they find it to be all out of touch Boomer blather that is stuck in a world that doesn't exist anymore. Tucker has his finger on the pulse of what the younger right wing thinks and that is the group that's growing, not shrinking.
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u/jason_sation 23h ago
I don’t. Trump has already started attacking Tucker, and even his administration has mentioned him as a potential domestic terrorist. Tucker won’t be anywhere near the White House while Trump is alive.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 23h ago
I think it's not safe to count this out.
Yes, Trump seems to be kingmaker during the primaries right now, but a lot of that is down to the people Tucker appeals to just not bothering to show up out of disgust and frustration. But they will turn out in 2028. And Tucker has a very strong following in the sub-50-years-old right-wing base. Much moreso than Trump at this point. Trump is being propped up by Boomers and the oldest cohort of Gen X.
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u/wizdummer 14h ago
Mainstream media lied about Biden’s health to protect the DNC. They lied about Rittenhouse, they lied about Kavanaugh, they lied about Hunter’s laptop.
Ferguson had riots because the mainstream media lied about “Hands up, Don’t shoot.”
The mainstream media is basically a branch of the DNC.
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u/FabioFresh93 South Park Democrat 13h ago
Mainstream media definitely has some questionable moments they should answer for. I'm not defending them. But Fox News and other popular conservative media has more influence on the Republican Party than other mainstream media has on the Democratic Party. Bongino, Patel, Hegseth, and Piro all left conservative media to work in the Trump administration.
And I think it's ironic that we separate the "mainstream media" from Fox News. Fox has the highest ratings out of all of the cable news channels. You can't get any more mainstream than that.
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u/EverydayThinking 6h ago
Some of that is true. But even so, what you should do in response is consume a wide variety of media, not fully descend into the right wing empire of slop and propaganda.
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u/nycbetches 1d ago
On Fox News, Trump is winning the war. And that’s the only source they trust, so that’s what they believe. Getting harder and harder for even those people to support him as prices keep going up, though. That’s one thing Fox News can’t handwave away or blame on the Democrats (though they’re trying!).
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u/That_Nineties_Chick 23h ago
Not sure if you’ve actually watched Fox recently, but trust me, they’ll do an incredible job of softening the blow for the Trump administration. I’m not kidding - gas could be $10 a gallon and Jesse Watters would be pulling off the seemingly impossible task of not only justifying it, but also arguing how things would be even worse under a Democratic administration.
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u/SpaceTurtles Are There Any Adults In The Room? 23h ago
I'm entirely convinced we are looking at the end of America if we don't dismantle Fox News completely (and sister organizations) and hand out actual consequences for the powers that be that sustain it.
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u/wizdummer 14h ago
Consequences for what? Not being DNC shills? The media lied about Joe Biden’s health and Hunter Biden’s laptop. 60 minutes edited multiple DeSantis speeches together to make him say something he didn’t.
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u/albertnormandy 1d ago
Most voters care about guns, abortion, and LGBTQ issues. Everything else is a sideshow to them. They will defend their team to the death as long as they stay consistent with those three things.
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u/nycbetches 1d ago
I don’t think this is true. I think most voters care about the economy the most. The price of things/inflation/jobs, to be precise, and to a lesser extent, the stock market.
There are definitely voters out there that care most about guns, abortion or LGBTQ issues, but they are the minority.
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u/_United_ still sane, unfortunately 1d ago edited 1d ago
people will vote for anyone for any reason. after reading countless "We Interviewed These Voters" articles from major publications, it is simply impossible not to conclude that many people are vibes-based voters.
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u/nycbetches 1d ago
Yeah people are definitely vibes based voters, and the vibes are that Republicans are better for the economy. I happen to believe it’s not true, but those are the vibes, I guess.
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u/KentuckyFriedChingon Militant Centrist 1d ago
They may say they care more about the economy. And maybe that's true. But when presented with undeniable evidence that Trump has made multiple decisions that have been terrible for the U.S. economy, they immediately bury their heads in the sand and handwave it away because either "We have to endure some pain for even greater gain down the road" or (the classic) "Biden Was Worse".
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u/nycbetches 1d ago
Well, yes, I do not think many people who claim to care most about the economy actually understand the economy. But I don’t think it’s malevolent, I think they actually, truly don’t understand. And they do not trust non-Fox News sources, so they don’t believe the “undeniable evidence” you’re talking about . Anything is deniable if you’re motivated enough.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 23h ago
See there's a basic misunderstanding with what the word "economy" means when it comes to the electorate. Voters don't care about the big macro numbers anymore. They care about their ability to buy shit. Nothing more, nothing less. If that's getting easier then they think the economy is good. If it's getting harder then it's bad. What the macro lines do is irrelevant.
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u/albertnormandy 1d ago
What people say and what they actually do are two different things. Jimbo may grumble about gas prices and whatnot, but he also saw the Democratic candidate say something boneheaded in a clip that got repeated on Fox News, so when he goes to the polls and is confronted with either R or D we all know how he will vote.
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u/okyesterday927 21h ago
This is my experience. The obsession with California, Crockett, Ilhan, Hochul, Waltz, etc… I can’t vote for these people/places, I do not care to that extent. I just ignore the politics talk now to avoid hearing some long rant about someone that has nothing to do with me & likely not even completely true.
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u/vladastine 19h ago
Looking at social media this is 100% true. They truly don't care about anything else. And if it hurts women even better. I just don't see anything breaking this. I know the economy is supposed to be king, but they're also in full the economy is great mode.
I don't know what to believe any more. What even is reality?
