This family tree focuses primarily on dragons (I tried to improve the quality, but it didn't work, to see it in good quality, see this). To structure it, I had to include the Light Realm as the origin of everything, and the reason I didn't add other elemental beings that also belong to this realm (such as slimes, hypostasis, and others) is because, as I mentioned at the beginning, the focus of this tree is mainly on dragons.

The downward lines mainly represent direct creations, but they can also indicate descent, origin (common ancestor), or species relationship:

• Wenut and Flying Serpents are an evolved form of the original Dendro Vishap.
• Saurians are an evolved form of the original Pyro Vishap. In this case, I decided to add the Stegosaurus, which may have been the Anemo Saurian (if it ever existed).
• All Hydro Vishaps and Aberrant Fontemer are direct descendants of the Fontemer, one of the first life forms born from the Primordial Sea.
• We know virtually nothing about the Cryo and Electro Sovereigns, but, as with the other elements, it is highly likely that the vishaps of those elements are also descended from the original sovereigns.

The broken lines pointing downwards represent an indirect relationship, which does not necessarily imply a direct creator-creation link. For example:

• Azhdaha did not create Kun Jun, he merely possessed his body momentarily.
• Aino used CL-11's Benevolent Core to create Ineffa.
• Sonnet and Canon did not directly create the Crimson Moon Dynasty or the Frostmoon Scions, respectively, but technically they are descended from them.

The broken lines to the side represent a reincarnation, while the normal side lines represent a kind of "transformation" (so to speak):

• Dvalin is the reincarnation of the original Anemo Sovereign.
• The Firstborn Firesprite may be a reincarnation of the original Pyro Sovereign, Xiuhcoatl.
• CL-11's Benevolent Core was used to create Ineffa.
• Columbina was originally born as the reincarnation of Canon, the original goddess of the Frostmoon.
• Neuvillette is the reincarnation of the original Hydro Sovereign.

I also want to clarify that this is my family tree, because I created it, obviously. It's based on my personal interpretation and what I understand from the hours of historical research I've done so far to write this post. So, if you disagree with something, that's perfectly fine, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.

Some points that often raise questions:

1. Dvalin as the reincarnated Anemo Sovereign: I won't go into much detail here because I already explained it in this post.
2. Firstborn Firesprite as a possible reincarnated Pyro Sovereign: There's no direct hint or confirmation that this is the case, but from my perspective, it's a fairly likely possibility. [?]
3. Azhdaha is the original Geo Sovereign. I won't go into detail about this either, because I already explained it here.
4. Although Egeria is not a dragon, she was born from the Primordial Sea and possessed a draconic nature, since she had the nobility of a dragon.
5. Yes, Nibelung was born from the Primordial Sea.

At that time, the primeval dragon nurtured by the perfumed sea sailed deep into the skies, disappearing into the mists among the stars.

That said, any questions are welcome, and if you need a more detailed explanation on any point, don't hesitate to ask. Let me know if I missed a character, I'm sure there's another important dragon I forgot.

The guy who found Bennett and anyone else that was involved in transferring him to Mondstadt... Were they not aware of what happens to Natlanese individuals when they depart from Natlan?? Surely it was common knowledge already. How in God's name does the Adventurer's Guild let an orphan NATLANESE child outside of Natlan???😭✌️ As if that wasn't bad enough, no-one EVER knew or told Bennett he's from there??? Did he NEVER ask??? This is beyond a plot hole atp, it's like part of the plot being blown off the timeline by Venti

This is an updated dragon family tree (I hope it looks good).

EDIT: No, it doesn't look good, so here's the link.

To structure it, I had to include the Light Realm as the origin of everything, and the reason I didn't add other elemental beings that also belong to this realm (such as slimes, hypostasis, and others) is because the focus of this tree is mainly on dragons.

The downward lines mainly represent direct creations, but they can also indicate descent, origin (common ancestor), or species relationship:

• Wenut and Flying Serpents are an evolved form of the original Dendro Vishap.

• Saurians are an evolved form of the original Pyro Vishap. In this case, I decided to add the Stegosaurus, which may have been the Anemo Saurian (if it ever existed).

• All Hydro Vishaps and Aberrant Fontemer are direct descendants of the Fontemer, one of the first life forms born from the Primordial Sea.

• We know very little or almost nothing about the Cryo and Electro Sovereigns (I'm hoping that Thundersoother's Beast of Thunder is the Electro Sovereign), but, as with the other elements, it's highly likely that the vishaps of those elements are also descended from the original sovereigns.

