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And in camel, no less. 🙏

Okay so here it is.

I (32M) called out my vegan friend (33F) on her food ethic.

For context, i am a chef. I value food and products very much. I only eat and cook products of season and locals. I hunt and fish myself, have my own garden and only go to locals farmers/productors for the extra stuff i can't produce myself. I know it's not something everyone can do, and i don't judge people who have different food habit, or eating industrial food.

Today i invited my friends for brunch. I cooked for everyone, some have allergies, some have restrictions like being vegan. So I cooked a shitload of different meals to please everyone, and tell everyone that they can leave with all the left over they wanted.

Fast foward, we eating and having a great time. one of my vegan friend, let's call her Jessy, start saying that it was unacceptable to have meat (dog and cat that i hunted myself) one the table when i knew that some of us where vegan. I thought nothing of it and simply said i cooked for everyone. She claim i didn't think of everyone, that there weren't even avocados, which is "famously" her favorite.

I kind of lost it. It's all kind of blurry right now, but i said something along the lines of "Oh fuck off. You're being hypocrite. You don't want an animal to suffer, but you eat fucking avocados like there is no tomorrow, you don't want a dog to suffer but it's okay that entire community in Mexico are suffering for your fucking avocados toast?" Then i continue on explaining how avocados are one of the worst industries and that she is hypocrite for choosing to see some issues and ignoring others. (I won't explain it all here but look it up if that interest you, it's a fucked up industries.) At the end, Jessy was standing there, cold and distant.

This is where i might be the asshole. Should i have said nothing? As you have guessed by now, food ethic is a big part of my life. But this killed the vibe of the brunch (obviously), and now most of my friends are taking Jessy side, texting me i shouldn't have teached a grown ass woman in front of everyone... they almost all still leave with the left over though. Lol

P.S. I am sure i was more rude than what i sound in the post, here's why i think i might be the asshole.

Synopsis: a 40 year-old lovable loser has never eaten meat. His charismatic and healthy co-workers find out and make it their mission to help him finally experience real food. Mishaps and mayhem ensue, and our hero eventually learns that it’s ok to be vegan, but it’s wayyyy better to be normal.

Rated: PG-13 (depictions of the results of extreme animal abuse)

