r/ArmaReforger • u/Rhycloth • 1d ago
What happened to bohemia
This isn't going to be popular and is going to be for older Arma fans. I've had a recurring thought about ARMA over the last couple years. I remember when the ARMA 3 trailer dropped - I was like 24. It was so exciting, it looked like they had implemented so much new tech with great visuals. It was truly exciting. Did someone important leave Bohemia a few years after ARMA 3 released? It just doesn't feel there is any passion whatsoever coming out of Bohemia. ARMA reforger feels like nothing. As if there is no passion behind it. And also, does anyone remember them stating that reforger was only going to be live for exactly 1 year then they were shutting it down to apply the feedback to build ARMA 4? I swear that was clearly stated around the time of the announcement for reforger and then was abandoned.
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u/Jakerod_The_Wolf 1d ago
Did someone important leave Bohemia a few years after ARMA 3 released? It just doesn't feel there is any passion whatsoever coming out of Bohemia. ARMA reforger feels like nothing. As if there is no passion behind it.
How so? It's a brand new engine. Everything had to be made from scratch so there are a lot of features missing that Arma 3 has.
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u/klamacz Lead Reforger Developer 23h ago
I'm personally offended
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u/_randomdudey_ Sergeant 22h ago edited 22h ago
I think a lot of frustration currently coming from the problems with the new update and missing QA. I mean, the driving right now is like in cartoons. Much more game crashes, but the feature that you can join straight back in after a crash is gone. Queuing it is. Binocs crash game at PS5. Much more stuttering. Something with graphics changed so the game looks worse and so on.
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u/Decision_Popular 20h ago
Keep doing what you’re doing. This update was so much smoother than 1.6.
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u/AussiePerspective 16h ago
"So much better than absolute shit". You're not setting the bar high my dude.
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u/CypherStalker 1d ago
Jay Crowe left. He was creative director of a3. I see a lot of passion in reforger i mean look at their awesome trailers. I think there is someone missing to do a bit of reality checks and direction to the main game mode conflict but otherwise the game is great. Looks incredible and compared to a3 can run on more than 60fps
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u/hitman2b 5h ago
unfortunatly i wish there was things like suppressor for pistols and AI module for helo's
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u/fuckman5 Private 1d ago
If you ask me they peaked with cold war crisis. When that demo dropped, it was absolutely unlike anything we've ever seen before or thought possible. And not only that, it had a fully fleshed out single player campaign with a memorable characters, coherent plot, and immersive missions. The marriage of BI and Codemasters was pure gold.
They've been chasing their tail ever since. Yeah the game got prettier, but the jank remained, never really getting better. Each game feels like a fresh coat of paint on the same game from 2001. And they never got anywhere close to the single player campaign of CWC. Multiplayer gets old when you don't want to play with pimply 15 year olds or mid life crisis 50 year olds anymore. They've clearly got technical talent but the lack of coherent game design or a publisher that can keep them on track and focused on the right priorities is keeping them from reaching the same brilliance. I think self publishing is really the big problem. Now they can believe their own bullshit, get high on their farts and never have to face somebody who will keep them grounded in reality
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u/KennyT87 23h ago
Original OFP was great and groundbreaking for its time but saying that BI's games peaked with it is just bonkers IMO.
Reforger is, again, just a testbed for Arma 4 so I wouldn't shoot down their current know-how before they release it (hopefully next year as they said).
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u/adtrix101 20h ago
I think Reformer is a great step up in engine and performance and graphics compared to Arma3
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u/Sad_Dad_Academy 19h ago
You’ve kind of answered your own question. Reformer wasn’t originally intended to be long standing, it was just to help them with the early steps of Arma 4, testing out the Enfusion engine originally made with the DayZ Standalone.
So what happened? They are working on Arma 4. Clearly they’ve shifted resources from existing titles like DayZ and Reforger.
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u/Destroythisapp Lieutenant 18h ago
Don’t know, been playing Arma titles all the way back to OF. Had a lot of fun with reforger over the last couple years, and in many ways it’s an upgrade over Arma 3.
The last year though Bohemia has made some really weird gameplay decisions. Instead of adding content, optimizing, bug fixes, performance fixes, etc. they chose to try and fundamentally alter the way players interact with the base game because of their “vision”. They want vanilla conflict to be some kind of hardcore milism experience which is never, ever going to happen no matter what they change.
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u/Wheresthelambsauce07 7h ago
So hear me out: if Arma 4 is suppost to be just a way fleshed out and upgraded version of reforger (cold war era). Why would they try and put a bunch of effort into reforger long term? What do you think will happen to reforger once Arma 4 comes out? I think they are just barely keeping it alive with updates but they know its going to be dead once Arma 4 comes out.
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u/Destroythisapp Lieutenant 5h ago
Good points, and some of that was actually addressed today in a post from the devs, I don’t know if you have seen them, but one was posted here. From what I gather, they claimed reforger started out as a way to test the new enfusion engine, and probably go secure a little extra money for the dev cycle, but it sold way above their expectations ( thanks to consoles) and now it’s going to be treated as its own thing.
