I am thinking to go travelling for the next few years and live in different countries for 3-6 months each, maybe longer, depends on visa etc. I have been reading online and my main goal is when leaving Switzerland not to pay taxes and health insurance.

When I was younger I traveled for 15 months and I deregistered at the Gemeinde and they asked me where I am going? I said just backpacking. They said they need an address so I just made up some address in Mexico 😄 They didnt check or anything. I just got international health insurance.

Anyway, now that I am basically FIRE I have an extra issue; what happens with my IBKR account? I mean I dont get mail or anything and I wouldnt care as much to get back my dividend taxes but is it possible just to not register in any country and not pay any taxes anywhere?!

Or does it make sense to register a company somewhere in case I get asked when entering some countries, where my domicile is? Or could I just put in my old address in Zurich? I also have a second European passport besides Swiss so I will research that country too.

I really wonder how that works! Not sure this is the right group but I thought I will start here.

Thanks!

Life is full of surprises. I have got everything set up, burned out and decided to going on fire path.

But just find out my pregnancy is twins. 🤣 still digesting the news and thinking what are the changes we need to adapt to as we will be family of 5.

I amin my forties, wife end of her 30ies. We have two toddlers, 2 and 5. The older ones goes to kindergarden, the younger spends one day at daycare. The rest is organised privately with parents, friends. I work 100% my wife 60%. Our combined Netto income is 200 kCHF.

Our yearly costs are around 110kCHF including

• Taxes
• Rent (we live in a swiss german city)
• Daycare
• Holidays (twice a year)
• Health insurance
• Other insurances
• Food
• Car
• Leisure
• -> basically all our living costs

Now I do expect heath care costs to double over the next 20 years. I also think that being in our forties we should not bet on a 4% withdrawal rate, to keep it safe I think we should rather calculate with 2.5%.

Given the costs of 110k this means we need something like 4.4 Mio.

However, if we both don't work we need to pay the AHV contribution for non employed citizens and also the wealth tax with 0.17% is gonna eat into our budget. So realistically we'll need something like 5 Mio to get us through life.

How does this change if we would use 1 Mil to buy a flat (flats around here are between 1.5 and 2 Mil), rest we'd use a hypo.

I really have a hard time to come up with the optimal FIRE threshold. But it seems to be very high if one wants to play the game save when retiring in their 40ies.

How did you come up with your FIRE number that lets you sleep sound at night?

My parents are retiring early EOY, leaving Switzerland to go back to their home country and FIRE. Instead of inheriting the assets to me directly, my dad wants to sell the assets to me for a discounted price (keeping capital gains tax on the property small).

This would require me to take a mortgage on the assets (initial down payment would be provided by my parents). The mortgage would then be used to pay back the down payment as well as pay off the remainder of the assets (around 100k-150k CHF left to pay off). This would leave me with around 200k+ or even more depending on what price we settle on.

I (26) have a high paying job and can stem the mortgage payments easily (first time mortgage would be around ~0.9% interest rate for now at the bank of my choice). I already have around 30k invested in a diverse ETF portfolio, and ~12 months of leeway in my savings account.

Is this a good idea?

If yes, what should I spend it on?
Getting another mortgage with this money as a downpayment? DCA the money into ETFs over a longer timeframe? Other options?

If no, what alternatives are there?

Hey guys

Im currently 27 years old and already retired since 3 years. While it is fun and I got a lot of hobbies etc. I recently thought about going back to work part-time like 40-60% for a job i like and a small salary to have some additional powder to invest.

What are some typical jobs one could do? That dont require studying or an apprenticeship etc?

My background is in IT, but I dont rly think this job has great future anymore and its hard to find 40-60% jobs, most want 80-100%!

Thanks for the ideas!

Hi there, I'm a 28M Spanish guy, and my wife and I recently decided to move within ~2 years to Switzerland for good (already started learning German and so on).

I know that there's no such a thing as a magic undisputed wealth number to be considered as ChubbyFIRE, but I'm curious how this approximate level can vary from canton to canton because of taxes, cost of living, home prices... Has someone any data about it?

Danke und LG.

How big emergency fund I should have, considering that I would get RAV if unemployed? Currently I have 12 months of my household expenses, and it is that high because I am the one who makes the most in a household and also I have been thinking about starting to freelance and wanted to be secure when I do that. Is it too big?