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u/polchiki 16h ago
Federalism is the answer. Small government means we worry about our own local school and fire districts, roads we drive on every day, the jobs, industry, recreation, and pollution in our own state and counties.
Headline news in my town is our local clinic in the red, location for the central sewer system coming to town for the first time in history, drama in the volunteer fire district, and summer market / camp promotions. We’d all be way happier and more productive if we knew and tended to our own local headlines above all else.
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u/Iceraptor17 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't know how supporters continue to justify and support his actions. Genuinely, I want to know their rationale. Are the wrinkles in their brain that different from mine?
Because what they hear is completely different. Remember over the past years during Biden all they heard was negative and all the bad stuff he was doing. Now they only hear all the great things trump is doing. Everything is so positive. And if the negative things somehow break through, it's fake news or out of context or not a big deal.
Propaganda works really well. There's countless examples of people who in far worse states still wouldn't blame their beloved leader. Bad boyars, good tsar has numerous examples
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u/CreativeCucumber17 18h ago
I've heard from his supporters that this is all worth it because we needed to do something about Iran
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u/Iceraptor17 17h ago
Right. But that's not exactly a view that was common in 2024. In fact we probably have president Harris if trump was like "I'm going to attack Iran. This will disrupt the economy but we need to do it"
But now that it's done, well, "we needed to do it".
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u/HavingNuclear 1d ago
Indeed it remains to be seen whether or not voters learn a lesson from this. More importantly, whether or not they apply that lesson to the circumstances of the next several elections. We've done a pretty terrible job at learning and applying lessons so far.
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u/MrNature72 1d ago
For the first time in basically forever, more people are registered independent than either party. It's roughly 45% independent, and 27.5% Republican and the same for Democrats.
Voters are more mercenary than ever, especially younger voters, and especially younger men on top of that.
While his hardcore base won't likely budge, I highly doubt he retains the gains he made with young men and minorities. As I mentioned before, those groups are highly mercenary, which IMHO is a good thing. Biden lost them to Trump due to the economy and border, Trump will likely lose them again due to his economy and war, perhaps even worse.
I've seen both sides now fall into the trap that they're secure in their standing or have some kind of mandate just because they won handily. I saw it with Obama, when Democrats believed and started the whole "demographics is destiny" schtick, just to get trounced by Donald Trump of all people 8 years later, and I wholeheartedly believe I'm seeing the exact same thing with Trump playing kingmaker within the GoP like he's the Caesar of a new immortal empire. Funny enough, both times they won so handily because a populist outsider shook things up and stole the camera wherever they want.
The big difference this time around though, is that while Democrats practically begged Obama to become a new figurehead (he's distanced himself fairly well, still involved but absolutely not trying to control the Dem party), Trump has essentially taken the throne of the GoP and thrown out anyone who didn't support him, without any care for competence or capability. Loyalty is all that mattered.
Frankly, I think that's gonna hurt the GoP way worse after he's gone than not having Obama as the figurehead of the Dems hurt the Dems. As long as he's kingmaker, it's gonna splinter the party and prevent any actual growth, progression or adaptation.
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u/HavingNuclear 22h ago
I think if those voters continue to just flip flop towards the outsider who promises them some change, no matter how nebulous, then we clearly have not learned a lesson from any of this. That's exactly the behavior that the next disaster candidate is banking on. And it will only continue to make things worse.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 23h ago
This is why the 2028 primary is going to be such a knock-down drag-out on the Republican side. Those right-leaning under-50 independents are going to be fighting tooth and nail to overthrow the MIGA Boomers and put a true America-first candidate up in the general. It's going to be ugly. And if they lose, if the next candidate is a MIGA neocon, then expect those people to just stay home on election day and the Republicans to get trounced in the general.
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u/thedisciple516 20h ago edited 20h ago
Genuinely, I want to know their rationale. Are the wrinkles in their brain that different from mine?
Simple. They believe the far left is worse, and the Democratic party is going more and more in their direction. Cancer Vs. Aids/Lesser of 2 evils and all that. A big part of Trump's appeal to like 30% of the country is self defense of a far left takeover. The believe the woke progressive left are an existential threat to America as they know it (they kind of are) and Trump is only thing that can/is stopping them.
Stupid or not doesn't matter. It's the answer to the question "How can they not realize how horrible he is and keep supporting him??!!" It's why they excuse all his flaws.
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u/5ilver8ullet 22h ago
I don't know how supporters continue to justify and support his actions. Genuinely, I want to know their rationale.
As a supporter, I regard Trump's domestic policy as a mixed bag of policies I like (secure borders, tax cuts, dismantling of DEI) and policies I don't like (tariffs, EOs interfering with the free market, pardons for rioters). I give him a B-.
Regarding Trump's foreign policy, however, there's really not a lot to dislike, in my view. Trump has been phenomenal when it comes to successfully wielding the hegemonic power of both the US military and its economy. The so-called "Donroe" Doctrine is aimed at ensuring our half of the globe does what's in the best interest of the US (military action with Mexico and Central/South American countries against drug cartels, deposing Maduro, pressuring Cuba to cut ties with former/current communist states). And the Middle East has been completely transformed, starting in Trump's first term. Iran, once thought of as the top regional power, has now been laid low by US/Israeli military forces, its economy wrecked, its terrorist proxies running for the hills or disbanded completely. Sunni states are integrating with Israel via the Abraham Accords. A+.
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u/Xanto97 Elephant and the Rider 21h ago edited 21h ago
I appreciate your answer, but I think even being optimistic, he’s had a lot of foreign policy issues that have hurt us.
