US Justice Department sues UCLA alleging antisemitic educational environment

[u/awaythrowawaying]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-justice-department-sues-ucla-alleging-antisemitic-educational-environment-2026-05-26/

[u/knign]

asked people crossing the picket line to condemn Israel.

How is it any better?

[u/MinaZata → u/knign]

It isn't worse or better, but it isn't what the comment said it was. It is about true and false.

There's a massive difference between a Jewish Exclusion Zone and a picket line over a political issue.

[u/knign → u/MinaZata]

To me this seems like a distinction without a difference, but as long as we agree that it's not any better, ok.

[u/justafutz → u/[deleted]]

Believing Jews have the right to self determination (Zionism) is not only an issue of rights for Jews (regardless of whether it’s a religious tenet), it is also something that the vast majority of Jews consider a fundamental tenet of Judaism. There are offshoots, as with any religion, but that doesn’t change the point about the vast, vast majority of Jews.

[u/justafutz → u/[deleted]]

Well, you’ve rewritten the definition of Zionism while accusing Jews of “colonizing” their historical homeland.

Zionism existed before the 19th century. It was not organized as a political movement until the 19th century. But it existed nevertheless.

It seems a little like you should read more about the origins and definition of Judaism and Zionism. I would suggest this guide. It’s very informative. It also details the issues you are wrong about.

[u/justafutz → u/[deleted]]

The guide literally agrees with my definition of Zionism... It defines it as the belief that the Jewish people are a nation and have the right to establish a state on their homeland (Israel.)

You may notice the difference between "colonizing" and the belief that Jews deserve the right to self-determination in their historical homeland.

I certainly do.

There was a long existing desire by many Jews to return to the land of Israel, but it didn't become a political movement to establish a state there until the 19th century.

The fact that Jews finally got organized in the 19th century doesn't change that it is a fundamental part of the Jewish faith and was before the 19th century.

Again, if you have read the guide, it's quite helpful:

Pivoting around this old-new homeland, Zionism is more than a political movement: it's a spiritual and ideological journey, rooted in Judaism, Jewish history, Jewish values, and the Jewish people. Especially since the Holocaust ended in 1945 and Israel emerged in 1948, Zionism is foundational to Jewish identity.

And:

Contrary to what many have tried to sell you – no, Judaism cannot be separated from Israel. Zionism is, "simply put, the manifestation of that belief."

Please don't skip over those portions of the guide. They're very informative.

[u/justafutz → u/[deleted]]

Oh, so earlier the guide was agreeing with you, now that you've realized it proves you wrong, you've decided to say what Jews believe to Jews. That's cool.

Zionism seeks to establish a Jewish state in their homeland. That necessarily implies colonization since there were a great deal of non-Jews living there already.

It doesn't "necessarily imply" anything. That's false.

There is a difference between the desire/longing to return and the desire to establish a state. Zionism is the latter, not merely the former. The "spiritual and ideological journey, rooted in Judaism" existed before Zionism. It may have been a foundation of Zionism, but it is not in and of itself Zionism.

They're also ahistorical and misleading. Zionism is not merely the spiritual desire to return to the Jewish homeland, it is the desire to establish a Jewish state in that homeland.

It's funny how you agreed with the guide when you thought it supported your point, but now it's "ahistorical and misleading". Sure, you know better than virtually all Jews, and the Jewish People Policy Institute too. Whatever you say.

[u/SmoothAnus → u/justafutz]

It doesn't "necessarily imply" anything. That's false.

They wanted to establish a state on land that was already inhabited.

It's funny how you agreed with the guide when you thought it supported your point, but now it's "ahistorical and misleading". Sure, you know better than virtually all Jews, and the Jewish People Policy Institute too. Whatever you say.

The guide says Zionism is the belief that "the Jewish people have rights to establish a state on their homeland"

I agree with this.

The guide then tries to hem and haw and slightly contradict itself because it doesn't want to acknowledge that definition it just gave.

Zionism is not some abstract spiritual belief about Jewish self-determination, it is specifically the belief that Jews have a right to establish a nation state on their ancestral homeland of Israel. Zionism is a political movement to establish the nation state of Israel. Denying this is ahistorical and silly.

[u/knign → u/[deleted]]

I have no idea how this debate is related to either, sorry.

[u/knign → u/[deleted]]

As I said above: a distinction without a difference.

Also, being Jewish is not a religion, and none of that has anything to do with Zionist movement.

[u/knign → u/[deleted]]

When this “political belief” is “condemn Israel”, for all practical purposes it’s not.

[u/knign → u/[deleted]]

As I said, I have no idea why you keep bringing up Zionist movement.

Thing is, the Jewish state is intrinsically connected to Jewish identity. Trying to deny this and pretend that “condemning Israel” has nothing whatsoever to do with Jewish identity is absurd.

[u/VultureSausage → u/knign]

Thing is, the Jewish state is intrinsically connected to Jewish identity. Trying to deny this and pretend that “condemning Israel” has nothing whatsoever to do with Jewish identity is absurd.

Israel claims that, but Israel has no authority to speak on the behalf of anyone who isn't Israeli.

Zionism is relevant because Israel is claiming authority to speak on behalf of people based on the ethnicity of those people for political reasons. That there is an intrinsic part of Judaism that desires a Jewish state in modern-day Israel does not mean that support for the actions of the modern state of Israel is intrinsic to Judaism. Support for "Israel" in the sense of an ideal Jewish homeland in the Levant is not the same as support for "Israel" in the sense of the modern-day state of that name. The latter is trying to achieve (a version of) the former, but they are not the same. Israel the state is conflating itself with Israel the ideal for entirely political reasons.

In other words, you do not have to be a Zionist (supporter of the modern-day state of Israel) to because Jew (supporter of the idea of Israel).

[u/knign → u/VultureSausage]

I can only reiterate what I said above:

• Judaism is a religion. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to any religion.
• Zionist movement created modern state of Israel 78 years ago. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to this history.
• People can have any views they want. You can be a Jew who hates Israel or you can be an Israeli who hates Jews.
• None of that changes the fact that Israel is the Jewish state as as such demanding to "condemn Israel" is not materially different than saying "Jews aren't welcome".
• This wouldn't be any different for any other nation state.

[u/SmoothAnus → u/knign]

I am bringing up the Zionist movement because that is the movement for a Jewish state.

The idea that a Jewish state is intrinsically tied to Jewish identity is false. It's not true historically, and it's not true even today. Zionists want it to be so that they can claim religious persecution any time someone objects to Israel's actions, but it isn't.

[u/knign → u/SmoothAnus]

Zionist movement is one which created the Jewish state. Today Israel is an existing state, which you can love, hate, support, boycott, criticise, be indifferent to, or anything else, but bringing "Zionism" into this as about as relevant as bringing Pilgrims into debates about today's U.S. policies.

And Israel is factually the Jewish state. Trying to argue that it has nothing to do with Jewish identity is absurd.