I wanted to share something that I don’t see discussed enough in FIRE communities.

For years, FIRE was the goal. The number was clear in my head. If I could reach it, I thought I would finally feel free, safe, relaxed. I thought the anxiety would disappear.

I reached around 2 million.

And yet, I don’t feel free.

I reduced my working time, so on paper I achieved a big part of the dream. But mentally, I’m still not there. I keep moving the goalpost. I keep thinking: “Maybe 2 million is not enough.” “What if the economy changes?” “What if markets crash?” “What if inflation destroys the plan?” “What if something unexpected happens?”

The strange part is that by the time you reach FIRE, your brain may be so rewired by years of saving, optimizing, investing, and worrying about risk that you can’t simply switch it off.

You spend years training yourself to be careful. To not waste money. To think long-term. To distrust stability. To assume that anything can go wrong.

Then one day you technically have enough, and everyone expects you to relax.

But your brain doesn’t believe it.

The goal just moves forward.

At first I thought FIRE would mean freedom from work. Now I wonder if the harder part is freedom from fear.

I’m not saying FIRE is bad. I’m grateful to be in this position. I know it’s a privilege. But I also think there’s an illusion in the way FIRE is sometimes presented. Reaching the number does not automatically make you feel secure. It does not automatically make you happy. It does not automatically undo years of anxiety around money.

Maybe for some people it works exactly as planned. For me, it feels much more complicated.

I’m curious if others have experienced this. Did reaching your FIRE number actually make you feel free? Or did you also just move the goalpost higher?

Can I withdraw 3a fund to buy property abroad (in EU) before retirement? Or will I be able to do that only if I would leave Switzerland?

- No increase in official retirement age (65 stays)

- More incentives to work after 65 (higher allowance and income counts more toward your pension)

- No cap on deferring AHV (currently 70) as you can boost your pension longer if you keep working.

- Early retirement gets harder by rising min. age in 2nd pillar from 58 → 63 (with exceptions).

- More / broader AHV contributions that include benefits and higher rates for some self-employed.

- Dividends partially treated as AHV-relevant income if considered “excessive” (to prevent avoiding contributions).

- Possible higher VAT or contributions depending on funding of the 13th AHV pension.

I'm curious to know what you all think about the impact of this reform regarding our plans to retire early in Switzerland.

I (25F) am swiss and am just getting staaaarted with investing - i just graduated in Paris and will be doing an internship there too and hopefully find a job there even though i KNOW the pay there is diabolical. The whole jobmarket at the moment is just a shit show everywhere.
However, my quality of life is just so much better there still. I do eventually want to come back though , hence why I am asking and inquiring here. Next month i will do my Abmeldung in Switzerland officially and i heard I cant contribute to my 3rd Pillar anymore once I’m no longer a citizen living primarily in Switzerland. I “tried” my best the last year and managed roughly 6K in my 3rd Pillar.
My emergency savings are at 11K.
Mind you, i wish i had started this a lot earlier but i was never taught about money, my parents didnt know this, hence i just stumbled upon this last year. Please be kind.

Now i want to invest some money that I will receive from my grandpa. I also want to invest monthly a tiny small amount to familiarize myself with the investing world.
My mom suggested investing into the CHF with UBS since her bf worked there for over 40 years and gets some good perks. But i also would love to invest in an ETF. Some people said its ok to just put some of it in one all world etf and call it a day - some said keep it more diversified.

Realistically, with my mere humble salary of my internship in Paris, i will most likely only be able to contribute about 25 - 50 CHF a month to my ETF.
So my question is to everyone who is on their way to FIRE , who maybe had had experience living abroad etc.
If you were me, knowing what you know now, what would you do?

I know this is a broad question but what do you think would be good BaristaFire jobs that might pay round 5k for 60%?

Currently considering buying a primary home in Valais with 66% LTV, interest only at 1.5% / 400k. The budget estimate for a family of 4 seems crazy low compared to Zurich. This is supposed to cover the standard cost-of-living essentials, no car, no fancy vacations, no dining out, and also no/low income tax. What am I missing for my CoastFIRE plan?