First, even for the positives you listed - did Deposing Maduro even help us? Has life improved for Venezuela? Are our interests protected? Or did we just do this for oil? Genuine question. Regarding Cuba, If anything we’ve made them more dependent on communist states. they haven’t been a threat for decades, yet trump has ramped up the trade embargoes. And now we’re continuing to ruin life for them via a blockade. Russia is even trying to break our blockade to provide them oil. I’m not sure how this helps us, or them.
Tariffs is foreign policy, and us declaring economic war on the world certainly pissed off a lot of our allies. It would be good if it was worth it for us, but so far it doesn’t seem to be.
Destroying USAID is debatable but I think will overall backfire on us. Threatening to invade our neighbors and allies (Canada and Greenland) understandably pissed them off. Potentially staging an invasion of Cuba, starting this war with no solid plan to get out.
As a detractor, I will admit that he had some foreign policy wins in term 1 , but I haven’t seen many this year.
I certainly don’t think he deserves an A+. Mixed bag at most.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 1d ago
Luckily I just filled up
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u/festeseo 1d ago
Yea me too. I feel like everyone one here it's trying to time the market and I'm just trying to time the gas pump haha
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
I just invested in a set of overpants for my bike so that I can more easily use it for errand running in shorts season. Now it's just throw the (mesh) overpants on over my shorts instead of having to actually change. 45mpg when riding not exactly gently is a lot less painful than the 20 or less of my other two vehicles.
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u/smashy_smashy 1d ago
I am one of those people, but it makes me laugh. My preferred station has been flat at $4.49 for 4 weeks. If the price goes up, it’s going to stay up for a while. So timing gassing up doesn’t really do much as someone with a 20 gallon tank who goes through a full tank every 1-1.5 weeks.
The short term prediction of when to fill up doesn’t really make or break my budget. Even a $1/gallon increase isn’t a huge burden for one fill. But the long drawn out high price is obviously more impactful. Yet I still play this game of when to fill up before another price jump.
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire 1d ago
Time to finally fix the ol' motorcycle that gets 100mpg.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
I went from "I don't ride much, I should sell my bike to someone who will" to investing in the things to use it as a more practical vehicle with this Iran boondoggle. It may not get 100mpg, but 45 no matter how I ride (within legal-ish bounds) is not too shabby.
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire 1d ago
Same lol. Sold my bigger bike. Was gonna sell my Honda Rebel but thought "you never know when one of my friends will want to learn on something busted and easy"
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u/julius_sphincter 1d ago
Luckily we just purchased our tickets to Europe on Saturday. A trip we REALLY shouldn't go on but it's my wife's best friends wedding and we're part of it so... at least we got them before they doubled again
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 1d ago
I bought some to Italy through delta about 2-3 weeks ago, it honestly wasn't too bad. About 150 more than before. Not sure why it wasn't hitting that particular route/carrier as much
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u/julius_sphincter 21h ago
Oh weird because that's actually where we're flying. Tickets had gone from around $1500 for the pair of us to hovering around $1500/ea.
Saturday we found a deal plus using points that from a value POV landed us right about in the middle of that
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 20h ago
Yikes. Mine went from around 1000-1100 to around 1300 or so. points are where it's at.
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u/okyesterday927 21h ago
Same. I just bought tickets to Hawaii from NY area for this July for about $650, American Air & Alaska Air. I thought I was going to pay out the roof with everything going on. Are people just not traveling?
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 20h ago
I've even seen wallstreet journal reports of a 30% increase... maybe it's just not vacation routes yet?
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u/ItsBaconOclock 21h ago
The most vocal Reddit users don't leave their parents' basements. They just post on Reddit about how bad the world they've never seen is.
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u/okyesterday927 20h ago
And the rest of the world that’s not on Reddit? Confused on your response here.
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u/RockHound86 1d ago edited 2h ago
I can only imagine what gas prices will be when I leave work.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 1d ago
I'd leave work this year and know to check the news based on whether the gas station across the street had wild prices. not a good sign.
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u/Thuggin95 1d ago
Market manipulation Truth Social posts incoming
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u/Sykezx 1d ago
Do you actually check the market? It has been pinned at all time highs since the beginning of May, what is being manipulated with weekly news?
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u/No_Tangerine2720 19h ago edited 19h ago
3 days ago Trump said "go out and buy a Dell" right before they got a 10 billion dollar
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u/kitaknows 1d ago
You have to wonder what the conversations are actually like between the US and Israel behind closed doors. Knowing that Iran sees Israeli strikes in other regions as violating any ceasefires, are US representatives openly telling Israel, "Nah, it's fine, don't worry about that end of it and keep going"? Or is Israel just moving forward under the "easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" strategy until something gives? They have continually been cited as the reason Iran claims to be backing out and nothing is done differently, so is anyone even on the same page? Seems doubtful.
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u/dr_sloan 1d ago
There’s been a fair bit of reporting that the Trump Administration is getting increasingly frustrated with Netanyahu push to keep the war going. Similarly, from the Israeli side, there’s been reporting that Netanyahu has been frustrated by Trump’s willingness to negotiate a peace deal.
It’s not really conspiratorial to think that Netanyahu is pursuing the Lebanon operations to tank the negotiations and restart the “hot” part of the conflict. The IDF’s ability to keep the war going without US support is going to be limited at this point too.
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u/Living-Dimension7798 1d ago
Crazy fool in me wants Israel to really go at it.
So we can get out and watch them get their rewards. Continuing this on all sides, is suicidal.