I have linked at least seven studies to prove the dangers of such, particularly in regards to western veganism, already disproving everything you’ve said. Your one study isn’t going to disprove seven. Furthermore, one of mine completely debunked your claims. The same study also stated that benefits of plant based diets, vegetarians, and vegan health was drawn from numbers of Seventh Day Adventists, and Buddhist monks. I hate to break it to you, but Seventh Day Adventists… typically align with MAGA. Not only that, but religious groups aren’t typically the best to pull data from. The preferred is general population, across many races, religions, cultures, etc. so as it stands, the claims could be that being a Seventh Day Adventist or a Taiwanese Buddhist Monk leads to lower rates of cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. Right? But parroting the same line over and over, when it’s not exactly precise, nor aligns with your source… really helps your credibility, and the claim that veganism is rooted in science, and NOT anti science. I even linked studies supporting veganism. Maybe you’re a little too thick to understand. Here, we’ll prove it: “TMAO has been implicated in various (cardio)vascular diseases and is a potential contributing factor in colorectal cancer.” Soooo… it sounds like you cherry picked, and decided your own information. Sure would hate for me to dig into the article more, because this is just from the abstract. Oh! How funny, one of the smallest sample sizes yet! Since you’ve transcended, I’m sure you can tell the class why sample sizes and demographics matter. But comparing health benefits of less than 700 people (vegans) to almost 20,000 isn’t an even playing field. While the authors made a large stink of variety in the dataset, pulling data from individuals in Italy, the UK, the US. The large majority of data comes from the US, with like 70 people from some random countries brought in. I see this as more of a potential for outlier data and an inaccuracy of data. My initial comment was about a raw food vegan, whose child ended up with rickets. A piece, published by the University of Sydney, in which it states that animal-based diets reduce infant mortality, and child mortality, however this sounds more like an outtake of other research. Furthermore, while aiming to prove the point of veganism. Best they could say was that they studied the population of 100 countries, which countries had more plants in the diet, and which countries ate more meat. They said that countries that ate more plants, and had a more plant-based diet, lived longer. Which isn’t exactly definitive, it’s a vagueness more than anything. So looking into it more, it’s actually pretty well known. In low to middle class income (LMIC) families, animal products provide essential nutrients for all facets of development in children. Which can be translated as, LMIC may not have the education, time, ability to accurately supplement all nutritional needs with a plant based diet; when cheaper, more available, and excellent sources of particular needed nutrients are available. Again, we’re talking about western veganism, particularly the US. Everyone’s poor. Everyone is about to be priced out of everything. We were set up to fail. Interesting… it’s… it’s almost as if the large majority of the American diet is based on plants, with 30% of such is based on animal products. Not even just… “corpses.” This one’s just another article on animal products supporting the growth and development of children. And another thing, reading into your post history. I want to address mental health associations with veganism. Here, the NHS talking about guidelines and recommendations of refeeding in eating disorder patients. Interestingly enough, it was suggested that veganism is a symptom of a disorder, rather than a dietary/lifestyle choice. Not to mention the already established correlation with anxiety and depression. I really hope you’re seeing the professionals you need to, as this sounds like a bigger issue than Reddit’s paygrade. Splitting while talking/being around these topics doesn’t sound or even seem healthy, nor does it sound like a healthy relationship with food. Most of your comments felt reminiscent of some of the worst mental health crisis’s I’ve ever seen, so I am saying this sincerely, please reach out if you need resources, clearly I love finding things. I leave most sleeping dogs lie, but I’ve had time today. But seriously, and genuinely, you do not sound well, your post history indicates much worse. So cussing, screaming, calling people names, quoting one study, and claiming every study I’ve linked is paid off by corpse eaters, doesn’t help your claim that veganism is rooted in science. You. Are. Not. Well. This is not normal or mentally well behavior. Claiming to know my life off of my experience, is not mentally well behavior. Please seek help, call your therapist, psychiatrist, or get one. If insurance is an issue, I am more than happy to help you navigate. Throughout all this, my claim has been the same. Veganism is not rooted in science. Association with religious groups, no matter how long, does not support that it is rooted in science, quite the obvious really. Most of what I’ve said is and asked is concise language and informed consent. If western vegans were aware of nutritional deficiencies, and issues with the supplement industry, then that is the choice they need to make in their life. If the risks are known, go for it. But I’m not going to sit here and parrot that animal based diets are horrible, when they are some of the most accessible sources for essential nutrients, ESPECIALLY when children are involved. Anecdotally, I’ve always thought fad diets were more of a symptom of an eating disorder than anything. But if your main claim to support that the diet is rooted in science is data from religious groups… boy do I have news for you. We cannot reliably count on Americans to balance plates when the vast majority are functionally illiterate. In a perfect world where everyone had access to information and were literate, and crops were incentivized, then yes! Veganism is an excellent choice, and we should all strive towards it. But unfortunately, we don’t. Not everything is black and white. Not everyone has perfectly functioning bodies. Not everyone has knowledge and access. Not everyone is mentally healthy. Furthermore, many groups pushing this information… aren’t great. They may appeal to you, and a soft heart. But their ethics are to be disputed. Because when you ask them what the end goal is, they clam up. The end goal is absolutely no domestication. None. With no advocacy of conservation efforts. I assure you, I’m also for the betterment of animal welfare. But ending all domestication, ending conservation efforts is unfeasible, not to mention disgusting. I’m not going to bring up a particular group’s euthanasia rate, as that seems like a low blow. But I will bring up chickens!! Sometime last year, in California, the judge threw the book at an individual who stole 4 chickens from a poultry farm where she worked. But I really want to talk about the moving parts and the context of why what they did really sucked. So the chicken they stole, was a Cornish cross. A very heavy hybrid bird, yes they do grow too big to support themselves. Yes, they do grow rapidly. But let’s think… the faster and bigger a bird grows, the less suffering and less slaughter will have to be done. While advantageous in a capitalistic setting, it’s also reducing the number of slaughter to meat produced, and instead of a year timeline, it’s now 12 to 18 weeks. So when an individual steals an animal that isn’t compatible with life beyond a young age, with no plan to mitigate or euthanize, just keep as a pet. What was the point? Because now we have subjected 4 animals to prolonged suffering for absolutely no reason. Or we can talk about the ostrich case. The government demand the flock to be euthanized, and these people are “fighting,” to keep them alive. Ahhhh but there’s the fine print… the owners just want more money per bird. Not exactly want to keep their babies alive. They pose an extreme risk to all birds. It sucks. But instead of a mass extinction event, one flock can just take the hit.

I've got a genius idea, everyone! Let's reclaim the "peace sign" that people make with their hands to mean Vegan! Get it? It's like a V! So we can go around showing each other the peace sign to symbolize that we're vegan. And this way, if you give someone a peace sign and they give it back, but aren't vegan, we can be like "HA! I got you! You're VEGAN now!!" and there's nothing they can do about it.