Mortgage Interest 495 CHF

Maintenance/Utilities 500 CHF

Home insurance 100 CHF

Health insurance 1,050 CHF

Out-of-Pocket 150 CHF

Groceries & household 1,500 CHF

Wealth & Property Tax 180 CHF

Transportation 250 CHF

Telecom/Internet 120 CHF

School & activities 150 CHF

Clothing 180 CHF

Kids/Leisure 400 CHF

Household Repairs / Buffer 200 CHF

Misc 100 CHF

Total ~5,375CHF/ mo or ~64,500 CHF/yr

34 years old / male no Kids but want one. Trying to figure out where I stand and when it actually makes sense to pull the trigger on FIRE in Switzerland. AI helped me Strukture it.

Current situation:
- ~830k CHF in stocks / index funds
- 250k CHF in pillar 2
- 50k CHF in pillar 3a
- ~30k CHF crypto
- ~24k CHF watches
- ~20k CHF cash

Real estate:
- 1 apartment (bought for 270k EUR, ~85k equity), currently rented out

Income:
- ~270k -300k CHF/year

I feel like I’m doing fine on the accumulation side, but I don’t have a clear “number” or trigger yet.

What I’m struggling with:
- Do you base it on net worth, invested assets, or yearly expenses?
- Do you include pillar 2/3a or treat them separately since they’re locked?
- How much weight do you give real estate in the equation?
- At what point did you personally feel “ok, this is enough”?

Also wondering if it makes sense to keep pushing hard given the income, or start dialing things down a bit.

Curious how others in Switzerland think about this.

Hey everyone, we are considering moving to Switzerland to a canton where we would be paying approx 0.8% wealth tax. I am planning to live off an approx 4% max withdrawal rate.

0.8 out of 4% seems like a really high tax just for being physically in Switzerland and makes it potentially our biggest cost while in Switzerland (after renting).

How do you reason about it/minimize the impact of it/take that into account of your withdrawal calculations?)

Hey folks,

Have any of you chosen Switzerland fire specifically as a good place to raise kids and establish long term ties?

What are the advantages and challenges say of firing in romandie (valais or vaud) for a family of five (3 kids and wife)?

• Kids all under 5, all speak French
• Filipina wife late 20s, learning French
• EU husband late 30s, speaks French
• Approx 180k chf swr
• Kids education is high priority
• Currently simple living in Philippines

Firing with kids in CH doesn't often get talked about on this sub. So I'm curious if there's something I'm overlooking.

Perhaps you've personal experience, heard of people doing this, or just general advice for decent school, decent family friendly areas to live?

Hello,

I live in Switzerland and I have been investing in the stock market for some time. I am writing this today because since USD/CHF has been going down pretty much forever my investments have been affected by some significant currency losses.

If my home currency was EUR I could simply wait for the currency to go back up, but because I use CHF I really need a hedging against currency losses. Do you guys use any?

I already lost a lot of money because of this so any advice or ideas would be super helpful!

Thank you all in advance!

With the Iran war the markets have dipped across all regions and the USD has strengthened. As a Swiss investor, what are some ETFs/regions worth buying the dip from? (Other than gold, oil)

I am not sure if this is the right group to ask, but does anyone know any reason behind Bell’s horrible performance in recent years - beyond investors potentially seeking higher or faster returns elsewhere? A little underwater here.

Hey guys, when hitting fire you life on Capital gains usually, for which are no capital gains tax, if you are not a professional investors. The criteria are like following:

• Hold securities for at least 6 months before selling.
• Capital gains account for less than 50% of your net income.
• Annual transaction volume (buys + sells) does not exceed 5 times your portfolio value at year-start.
• Use only personal funds, no borrowed money or margin.
• Derivatives (e.g. options) used only for hedging, not speculation.

So many say it requires 3 or more fulfilled points to be professional investors. However I couldn't find anything's fix. Has someone experience with that topic?

I reached my number this year and I just got confirmation of Swiss citizenship, which means I have a Heimatsort in Switzerland!

I’m currently investing my own money (mostly stocks/ETFs and some private equity), and I’m reaching a point where the personal tax drag on dividends and wealth/capital is scaring me.

I’m looking into setting up a holding company to act as a "wealth bucket" where I can reinvest profits before they hit my personal income tax return.

For those who have done this: At what portfolio size ($0.3M? $1M?) did the tax savings actually start to outweigh the accounting/legal fees?

EDIT: Maybe having a holding may be optimal in light of the wealth tax. The capital tax rate (~0.01%) in Zug seems more advantageous than the individual wealth tax (~0.17%) at wealth/capital of >0.75 mio.