Guess they really want to meet god like in the crusades. They’ll collapse without western money.
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u/KentuckyFriedChingon Militant Centrist 1d ago
More war is just going to be bad for everyone. Imo, the U.S. can bankroll all of Israel's DEFENSIVE capabilities if it wants to (Iron Dome, radar, etc). Sure. Fine. Whatever. But we have really got to halt offensive weapons sales/donations, and make defensive aid contingent on Israel abstaining from attacking and settling their neighbors. There are too many dead kids for my taste, and the United States is partly to blame for giving Israel what it wants, when it wants it, with literally zero strings attached, for decades at this point.
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u/Living-Dimension7798 23h ago edited 23h ago
I don’t even think that can be allowable at this point. Israel has shown a known capacity and willingness to turn defensive munitions and arms into offensive platforms.
Further, defensive munitions have made them bloodthirsty with an air of being untouchable. The dog needs reigning in. The Israelis are horrible liars about their intentions. As shown in their campaigns and usage of our material already.
I think they’ve burned through so much political capitol, they basically need cutting off and we need to shift heavier to the gulf countries and even Iran. Making us throw away our hegemony cause of something promised 3000 years ago(that has nothing to do with us), is only going to accelerate my viewpoint I think. Along with the Iranians being the diplomatically sound actor in all of this. Consistent basis of demands and retaliating, not initiating attacks. They seem more sane than either of us.
Realistically, their budget can now support the obviously going to be implemented Hornuz toll now. That’s where the Israeli budget can go. Paying for them dragging us(Trump own goal being this stupid and the only president in 40 years to test a known war game scenario, but i digress) into their mistake.
And this doesn’t even get into being colonized by Israeli lobbies. Lot of taxation without true representation going on.
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u/KentuckyFriedChingon Militant Centrist 15h ago
I don’t even think that can be allowable at this point. Israel has shown a known capacity and willingness to turn defensive munitions and arms into offensive platforms
"Don't attack your neighbors and don't utilize defensive aid for offensive means, or we will cut you off from all forms of aid, including intelligence." It's really not that hard.
we need to shift heavier to the gulf countries and even Iran
Respectfully, this is an extremely out of left field take. Iran is a genocidal pariah state that is hated by literally all of its neighbors. We should absolutely, under any circumstances, NOT be "shifting to Iran".
Realistically, their budget can now support the obviously going to be implemented Hornuz toll now.
Iran can in no way be permitted to charge a toll for passage across international waters, even if it was solely "paid for" by Israel. Aside from the fact that this would funnel money into their death cult theocratic dictatorship (that would be bad), it would set a precedent for every other country across the world to do the same, which would be absolutely ruinous for the global economy.
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u/slimkay 22h ago
Except that Iran was the one who most recently attacked US bases and tankers unprovoked.
This is also completely ignoring Iran’s key role in bankrolling most of the bad actors in the Middle East (Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis).
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u/tarekd19 21h ago
Is assassinating the spiritual/political leader during negotiations not a provocation? Not to mention killing members of his heir and successors own family...
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u/StrikingYam7724 20h ago
This whole "we can help them shoot rockets out of the air but not blow up the launch sites" is such a bonkers take, no other country on the planet is expected to do that. I guarantee you if some terrorists in Tiajuana started launching rockets at San Diego and the Mexican government didn't stop them, we'd start blowing stuff up in Tiajuana. And we'd be right to do it.
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u/MCRemix Make America ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Again 19h ago
Yes, but WE would be defending ourselves from an outside attacker in that case.
This is a war that Israel pushed for and refuses to de-escalate even when given the chance and WE are not Israel.
It's not our job to keep helping them fight an eternal war that Netanyahu wants to keep going so that he can avoid facing trial for his wrongdoings.
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u/Hour-Mud4227 17h ago
It’s not bonkers—it’s a way of aiding an ally so that you address a legitimate defensive concern of theirs (which Israel has) but distance yourself from that ally’s bad habit of offensive military overreach. (Which Israel also has)
I wish we could do the same with the Saudis, who aren’t acting much better than Israel in terms of what’s going on in Yemen, but the realities of the petrodollar unfortunately don’t make it possible. With Israel we have a choice, as they’re not a key socioeconomic dependency.
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u/StrikingYam7724 14h ago
If the defensive concern is legitimate then the strikes to remove the source of the rockets are legitimate. That's how war works for everyone else except Israel. They're the only ones expected to just shoot the rockets out of the air in perpetuity without doing anything about the launchers, and literally no one else would even try.
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u/Hour-Mud4227 6h ago
I don’t disagree they have a right to take out the rocket sites but they have to be more precise in doing so—more generally, Israel has shown a manifest lack of restraint in the broader counteroffensive, and this isn’t the first time. When you are the stronger, more developed power you have the burden of restraint, like it or not, and when you ignore it, it looks a lot like genocide, even if the motives aren’t genocidal. (I disagree with most Israel critics in that I don’t believe they are).
If a band of narcoterrorists bomb a building in El Paso, the U.S. has the right to respond and try to take out the offending slice of the cartel, but if the response is to carpet bomb the whole of Chihuahua into oblivion, it’s overreach, even if it achieves the U.S.’s military goal in the end.
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u/KentuckyFriedChingon Militant Centrist 2h ago
Thank you, exactly. Israel has not limited itself to only taking out rocket sites unless "Rocket Site" is the name of numerous Gazan schools and hospitals that have been reduced to rubble.