The broken lines pointing downwards represent an indirect relationship, which does not necessarily imply a direct creator-creation link. For example:

• Azhdaha did not create Kun Jun, he merely possessed his body momentarily.

• Aino used CL-11's Benevolent Core to create Ineffa.

• Sonnet and Canon did not directly create the Crimson Moon Dynasty or the Frostmoon Scions, respectively, but technically they are descended from them.

The broken lines to the side represent a reincarnation, while the normal side lines represent a kind of "transformation" (so to speak):

• Dvalin is the reincarnation of the original Anemo Sovereign.

• The Firstborn Firesprite may be a reincarnation of the original Pyro Sovereign, Xiuhcoatl.

• CL-11's Benevolent Core was used to create Ineffa.

• Columbina was originally born as the reincarnation of Canon, the original goddess of the Frostmoon.

• Neuvillette is the reincarnation of the original Hydro Sovereign.

I also want to clarify that this is my family tree, because I created it, obviously. It's based on my personal interpretation and what I understand from the hours of historical research I've done so far to write this post. So, if you disagree with something, that's perfectly fine, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.

Some points that often raise questions:

1. The Snowland Fae were forged upon the bones of "giant beasts", it's possible that the bones of these beasts correspond to those of the Cryo Sovereign.

2. Dvalin as the reincarnated Anemo Sovereign. I won't go into much detail here because I already explained it in this post.

3. Firstborn Firesprite as a possible reincarnated Pyro Sovereign. There's no direct hint or confirmation that this is the case, but from my perspective, it's a fairly likely possibility. (?)

4. Azhdaha is the original Geo Sovereign. I won't go into detail about this either, because I already explained it here.

5. Although Egeria is not a dragon, she was born from the Primordial Sea and possessed a draconic nature, since she had the nobility of a dragon.

6. In the last AQ, we learned that the Irminsul existed before the arrival of the HP. In the age of the dragons, the Irminsul was the first fern to sprout in Apep's court.

7. Although Rukkhadevata and Nahida aren't dragons, they are manifestations of the Irminsul, and therefore possess a draconic nature. This may explain the shape of their ears. I would like to think that Rukkhadevata was a vessel created by Naberius for the Irminsul after being modified by the HP, giving her the duty of protecting the tree, something similar to Egeria with the Primordial Sea.

8. Yes, I still believe that Nibelung was born from the planet covered by the Primordial Sea.

Basically cases where the fandom misunderstands certain things when theyre wrong, like "Orobashi is the Electro Sovereign"

Also explain the reasoning why its wrong.

The two sovereigns who once stood at the apex of the aberrant species of the Fontemer — “Emperor of Fire and Iron” and “Millennial Pearl Seahorse” — are metaphors for Phanes and Nibelung.

Emperor of Fire and Iron : Phanes is basically a hermit crab, since he lives in someone else’s home without permission.

Millennial Pearl Seahorse : Nibelung may have the “Genesis Pearl.”

New, to reddit, hopefully this gets posted without any issues

Some background lore first:

- Per lore from 5.8-6.0, it seems that the original 3 moons were created by Nibelung prior to his departure from Teyvat. A bunch of leftover building material became Nod-Krai (possibly called Niflheim by the Dragons)

- Per Ineffa's weapon, the moons were inhabited by Wills/AI (likely made by Nibelung)

- After Phanes conquered Teyvat and imprisoned Xiuhcoatl, Kukulkan led the "Lunar Reconstruction Project" hoping to use the leftover materials to build a 4th moon. However this project was halted after Nibelung returned and started the Funerary Year war.

- After the Funerary Year, human refugees from Hyperborea settled the abandoned Lunar Reconstruction facility and became the Frostmoon Scions

Some Thoughts from above

- As Columbina is related to moons, she is likely draconic in nature

- As Columbina is not a physical moon itself, she is possibly a "Will" that was intended to inhabit a moon.

- So why is Columbina human-appearing despite possibly being a Dragon AI?

Theory

- Kukulkan has already experimented with dragon-human hybrids, like Och-Kan

- Och-kan's human form seemed unstable, as he was slowly turning back to a dragon as he aged

- Kukulkan may have returned to Nod-krai after creating Och-Kan and continued working on the Lunar Reconstruction project, and given the 4th Moon "Will/AI" an improved human form (Columbina)

- The logic behind Och-Kan/Columbina's human forms is that it makes it easier to convince humans, while vishaps/dragons follow regardless due to the vishap's ability to instinctively detect senior dragons

- The idea of Kukulkan singing a lullaby to Columbina is extremely silly.