I really have no idea what the future of Arma 4 or reforger will be outside of 4 being late Cold War most likely. It could be that Reforger stays around for consoles, or maybe they are trying to get consoles on Arma 4. It’s hard to pass up that console money, especially considering how niche Arma has been in the past.
Who knows, according to the devs the we are getting one more vehicle this year for reforger and a tracked one at that, the M113. So we will see how that goes.
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u/Draviddavid PC 1d ago edited 1d ago
ARMA Reforger is a technical demonstration. Wait for ARMA4 to assess whether or not you think the passion is actually gone.
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u/Asleep_Conclusion147 Private First Class 1d ago
arma 3 is already out
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u/PaulsSmarterMilk 1d ago
Can’t wait for Cold War crisis to come out.
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u/Draviddavid PC 1d ago
Typo. I meant ARMA4.
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u/VatoCornichone Staff Sergeant 22h ago
I'm not sure how do you measure passion, but I guess it's subjective. One thing we know for sure tho, Reforger is a stepping stone towards arma 4. It's never gonna be as in depth and polished as fl blown arma. So buckle up Buster, its coming in 2027.
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u/0utabounds 19h ago
Since 1.7 dropped there are times when Arma 3 only has 1K or so fewer current players than Reforger on Steam Charts and it would not surprise me if it actually surpasses it at some point.
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u/Historical_Koala_688 Sergeant First Class 18h ago
What the absolute heck are you talking about? I’ve been playing arma since armed assault in 2007 and reforger is the BEST state arma has ever been in especially vanilla. Arma 1-3 vanilla was super bare bones and you pretty much needed mods to make It better, I am super excited for Arma 4.
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u/Sean_HEDP-24 15h ago
My only concern is the consoles Integration and how that can harm the integrity of the game, as well as the lack of popular tools like Eden that are likely not going to be shipped at launch.
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u/The_Omen17 13h ago
I think itsbthat way because reforger isnt intended to a be a full title but software to play and test the new engine whole using some of 4s assets.
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u/Low_Thanks8148 PC 12h ago
what are we even talking about? you realize arma reforger simulates mushrooming tumbling terminal ballistics wound cavitation? this game has improved upon (the infantry aspect primarily) arma 3s gameplay a ton. the skids for helicopters bend and actually absorb shock. vehicles don’t fly into the air when the make contact with one another. and all this, without the need for a single mod.
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u/Wheresthelambsauce07 7h ago
Imagine how many vehicles need unique animations, everything basically handcrafted. Then a massive map with all furnished houses. Thats probably why arma 4 is taking so long.
People wonder why we get less game these days, well part of it is greed and part of it is the fact that graphic standards keep going up, and it just takes longer and longer to provide that level of detail. So you get better graphics and less game. Or Alternatively you get better graphics, the same amount of game but it takes way longer.
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u/Successful_Order6057 7h ago
The only thing I find disappointing about Reforger is the map size. Feels way too small somehow.
But that's temporary, I think.
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u/hitman2b 5h ago
i don't think they mentionned shutting down reforger but only giving it a year of content
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u/EmbarrassedAside5558 1d ago
Bohemia didn’t have demo project before arma 3. Now they polishing Arma 4 having Reforger as test polygon. So no excuses should work for them if Arma 4 fails on start
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u/ThreeFootJohnson 22h ago
No excuses? Have you ever developed a game in the modern world. Shits bound to go wrong at launch and a bunch of online nerds will voice their opinions whether valid or not.
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u/EmbarrassedAside5558 20h ago
What’s the value of Reforger then? To make extra cash? They put on track a whole game calling it a road to Arma 4 just to fuck up new arma launch? No sense. BI literally has everything to polish Arma 4 till the shine
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u/protector97 22h ago
Reforger is much better than any Arma game before it, the engine progress alone makes a clear winner. ARMA 4 can hopefully do the same.
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u/Polo117 Second Lieutenant 22h ago
Idk how anyone who has played since Arma 2, even 3 can not look at Reforger and be amazed.
Yes things get broken, updates are slow.
But are you forgetting what Arma 2/3 was like?
They’re working on a new engine which has transformed Arma, and will continue to transform Arma into something better than it ever was, just let them cook.
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u/p4nnus 21h ago
Something better? By making it more arcadey in most ways that matter, by limiting its possibilities with aged console HW? BY denying us PC only features like steam mod workshop and forcing us to use a inferior workshop?
Ive played the series from 2001 and I find it crazy how anyone who has actually thought what makes OFP, A2 and A3 stand out, played them a lot, wants the identity to survive, not be worried?
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u/Polo117 Second Lieutenant 20h ago
Everyone bags the consoles and changes made because of them, yes some of them are 100% valid.
But the one and most important thing everyone always leaves out of this argument is player population, which was always an issue on previous titles.
I live in a rural region, so my low latency options have always been very limited, until Arma Reforger.
I imagine the same can be said for thousands of other people.
Another point people will then say is console players ruin the experience, which isn’t accurate. Yes bad players exist on console, aswell as PC. Though you will also find milsimers from the console audience, so those communities now have a larger pool of people to play with.