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u/Xakire 1d ago
It doesn’t really matter what the U.S. is or is not saying to Israel. The Israelis have been shown time and time again that they can do whatever they want with no consequences from the U.S. It doesn’t matter how privately frustrated American officials or even presidents may supposedly be from time to time, they never do anything.
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u/throwforthefences 1d ago
Yep, the moment the US even begins floating the idea of doing something to coerce Israel into following our lead (like suspending military aid to them), the accusations of anti-semitism will start flying.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
Although those accusations are becoming less and less effective. I could see a not-too-distant future where that accusation gets met with a "thank you" instead of a denial. Because you can only use that accusation to defend horrendous actions for so long before it becomes viewed as a positive label.
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u/whatisthisshit7 1d ago
People already are being called antisemitic for criticizing American politicians, including Dems like Schumer, marching side by side with “Greater Israel” extremists like Smotrich this past weekend in NYC.
I don’t think there will even be meaningful pressure within Congress to change our position with Israel, unless Trump very dramatically and publicly switches on them and the rest of the Republican Party follows. But even then, if there is anyone outside of Trump that Republicans have been vocally loyal to, it’s Israel and its supporters.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
Yup. Which is why I think it's more and more likely that 2028 will see the rise of openly anti-Israel candidates. And the longer this war goes the more likely they are to win.
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u/jason_sation 1d ago
I saw that Iran’s president offered a resignation. Would these actions signal that the IRGC is taking control of Iran and we can expect more hardline tactics agains the US?
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire 1d ago
Wasn't his public reason for quitting basically "IRGC does everything anyways and this position is useless"?
Unfortunately that kind of supports more fighting, sigh
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u/Living-Dimension7798 1d ago
Yep. Basically a war time government.
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u/Mr_Tyzic 1d ago
Or a military junta carrying out a bloodless coup.
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u/Living-Dimension7798 23h ago
I don’t think it’s that. This is coordinated. It’s a signal beyond just words they think the US isn’t worth talking to. Action is the order of the day.
And why would they? Bombed them thrice now during ‘negotiations’(rearm and regroup).
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u/Mr_Tyzic 23h ago
To be fair, Iran has also conducted strikes during the ceasefire. I think it's a bit early to tell, but it seems possible that the president stepped down out of frustration after he was unable to negotiate because the IRGC was not willing to abide by the civilian government's negotiations, and currently it appears that only the IRGC has access to the Supreme Leader.
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u/MCRemix Make America ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Again 19h ago
We've both conducted strikes during the ceasefire, but Israel is not helping this either with their refusal to disengage. (Hezbollah is not innocent obviously, but Israel is the one that got us into this, so I'm focused on them.)
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u/rwk81 13h ago
Israel really shouldn't disengage, it has never served them well in the past to stop fighting Iranian proxies. What Israel should do is fully destroy Hezbollah and help the Lebanese government retake control of their country.
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u/MCRemix Make America ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Again 13h ago
Maybe you're right, but none of that is our problem.
We shouldn't be stuck in this war because of Israel.
It's the Trump admins job to pursue our interests, not Israel's.
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u/tarekd19 20h ago
The ceasefire where terms weren't adhered to (continued bombing/invasion of Lebanon)?
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u/Mr_Tyzic 20h ago
And of course Hezbollah attacking Israel from Lebanon. There's been a continued back and forth from all sides on all fronts. The reality is that the ceasefire has been more of a reduction in attacks rather than no attacks at all, and every side is accusing the other of being the instigator while claiming their own actions are retaliatory.
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u/Plastastic Social Democrat 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd always imagined America's eventual decline and fall as a superpower would be partially self-inflicted but it's mind-boggling to me how almost the entire 2nd Trump administration has been own goal after own goal.
'Megalomaniac ruins empire with arbitrary and self-serving decisions' isn't exactly new but the fact that it's playing out in a democracy is astonishing. When is Congress finally going to put a stop to this?
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
What's even worse is that nothing related to Iran is self-serving. Trump has utterly destroyed his legacy and credibility with this. He's doing it entirely to serve Israel. He's literally acting a the agent of a foreign power with this.
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u/jason_sation 22h ago
He could’ve been the president that ended totalitarian rule since 1979 in Iran, and made it a more western friendly democratic nation. He has totally abandoned the talking point of helping those that protested the Iranian government
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 22h ago
I don't think he could've, actually. I think he was told he could, but in reality that never had a chance. Because the only thing that would maybe do that is to actually reintegrate Iran into the global community and economy and Trump was never going to do that.
But he could've just left Iran alone and sidestepped the issue altogether. That would've prevented the total collapse in legacy he's going to experience now.
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u/rwk81 13h ago
There's no evidence that the Jews/Israeli's forced Trump to attack Iran. To the contrary, he has been saying the same thing about Iran for decades.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
Actually there is. And this is NYT saying this, not exactly a fringe outlet or anything.
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u/throwforthefences 1d ago
Man I'm not sure there's anything Trump could've done to fuck us harder than what he's done in Iran. The US military undoubtedly could force the Strait open, but the actions needed to do so (such as a ground incursion into Iran or leading convoys through the strait) would risk much higher casualties than Americans are willing to accept, given that his administration didn't even try to build support for it amongst Americans or Congress before going in. OTOH continued closure of the Strait is gonna further increase gas prices, which are already creating significant strain throughout the US and global economies especially after the economic stresses created by Trump’s tariff chaos last year.
The vast majority of people didn't want this, even those who voted for him, but now we're stuck on this ride with Trump to whatever end comes. Shit.