For a game with such extremely large amount of lore such as Genshin, the fact that we know nothing of Citlali’s immortality or her origins is pretty suspicious. The reason is simple: her species will be relevant in the future and they don’t want to spoil it yet. During act 3 of the Natlan Archon quest, she says "I live longer than humans”, seemingly confirming the fact that her immortality is not the reason of a curse, but the fact that she belongs to a different species.

Also, I got prodded into making a dragon glazing subreddit. If that tickles your fancy, r/SovereignCentral is that way.

I needed to get this off my chest because honestly what the hell

Why haven’t we ASKED the age old question about WHY they left behind THEIR CAPTAIN? Or not even that but why haven’t we even thought of him? Varka mentioned Diluc’s dad, like, like, bro you could have gone a BIT deeper from there!

Dearly Barbatos-beloved he is “The King of Genshin Lore” for a reason and I yearn

If they go back to Mondstadt and all and don’t interact with Kaeya or mention him whatsoever I’m going to start TWEAKING

Pls see that this is still a meme/shit post btw

Fontaine's story has several Biblical references (the great flood, people born with sin), just like Sumeru had numerous Hinduism and Buddhism references.

I think this will extend thematically too - Focalors will die for Fontaine's sins and absolve her people. This is what the trailer line refers to as well: the Archon part (I agree with the split Furina theories) and the gnosis will be sacrificed after she takes the "blame" for the sins of Fontainians. Furina (remaining, mortal creature part) will then ascend and gain a vision.

If I am lucky, we might get a dramatic resurrection too.

POST QUEST EDIT: AYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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my final takes...yes, I can argue them with evidence, but...

I give up bro it's too much (more like too little to work with) not worth it, cause not even confirmed.

making any kind of timeline for this damn game universe is just not it

imagine a very complex flow chart that's just a misshaped spiderweb that's what they would be like

idek

how couldn't I find anyone/thing that is 200 though? What an dumb gap. Everyone between 400-300 are more like 400, it's just I didn't have room to stack them. Same with the 2 stacks over 500. But the orders are rightish, it's still oldest to youngest just in the same century. Then the others are obviously thousands of years apart maybe. Yeah, it's confusing because canonically, it is, also, confusing. Well no, not confusing, just like, not said point blank.

"Venti is probably older tho we don't know how long he was a wind dude." You could say that about anyone, okay. Like Morax descended 6000 years ago, he could of been living in the sky for eons, how should I know, leaf me alone, it's just a mess. Let's just say they all are AT LEAST these ages.

I play Lantern Rite now.

Edit/update: I originally posted this before the end of current Lantern Rite, I get Neuvillete is thousands of years old, thanks for the spoiling, but this was a meme weekend post anyway. I didn’t mean to make a fuss. Relaxxx.

Prior to 5.1's release, there was a lot of speculation surrounding what Il Capitano's role would be in Natlan's Archon Quest. Then the actual Natlan Archon Quest drops, and we learn that The Captain was a former commander in Khaenri'ah who survived the Cataclysm and was taken in by Natlan. Feeling indebted, Capitano considered the nation to be a second home and to some extent, dedicated himself to preventing its destruction.

However, there's a few pieces of information scattered across Natlan that raise a few eyebrows to this explanation of The Captain's motivations. As another post on this subreddit pointed out, it is unlikely that Mavuika forgot someone who is likely to be the only absurdly powerful Khaenri'ahn that fought for Natlan 500 years ago. We must also consider the Harbinger with "black fur" described by the Saurians caged in the Phlogiston Extraction Research Center. Although people assumed that Capitano wasn't as righteous as he appeared and had visited the center with Ororon...the events of the Archon Quest show that it's very unlikely that either Capitano or Ororon would partake in such unethical research, with their "partnership" being as shaky as it is.

I believe that the logic and evidence points to the fact that every line of dialogue "Capitano" has said in the game is a lie, and the Harbinger we have met in Natlan is not actually The Captain. Taking this a step further, the true identity of this harbinger is...Il Dottore. Hear me out.

First of all, why Dottore? Starting simple, this imposter was running the research center in which the Fatui were conducting experiments on the Saurians, something which seems much more in line with Dottore given his interest in capturing the Aranara and known lack of ethical standards. Running around in disguise isn't something new to Dottore. As you know, he deceived the inhabitants of Tatarasuna by making himself appear as a researcher from Fontaine named Escher, with an interesting point being that the game implies he only manipulated people's cognitions to make them perceive him as the researcher. He probably used something similar to project the Fatui Troops that Aether and Dehya followed in 3.2.