I don’t like some of the changes made to accommodate the consoles, but I recognise the benefits outweigh those consequences (for the most part).
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u/p4nnus 20h ago
I agree to disagree that the benefits would outweigh the consequences. Im happy for you that you get to play the game more.
Ive played the series since 2001. The console audience 100% has more of those bad apples, more of people who dont care how they get their kicks from the game, as long as they do. People on consoles are used to be able to say anything, do anything without consequence. That absolutely shows.
The larger pool doesnt outweigh anything to me, as I dont have similar problems as youve had. A3 has like 8000 players right now, its not like thats low or bad. The game sold decently and is still played very actively. Player population wasnt some existential problem overall.
The series is losing its identity and getting worse in order to be more popular. This trend can only move in one way. Theres literally no examples of it reversing.
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u/Polo117 Second Lieutenant 19h ago
We will have to wait and see what Arma 4 brings to properly confirm the direction they’re going in, as Arma Reforger is a much smaller scope so it makes sense for them to test the title on consoles.
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u/p4nnus 19h ago edited 17h ago
Youre quite optimistic. I dont enjoy telling it to you, but youre basing it on false premises. Reforger is Arma 4's 0.5. Maybe even 0.7. We know that, the devs have said that. What was supposed to be a project with 2 years of dev't has grown in scope.
Reforger and Enfusion, the engine its a testbed for, are built from the ground up for this gen consoles. Reforger has the basics, but lacks a lot of depth and vehicles. Arma 4 will be Reforger, but with just a new map or 2, more vehicles like tanks (but no jets, consoles cant run the game with needed view distance & simulation complexity), more inf variations, more variations on the vehicles we already have. There will be some new systems too, that tracked-vehicle-track simulation will be in there. But thats it. There wont be major overhauls on player controller, gunplay, vehicle simulation. There cant be, as these systems are tuned for this larger new audience and making separate systems for PC and console is doubling the amount of work for little reward.
A4 is set to release in a year. At max 1,5 years. They havent shown anything, because if they would, it would show how its just.. Reforger, with a little bit more. I can tell BI is afraid to show anything in-game, as they know there will be backlash when people realize they are buying, for a big part, the same game again.
BI hasnt got the resources to develop 2 games of this scope at the same time. Reforger IS A4, but just a portion of it.
Now the direction.. what makes you think they would change it? Going for consoles first and foremost, making compromises for PC players, its making them a literal shit ton more money than anything they did before. Why would they make things less cost-effective regarding this, when they dont have to and they will rake in all the moneys anyways? Why cut your own profits if you dont have to?
The direction is what we can see in Reforger.
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u/TheeAlteredState 20h ago
Their disregard for a decent baseline of software quality doesn’t bode well for any future product.
Reforger has such an innate/baked in level of chaos in how features are implemented and delivered that it’s hard to feel hopeful.
A lot of it feels like “churn out the MVP and fuck off home”’
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u/p4nnus 17h ago
What happened? Enshittification has started. Console audiences are a much more lucrative market than just PC niche mil-simmers. So ofc its greed for money that drives them to a make a more accessible, more arcadey Arma.
Reforger is a great game, but a mediocre Arma game. Its the first step down the enshittification slope. The slope never ends and theres no getting back up. Arma 4 will probably be a good game but a mediocre Arma. Arma 5 on the other hand.. expect aim assists, further cut simulation fidelity and faster, more focused gameplay experiences. Because thats what sells.
If we forget Reforger and A4 for a moment, lets for a moment remember, that BI, the studio that has been one of the greats and has resisted enshittification for a long time..
tried to sell a subscription to Arma 3, a 13 year old game
That happened to Bohemia.
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u/Idcboutuser Staff Sergeant 1d ago
Someone was talking about how a new director came in and that guy is a super asshole,maybe he is dragging down team morale?
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u/toorkeeyman 20h ago
Nah it's still the same of old Bohemia Interactive with the same old issues.
They really need to accept that their job is to make a stable/optimized platform and trust the community to build mods for assets and game modes.
All the time they spend tinkering with game mode settings and whatnot is time not spent optimizing the underlying stuff
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u/Desire_of_God Sergeant 17h ago
I'm lost for how you came to this opinion. Reforger at launch was more enjoyable than 3 after the 30th paid DLC.
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u/sephing 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm an Arma 3 vet with thousands of hours.
I disagree with you. Arma reforger feels so much more refined and well built than 3 did. It doesn't have as many mods but that boils down to age.
The graphics have gotten a major overhaul. The engine has been rebuilt from scratch. The AI is... Still janky. The gunplay feels so, so much better.
I think reforger is a fantastic stepping stone to Arma 4.
I think you suffer from something that a huge amount of gamers suffer from in viewing older games with Rose colored glasses. You played Arma 3 for a long time and made a lot of positive memories and defining gaming moments that are now associated with it. What you don't remember is all the jank and frustration that came before those defining moments.
Arma 3 is by no means perfect. There's a reason "Arma moments" became a meme in the Arma 3 era. The engine has severe limits on modern machines. 3 felt like I was fighting the game more than any enemy I encountered. It had (and still has) flaws, just as reforger does.