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u/jason_sation 1d ago
The US already lost 13 service members because of Operation Epic Fury. Voters were upset over the 3 service members lost when the US pulled out of Afghanistan and Biden’s poll numbers immediately dipped. I’ve heard very little about the 13, which to me means that media coverage is being downplayed on the casualties of the war thus far. We know now that the US has also downplayed damage to its own military bases link to bbc article . I think the US really doesn’t want more casualties at all costs. I really expected Trump to call it a win and walk away by now.
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u/throwforthefences 22h ago
Trump can't just walk away because that would require the US essentially capitulating to Iran's demands and there's no way for even the most MAGA-brained podcaster to spin that positively. Even if we end our blockade of Iran and stop attacking them, their demands for opening the Strait would still include letting them charge a toll for passage, removing our sanctions on their oil, and pulling our forces out of the various bases we have in the Middle East. It'd be a strategic disaster for America and would, at the very least, cause a revolt amongst Congressional Conservatives.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
It really makes me wonder what Israel has on Trump to get him to completely destroy his legacy this way. Because legacy is everything to Trump and now his legacy is going to be that of one of the worst Presidents we ever had.
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u/HavingNuclear 22h ago
You have to remember that Trump's view of the legacy he's creating right now is not objective. He's getting all of his information from loyalists, people who are trying to manipulate him, and right wing news. That crafts a very different version of these events and for someone like Trump who - let's just say, thinks very highly of himself - things can still be looking pretty rosy.
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u/throwforthefences 22h ago edited 22h ago
I don't think Israel has anything on Trump, I think Netanyahu just knew how to manipulate him into starting the war. Everyone knew Trump wanted to get rid of Iran and that he was riding high off capturing Maduro, so he just had to come in with a plan that made it sound like a quick in-and-out, 20 minute adventure that was plausible enough to convince Trump. Throw in plenty of 'this will make you the greatest president ever' and that's probably all it took for Trump to trust Netanyahu over our own intelligence agencies. Frankly, I think he knew whatever plan he brought to Trump wouldn't work, but also that once the US started the war, there'd be few acceptable options for leaving that didn't end with regime change or something close to it.
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u/jason_sation 21h ago
I think, in Trump’s mind he’s already won because he has eliminated everyone who was plotting to assassinate him for the past 5ish years. I think you are right and this was war was partially started because of personal grievances.
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u/jason_sation 1d ago
If Trump hears this, he’s going to attack Israel.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
I honestly would not be surprised if that ends up happening, or at least if he tries it and gets refused by the generals, before this is all over. Trump is legendarily vindictive, if he really comes to understand just how badly Israel has fucked his legacy I could 100% see him deciding to attack in retaliation.
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u/tom_snout 1d ago
Exactly. And let’s add on to all that the ongoing and worsening fertilizer shortages that are a grim counterpart to the closure of the strait. Sharply higher food prices domestically and food crises in the third world are inbound and show every sign of being ugly ugly ugly. What a legacy for this clown car of administration.
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u/gregaustex 1d ago
If Iran really wants to make a deal why are they walking away form negotiations?
I have nothing but contempt for what I consider to be a uniquely inept and unprecedented morally bankrupt administration. That said, the answer to the above is that if you're not able to walk away, you're not actually negotiating. This isn't that unusual in a real negotiation.
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u/HavingNuclear 22h ago
The narrative from Trump isn't just that they want to make a deal but that they're desperate for a deal. And when you're desperate you definitely don't walk away as easily as Iran has been.
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u/ChipperHippo Classical Liberal 1d ago
It's telling to me that there are so few domestic sources of news that are trying to counter-argue the coming economic fallout. Gas prices are like crack to these news sites.
Further, for a country that likes to play bully ball with even its own allies, it's clear that America has very few cards to play. Drone warfare has changed the game and we're clearly caught with our pants down.
For once, I think all but the hardliners openly seem to agree. Iran has our balls in a vice grip on this one, and we openly offered them up.
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u/nycbetches 1d ago
Drone warfare has changed the game and we're clearly caught with our pants down.
Zelenskyy, he of “you don’t have any cards!”, has the last laugh here. Ukraine is keeping Russia at bay by using drone warfare. A more forward-thinking leader would’ve been curious about this and probed more into how Ukraine is successfully using drones, instead of berating its leader in the Oval Office.
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u/rwk81 13h ago
Iran has our balls in a vice grip on this one, and we openly offered them up.
Militarily they don't, but politically arguably they do, but only because the US public has no stomach for tolerating anything remotely uncomfortable regardless of how long it might last. Iran knows how soft the west is, and that we don't want our Starbucks prices to go up at all, very easy to cause political problems in the US.
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u/tom_snout 1d ago
The Art of the Deal in action, folks.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 1d ago
If Iran really wants to make a deal why are they walking away form negotiations?
Because the US cannot give them an actual end to the war unless it becomes willing to force Israel to stop their warmongering. And the US is not willing to do that. So the US simply is incapable of offering what Iran wants. Yes, the US is that powerless here. We can't even control our supposed "ally" even when doing so would be of major benefit to us.
And if Israel is willing to continue to engage in actions that directly harm us should we even still consider them an ally? Intentionally harming us is the action of enemy, not an ally.
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u/rethinkingat59 1d ago edited 1d ago
So obviously Iran is 100% still running Hamas and Hezbolla and still concerned about their condition even if it means putting the Iranian people in continued peril of death.
For some reason they care as much about the fight to rid the world of Israel as they do about their own country.
Puzzling, maybe the only popular political position they have left domestically.
But they are right this was isn’t near over, it may take far more destruction.