There is also the fact that our fake "Capitano" did still trade blows with the God of War in the arena. The imposter's strength must be at least be on par with that of an Archon, and Nahida explicitly told us that the upper three Fatui Harbingers were capable of contending with gods. However, the most damning piece of evidence comes from what's in Capitano's pants;

The exact same shade of blue and the exact same pattern are engraved in their pants. This design choice may be MiHoyo's way of hinting that the "Capitano" we've met in the Natlan Archon Quests is actually Dottore. But for now, let's move on to "Capitano" himself.

You may have noticed my excess usage of "quotation marks", which leads me to explain what they are. Quotations, or quotation marks are primarily used to highlight references or specific words/sentences in writing. HOWEVER, they can also be used to cast doubt to the phrase or emphasize sarcasm and irony, which brings me to the single biggest piece of evidence as to why "Capitano" isn't actually Capitano.

Every other Harbinger we have met until Capitano (we don't talk about the deserter) has used their title for dialogue, be it Childe, The Knave, or The Doctor. But Capitano? His dialogue in Natlan has quotation marks around his title of The Captain, casting doubt onto the legitimacy of his identity.

As for the identity of the individual from Natlan who accompanied the Harbinger with black fur to the Phlogiston Research Center? I have no idea. But consider all the evidence I have provided in this post. "Capitano" apparently oversaw an unethical research facility with quotation marks around his title and wears the exact same pattern Dottore has on his pants. There is literally no other explanation this, Natlan's true Harbinger is The Doctor.

edit: I'm just going to go on record and say it's meme weekend

When I heard that not only were we going to get an entire new area chock full of lore, but also an interlude to the Archon Quests for this update, I was super pumped up, y'all.

But of cooourse, hecking Cognosphere had to ruin all of it.

Ever since I picked up this game back when I was a careless and wee little lad (1 year ago), I always had a burning question in my mind. Where are the toilets? With great anticipation, I awaited every single update, thinking one day my questions were finally gonna be answered. Spoiler alert: They never were.

In their infinite wisdom, Mihoyo kept on releasing more and more boring, unimportant Archon quests and horrible, horrible sidequests. The breaking point for me personally was the Inazuma Archon quest. I thought Ei was gonna teach me more about toilets in her Plane of Euthymia. But of course Cognosphere had to ruin it. Where's my important toilet lore, Mihoyo? Wei? Yu-peng chen?

Man, this version was the biggest arrow to my now aching knee. I was all like, "Yes, we're gonna get to a region unmonitored by the Gods! Maybe these byakuyahakuyachakuyalakuya fuckers discovered what a fucking toilet is!" BUT NOOO! INSTEAD Mihognosphere had to make some horrible horrible lore about Celestia and the creation of the world from some egghead, and some lore about a fucking hiss hiss piss piss snake god asshole or something!!

So I was like, you know, maybe the Archon Interlude quest will have some delightful toilet lore, right? Maybe they'll explain how the Jade Chamber's toilet system is created right? Surely Mimikoyo is never gonna give me up, right?

Right?

Ningguang, baby girl, sis, buddy, amigo, supposedly you are the smartest person in all of Liyue. To the point where even getting a single question answered by you is the perfect reward for some, for the Jade Chamber contest. Surely you, in your infinite megamind wisdom and smarts, will finally explain toilet lore, right? Since you're oh so smart and great after all?

But bitch, you know what? You aren't smart. You aren't great. You are just some they bitch. You wanna know why?

BECAUSE THE FUCKING JADE CHAMBER HAS NO TOILETS!!! WHY??? WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE NO TOILETS IN YOUR LITTLE PEEPEE PISSPISS TAXPAYER FUNDED ASSHOLE UFO???? SPACE CONSTRAINTS??? ESPECIALLY WHEN BITCH YOU CAN JUST INSTALL A VENT IN THE JADE CHAMBER AND AIRDROP YOUR SHIT TO THE GROUND????

HOMIHOYO, WEI PENG CHEN,THIS IS FINALLY IT!!! I FUCKING QUIT!! FUCK YOU GUYS AND I HOPE YOUR ENTIRE STUDIO HAS THEIR TOILETS CLOGGED UP OR SOMETHING!

First time posting here, don't know if it's a spoiler but I will talk a bit about the last archon quest

I m usually only lurking so you don't know me but I'm one of those huge fan of Benny (cuz he is the best boy) and what I think is :

Bennett has the pyro gnosis in him/with him and he doesn't even know it (or something like that)

Skirk says that the gnosis is an item of MISFORTUNE, now tell me, who is known to be the UNLUCKIEST person in Teyvat ? That's right Benny boy !! And maybe since he is a human (or is he ?) the impact of the gnosis is greater on him. Not to mention where he is from as well !

