r/zen • u/[deleted] • Mar 14 '18

Huang Po: Motionless Mind

Not til your thoughts cease their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.

  • Huang Po
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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

The problem is that Huangbo was almost totally against zazen. People use his quotes here all of the time to show everyone how wrong they are for believing in the effectiveness of zazen.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

He’s not against Zazen, he’s against attachment to the practice of sitting dhyana.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

I hear you, but it sure didn't seem that way when I read On Transmission of Mind.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Remember, Huangbo had a particular audience in mind when he gave sermons. These people that he talked to all engaged in meditation, took up precepts, and were basically all Buddhist monks. Huangbo is an iconoclast, definitely, but even the great patriarch Huineng advocated for zazen. So i'd be careful when saying that Huangbo disparages zazen in this case.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Not sure if you remember this, but a while back I wrote an original thread on Huangbo's On Transmission of Mind after reading it. I pulled two paragraphs about Huangbo extolling the virtues of zazen and mindfulness practice, and some of the people in the community here tore me to shreds! People were pissed, saying that I found only what I wanted to see about zazen and ignoring the rest. Perhaps that is where this tainted view of mine comes from! Now explain that to me.

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u/Healthspin independent Mar 14 '18

It sounds like at first you didn't have a solid ground to stand on with respect to Huangbo.
So your impression changed according to what other people said and shared. Now, when you share your new understanding, it is again challenged and changed.
The only common denominator I see is taking words for meaning, rather than digging for direct experience. Don't you see? Huangbo would slap you if he saw you searching for his pennies on the ground.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

You are totally right with all of the points you've shared here. I was brand new to Huangbo, and it was the first book that I've ever read on him so it is really tough to figure out the proper stance on the matter. It seemed like most of the book was against the attachment to zazen. It can be really hard to stand on your own with the community mostly against a point you may bring out, and I'm here to learn but it can be tough. Thanks for pointing this out.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18 edited Dec 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

That makes sense.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Thirdhand authority is problematic without firsthand experience.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Are you trying to say I don't have firsthand experience?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

It is not black-and-white, peachblossom, it's a matter of degree.

The more personal experience a person has, the better he is able to judge these stories.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

LMAO, thank you, rosebud!

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

I did not compliment you, I told you that your logic is simplistic.

It's like you surround yourself with a protective membrane of bullshit. This membrane also interferes with communication.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

What I said was known as "sarcasm".

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

The POINT here is that instead of addressing my point (about the limits of your logical strategy), you ignored it, and you addressed the apparent slur instead.

Goddamn.

See, this is what happens when you eat too much bullshit. In time you can no longer tell the difference. This is why we can't have nice conversations.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

So you are saying that I should somehow change myself in order to suit your needs better? Also, why would I bother answering anything you ask me when you think "I'm eating bullshit"? If you throw offensive things like that around, chances are pretty good that you aren't going to listen anyway and I'm wasting my time.

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