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u/VeraBiryukova 1d ago
I took a summer job on the west coast, so I’m already paying $5.00 to $5.20 per gallon instead of $4.00 to $4.30 like I was on the east coast. I can’t wait to pay $6 per gallon, or more!
On the bright side, absolute blue tsunami in November.
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u/flatline000 1d ago
Don't depend on it. Get out there and vote. And get your friends and family to vote.
If we screw this up, it'll be 100x worse.
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u/Toomster12489 1d ago
Incredible but also unsurprising that the "America First" politicians running the country care more about facilitating Israel's ethnic cleansing of southern Lebanon than they do about attempting to prevent the impending collapse of the global economy.
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u/Early-Possibility367 1d ago
It’s fun to watch how the PR team for this Iran War is basically making all the same mistakes of the PR team for Israel.
In a lot of ways, the PR team for the Iran War has it a lot easier. Firstly, the pro Palestinian side has done a good job of keeping the times when they were the clear good side in memory (eg the Nakba).
By the contrast, though the times of Iran being the good guys is in way more people’s living memory, it’s all but forgotten outside Iran.
Secondly, at baseline, well over 90% of Americans think Iran is evil. A supermajority of people already dislike Iran.
However, rhetoric wise, the right has been doing everything it can to make this war unpopular as possible .
The most obvious is Trump running on “no new wars.” Trump definitely knew about Iran’s nuclear program when he ran. He could’ve chosen to be honest about his beliefs on what the US should do about it, but he didn’t.
Secondly, the big stick the right has always used is “people who don’t support American/American allied war efforts are terrorist supporters.” And this is usually effective; see the above mentioned Israel Palestine conflict, but back to the first point, the President himself said no new wars at one point.
So, can one logically claim that it’s terrorist sympathizing to say the President should follow his own stated plan?
And lastly, the most shocking thing from a PR point was openly saying this war was to help Israel. I don’t have an explanation for that because I can’t explain it. Even if it’s true, I have no clue why DJT didn’t go for some sort of America First explanation, even if made up.
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u/absentlyric Economically Left Socially Right 5h ago
A percentage of Oil and products go through the strait, but not 100% and that includes oil. If it was completely cut off yes, it would raise prices, but not infinitely.
Meaning that once people got used to the new prices and the strait wasn't being used anymore, Iran won't have any cards left to play.
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u/FeistyAd477 39m ago
Les dirigeants actuels de l'Iran sont des extrémistes qui se fichent de leur population et sont prêts à lui imposer tous les sacrifices pour contrer un Président américain aventurier et incompétent.
Ils savent comment avoir sa peau et il n'est pas certain que Trump soit conscient de ce qui risque d'être pire qu'une défaite, c'est à dire une humiliation qui montrera au monde entier que l'Amérique est devenue une puissance aux pieds d'argile.
La Chine et la Russie attendent au coin du bois.
Pour redorer son image, Trump n'aura pas d'autre solution que s'attaquer aux faibles, c'est à dire Cuba après sa "grande victoire" au Venezuela. Quelle gloire.
Trump n'est qu'un baratineur patenté, digne des meilleurs camelots du concours Lépine qui fascine sa base MAGA comme des lapins pris dans les phares de la voiture. La chute sera dure.
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u/shaymus14 1d ago
The answer is because Iran's strategy is working.
They have been preparing for this war for decades and they know how to win it.
I'm not going to argue that this was a smart war or that things are going how the Trump administration wants them to, but in what world is Iran winning?
Their navy and air force have been significantly degraded. They don't have air superiority in their own country. It's been firmly established that the US and Israel can attack Iranian targets inside their borders and Iran can't stop them. Their neighbors are alienated. Their economy is in free fall, there's massive inflation in the country, millions have been laid off, and there are reportedly food and fuel shortages. Continued use of their best weapon, closure of the straight, would further alienate regional powers and likely lead to further blockade of Iranian shipping.
Even if Trump caves or this lasts till a Dem blowout in November, it's hard to see a scenario where the Iranian regime comes out of this is in a significantly strengthened position.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 23h ago
The world where Iran is able to continue carrying out their strategic objectives regardless of the US's and Israel's actions. And that world is this world. Yes, we've dropped a whole lot of expensive ordnance on Iran and killed a whole lot of civilians. That has done nothing to hamper their ability to carry out their strategic objective of squeezing the global economy until the US capitulates.
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u/mr_snickerton 23h ago
More importantly, what do we have to show for this "winning" in Iran? Okay, their pathetic Navy is at the bottom of the sea, whoopidy doopidy. Does absolutely nothing for us. Republicans still want us all to think Iran was on the brink of blowing us off the map (using the nuclear weapons Trump claims were all destroyed in strikes last year), but that's a complete fantasy.
Also, Iran has completely shut down Hormuz and has tolls on it now. Remind me, was that the case before the war? That doesn't seem like a degraded position at all, and it's making massive waves in global markets. Your argument seems incredibly weak given that
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u/Agitated_Pudding7259 Federal worker fired without due process 23h ago
The military degradation of Iran ≠ Iran is “losing” in the way that matters to U.S. domestic politics or to the strategic outcome.
This episode has demonstrated that Iran’s leverage over the Strait is not just theoretical. They have shown they can threaten major disruption to global energy flows, raise oil prices, strain shipping, and make the conflict economically painful for Americans anytime they damn well please.
Again, Iran does not need to defeat the U.S. militarily to make the war politically costly. It only needs to impose enough economic pain that the costs of the war begin to outweigh whatever gains the administration claims. That is a very real form of power.