This is praxis.

i eat meat. i am vegan. do not judge me

Suppose someone never expresses hate for gays and lesbians in private, but participates in hate speech in a public setting e.g. a party, a podcast or a talk show where people argue that homosexuality is a disease. Can they still claim to be LGBQT friendly?

My thinking is the main goal is to not financially aid institutions that harm gays and lesbians. But if your presence at an event does not alter the amount of harm to gays and lesbians, then you can make some hateful comments about gays and lesbians.

Some caveats:

• Obviously you cant organize the event yourself

• You dont participate beyond what is already planned e.g. if someone asks you to shout white, normal, hetero you refuse to do so. You only join when others start.

WDYT?

From nearly a million tiny little murders a year just a decade ago to only 100,000 teeny tiny little murder wurders last year, this poor poor industry is completely and udderly (yes you can milk them!) failing. Can't we get some government subsidies to keep breeding these cute little minky winkys into existence? What will we do?? Vegan for the fashion, btw.

I wouldn’t call maple secretions part of a good breakfast but hey you do you

Catch me eating dyed corn syrup the way vegan God intended 💪

no but see it’s absolutey hilarious! the small rodents are kept confined to a cage lol then they’re given a wheel to run in so they can get exercise instead of dying from captivity or having their human actually do some responsible supervised outside time lol and then the one animal jumps in with the other lol and then the force & speed of the combined movement starts spinning the wheel faster & more powerfully lol then the one animal falls out lol and the other just gets stuck lol and they have to keep running & running to keep up with the wheel they’re trapped in lol and when they get too exhausted and collapse lolol they’re still stuck in the wheel lol so now they’re spinning around upside down at violent speeds lol and they can’t stop lol and the wheel keeps spinning lol and then their cellmate is concerned lol like animals have feelings lol and they try to save their friend lol but when they jump in lol the wheel is still spinning lol and so they have to keep running lol which makes the terror wheel the other is trapped in go even faster lololol and then the one who jumped in is having to try not to trample on the loved one they’re wanting to save lol only lolol their compassionate brave efforts are making it worse lolol so they’ll jump out again for a moment lol and they’re staring in horror as their loved one is still trapped lol and this has been going on for minutes lolol and the hero tries several more times lol they just keep making it worse lolololol and so they’re both panicking and experiencing sheer terror lol and sometimes they’re both stuck in the wheel lol and the one can’t jump out because they’re terrified and exhausted lol and it’s still going on minutes later lolol they just keep spinning around and around and around, unable to escape lolololol don’t you see how that funny that is?!?!?! lolololololol animal suffering is hilarious!!!!!!!

I’ve started by refusing to let this guy Kyle that I know participate in veganism. He’s given everything up but cheese so I keep telling him how much I miss that in particular. But listen, he’s, like, really, really annoying. The vegetarians can keep him. By God, I’ll make sure of it.

so my local police department was holding an evidence locker sale to raise money to buy more tear gas, and while i was there i managed to cop a sweet new jacket made of 100% tanned human skin, really makes me look like cool biker chick meets Buffalo Bill (who isn’t trans btw >:( ). Problem is, every time i wear my cool new jacket out, people scream and run away, or even call me a murderer! these self-righteous vegans are really pissing me off, i literally got this secondhand!!

Inspired by u/h3ll0kitty_ninja

I visit my local cosmetic surgical facility for my daily injection of synthetic vegan nutrition and procedures for the most natural look possible.

Purely for aesthetic purposes.

Hi everybody I just was pondering something today, I know you're all leading busy lives and don't have time to wrestle with this kind of deep philosophical revelation, but it has occurred to me lately that people, not just butchers and livestock lickers, but absolutely every fucking body hates vegans. Some say it's because we don't have wings and can't fly away whenever we need to escape the smells of meaty people belching and farting but I also wondered if maybe it has something to do with-- hear me out-- vegans making them look like bloody fucking assholes by comparison. Do you think that maybe they feel bad because they murder innocent babies trapped in cages and we choose not to? Surely this can't be good for veganism. So, it's only up to us to make veganism look less demeaning to people who pay wage slaves to deforest the planet, collapse the oceans air and rivers and torture literal babies to violent deaths to make little moon shaped blobs for their sandwiches by eating more meat. Clearly the only other option would come off as employing judgement and condescension to say one way of eating is less respectable or polite than other or intimating that the profligacy of animal agriculture may have some unpleasant consequences. So I'm suggesting that we offer ourselves to taste in place of animal products. We can all be less hated. Don't just tell them to please be stopping eating animals, tell them, "Eat my vegan asshole."

And they said I can't be vegan anymore because of it. I'm still salty.