Okay that's it thanks for reading it, merry christmas everyone *kiss* *kiss*

Not sure if the flair's right but this works too

I wonder, considering how the voyagers are supposed to just sit back and record civilisations being destroyed, They must have known about Phanes’s home world, and they watched it getting destroyed

so imagine how Phanes must have felt when the voyager came and made the angles rebel against him, destroying his peace,

These alien basterds sat back and watched as his people were dying, as their cities were reduced to complete ruin, how they didn’t intervene when everything he ever loved was reduced to ash and dust,

And yet…and yet, NOW they wanna act the hero now, after Phanes had finally found a safe haven for mankind, now suddenly they wanna get involved,

It would be very interesting if the voyage in the deep gallery set, is the same one who refused to save Phanes’s home

It would be very interesting indeed,

Hear me out! Don't get fooled by miHoyo, Columbina is a red herring, she is presented to be the new moon but in reality, she is not! In fact, Columbina probably is a moon remnant that failed to become a true moon before and now she is trying to take the lunar seat by force with the help of the Frostmoon tribe. Best she can be is a servant that's why she is introduced as the moon maiden, not the moon goddess.

Paimon in the other hand she breathes the moon, everything in her screams the moon, her wings (or cape), her unique triquetra, her eyes (starry full moon), her outfit that looks like the pillar of the lunar palace, her constellation effects that represent fate (which was woven by the moon sisters)... Everything indicates that Paimon will ascend in Nod-Krai to her true and legitimate position and she will rise as the new moon of the world of Teyvat.

(Like Celestia and the Archons, Paimon will probably let Columbina rule in her stead)

I get these little thoughts all the time but either don’t have the will or brain juice to make a post on here about them. For example:

I honestly think Iansan was originally written to have a much greater role in the early development of Nathan’s AQ but her character got subsumed into Kachina and then they didn’t really know what to do with her after that.

What about you all?

Okay, hear me out. We know that Scaramouche is no longer affiliated with the harbringers and we also know that the 6th position is vacant for some time and it is unlikely they just leave it vacant. So Hoyo could either make a new character for it(the lame option) or make an existing character take its place and among all the characters, Collei has uncanny similarities with Scaramouche and would make sense if she took his place plus the idea is hilarious if it happens so im making this meme theory. Here are some similarities I can think of.

- Collei was experimented on by Dottore for the better part of her life(like scaramouche)

- Collei was to be a vessel for divine power(like scaramouche)

^Collei has her divine powers sealed while Scara has depleting divine powers. Collei's demon god powers have some connection to what scara used on the traveler

- Collei wandered outside her home country looking for meaning in her life(like scaramouche)

- Collei saw her companions die off and swore to not reach out to anyone but was changed due to her interactions with mondstadt(like scaramouche but with nahida and traveler)

- Collei uses rukkhashava mushrooms and praxis books(like scaramouche)

- Collei has *allegedly* seen irminsul through visions(still unsure as this plot hasnt happened yet)(also like scaramouche)

- Collei has been to the Abyss(like scaramouche)

- Colleis passive is flying/gliding related while Scaramouche is all about flying gameplay wise

- Scaramouches passive decreases mora spent ascending catalyst and bows(Collei uses bow)

- Collei is one of the few characters officially shown with the aranara that isnt traveler or nahida; the other being scaramouche (Im really not sure about this one tbh since there could be other official art of other characters with aranara that im not remembering)

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- Okay idk about this one but Collei's passive skill looks kinda similar to Scaramouches passive skill

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- This is the real kicker tho. In the Teyvat Chapter Interlude Teaser: A Winter Night's Lazzo, Hoyo revealed all the harbringers EXCEPT Scaramouche which hints him not being a harbringer anymore. BUT you know who they DID show in the trailer? Thats right

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Now the question would be-Collei hates the fatui, why would she join them. Well its simple. Dottore will simply use the Fatui activation chip he implanted on her when she was being experimented obviously(Or he just breaks her seal and have some way to control the demon god)

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Thank you for reading my shitpost conspiracy. Now make way for the new Lord Harbringer Collei-The Saladeer

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Edit: Thank you to u/sandmanzlf for pointing the first one out

-Wanderers banner card is "From Ashes Reborn" While Colleis is "Sprout of Rebirth"

-Also another thought came to my mind; Remember how Scaramouche was depicted as a cat in the 3.3 Interlude quest? You know who else is very cat related with her constellation even being a cat? Bruh I cant make this shi up now.

someday i’ll finish a proper analysis post for this sub but until then it’s the weekend so have some more ordoslop❤️

parts 1 & 2

meme sub version (for archival purposes)