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u/dr_sloan 22h ago
Iran’s Air Force has basically always been for show and no one expected them to seriously contest air superiority. They’ve built the strength of their military on missiles and drones and they’ve shown that they can continue launch operations even with the U.S. and Israel holding air superiority and, worse, that they’re missiles and drones are capable of piercing missile defenses and doing major damage.
I wouldn’t argue that they’re winning, but their strategy does appear to be working. The question is basically which sides economic damage will force them to accept a deal, and the Iranians aren’t in the position to protest their government and live.
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u/Tom18558 22h ago
Major damage? Where?
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u/dr_sloan 20h ago
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u/Tom18558 19h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_war
Per Iran: United States: 12+ radar and satellite systems destroyed or damaged
Seems rather minor to me (you can even look up the specific types of radar etc).
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u/dr_sloan 19h ago
The radars alone are worth multiple billions of dollars and that’s before you get into the aircraft destroyed on the ground. If you would like to characterize the damage done to the majority of bases in the Middle East as minor that’s your decision, but it’s not supported by the satellite imagery evidence.
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u/Tom18558 19h ago edited 18h ago
Wiki shows you the damage as per Iran.
Hence, it doesn't seem reasonable to assume more actual damage.
I think we just have a different take on minor/major. How would you call Iran's losses?
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u/dr_sloan 19h ago
I don’t care what Wikipedia says “per Iran”. We have actual satellite imagery showing major parts of bases completely burned out and reports that multiple bases have been evacuated. Iran’s losses have been major but that’s irrelevant since they still have plenty of their primary weapons, missiles and drones.
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u/Beautiful_Budget7351 23h ago
Iran and the United States have two different sets of goals:
United States:
Permanently shutdown Iran’s nuclear program
Reopen the Strait of Hormuz with no tolls to Iran or mines
Regime Change or get the regime to be Trump’s ally, like with Venezuela
Iran:
- Survive
That’s it. Iran’s only win condition is to continue to survive, while continuing to leverage the world economically with the Strait of Hormuz.
Despite all the things you mentioned, Iran continues to have the world economies over a barrel, and unless Trump’s administration is willing to send in ground forces, they won’t be able to achieve any of their goals.
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u/soboshka 22h ago
Did they ever actually negotiate in good faith? They want to continue making nuclear weapons while still funding various violent groups in various countries, these two are their nonnegotiables.
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u/nycbetches 20h ago
No, I don’t think they were ever negotiating in good faith, which begs the question: why has the US claimed to be negotiating with them for almost two months? Would seem to be a strategic blunder on the US’s fault; the delay has given the Iranians time to stock back up on weapons, dig out their missile launchers, etc.
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u/donnysaysvacuum recovering libertarian 15h ago
They are even talking about real estate deals. It would be funny if it weren't our country at stake.
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u/nevergirls here’s how Bernie can still win 1d ago
My only q is will the democrats be able to use this to their advantage and sweep the midterms
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u/MechanicalGodzilla 22h ago
The house? Probably. The Senate? No real chance. The one Senate seat they had a good shot at flipping, they decided to vote for Graham Platner just to spike the football at the 5 yard line.
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u/nycbetches 15h ago
Aren’t the odds of the Dems taking the Senate slightly above 50% on polymarket? It was last time I checked.
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u/BaudrillardsMirror 17h ago
Platner can still win, what's a cheating scandal when the president slept with and paid off a pornstar with campaign funds.
Texas is also in play with Paxton. Very early polling, but some has Talarico up. Probably still lean R, but if the environment stays hostile for republicans it's feasible. Apparently paxton's favorability is actually much worse than Cruz's was during Beto's close run.
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u/Interesting_Total_98 18h ago
Platner still has a good chance of winning. Jay Jones winning by 7 points in Virginia is proof that a scandalous Democrat can win, especially since that state is purple at the state level.
Americans cared more how badly Republicans have been hurting the country than Jones' personal issues, and it wouldn't be surprising if that happened in Maine with Platner.
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u/justafutz 21h ago
Why are we taking Iranian state media at its face when they are very clearly posturing?
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u/tom_snout 18h ago
It’s as impossible as taking the President at his word, because everybody knows he’s posturing
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u/justafutz 16h ago
No one is suggesting that either. Just weird to now see Iranian state propaganda taken at face value too.
We don’t have to take either Trump or Iranian propaganda at face value and uncritically. But a lot of the latter seems to be happening and I don’t see why we would do that.
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u/tom_snout 7h ago
Among Trump's extensive list of demerits, I find it a certain kind of dispiriting that when looking for accurate information about any given moment in the course of this war one has to wait for the Iranians to weigh in. The president's messaging is a shambolic mess of bluster, fantasy, and wishful thinking. He's made the information coming out of the white house some sort of functional equivalent to that from Tehran. Or as he'd put it, "winning."
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u/justafutz 2h ago
You don’t have to wait for Iranians to weigh in to get accurate information because the Iranians are not giving accurate information either. Again, we don’t have to believe either of them. To believe the Iranians are telling the truth is as ridiculous as to believe Trump is.
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u/tom_snout 1h ago
I hear that. But how many times thus far in this war have we heard the president furiously tweeting about an impending "deal" complete with all manner of Iranian concessions, only to learn some hours later from the Iranians that they'd never agreed to any such thing? It reads like Tehran fact-checking washington. Depressing to the core.
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u/albertnormandy 1d ago
By Thursday Trump will be saying that a deal is minutes away from being signed. By Saturday Iran will say “Not really”. By next Monday both sides will be pointing fingers at the other for the deal falling through. By Thursday…
All of this has happened before