Can someone explain me the casting controversy around this film?
I've only heard a trans actor was cast as Achilles, which is, if you actually know the Illiad, a choice that absolutely makes sense.
Don't know what the other controversy is about though.
Achilles is described as a very beautiful, feminine man.
His mother didn't want him to go to war, because of a prophecy that said he wouldn't return, so hid him in a temple among women and Odysseus, who was charged with recruiting him, needed a ruse to find him, because he was not able to recognise him amongst them.
Also, he only decided to go back to war when his lover Patroclos was killed by Hector, after refusing to fight anymore because of a conflict with king Agamemnon.
casting is going up against fucking Peak Brad Pitt as Achilles
Is it?? Why do so many of you keep talking like they're remaking Troy? Why would we even want a gorgeous, muscular thirtysomething actor playing a miserable, half-decayed ghost who just shows up to impart a grim warning to Odysseus? Because that's all Achilles does in The Odyssey.
For that matter, why would we want a twentysomething catwalk model playing Helen, who appears in Odyssey as a jaded and cryptic queen presiding over her 29-year-old daughter's wedding?
The answer is very very simple but people are going to bend over backwards to not admit to themselves or others that the only reason they are mad is its a black woman and a trans man. Even in this thread man, people are trying to create any narrative they can to denigrate Page and Nyong'o's casting in the film but we know it just boils down to good ol racism and transphobia. The notion that a black woman cant be the most beautiful woman is just inherently racist. And a trans actor existing is enough to piss some people off.
Achilles is described as "huge" and lion-like in combat, but the actor Elliot Page is 1m55. Yeah, Achilles is also incredibly beautiful and god-like, but that's not the same as being feminine. What you're doing here is performative ignorance - "look at me, not even logic can stop me from being open-minded". It's happening in literally every discussion of this movie and it's exhausting.
Also, I hope you realize that calling a trans man "feminine" is not the woke flex that you think it is.
With respect to Achilles, there might be a justification for casting Page as him, because in the movie he is presumably dead and therefore a diminished version of himself with dramatically reduced physical presence. This matches greek beliefs about the afterlife and in the trailer Page looks to be acting that way. That works much better than the nonsense you wrote.
He’s a legitimate bad person who should be judged by his choices, platforming him in a major motion picture is a decision that should actually be critiqued heavily.
While agreeing that 'feminine man' isn't the best wording, I don't think it disapproves the point that I was trying to make and stems from this not being my first language more than lack of knowledge about the Illiad (although I don't claim to be an expert).
I jus tried to point out Achilles, while he is a fierce warrior, is not described as as one dimensional in his masculinity as the manosphere crowd likes their men.
Ian McKellen is about 5' 10" and Elijah Wood is 5' 5", but clever camerawork magnifies the difference in LotR to make Frodo appear two and a half feet shorter than Gandalf.
Tom Cruise is 5' 7½" (officially) but never looks up at anyone on camera.
Yes he is. Achilles is famously one dimensional, he is arrogant, sensitive, and volatile. That's literally his character flaw.
Instead of inventing things to conform to your nonsensical worldview, you should read and educate yourself that other things exist outside of your narrow ideology.
look at the ancient representations of him. He has a beautiful and youthful face and no hair, but he still has the ideal body of a man. Nowhere in the illiad he isn’t described as «feminine »
Isn't he also supposed to be the definition of a perfect warrior? Isn't he described as "tall, striking, and physically unmatched," and called "fair-haired"?
Achilles was in no way described as feminine and was not perceived as such in ancient Greece. Westerns readers centuries later added this perspective . He was in fact the exact opposite , he embodied the essence of "kalos" (beautiful/noble) and was the archetype of masculine "aristeia" (which meant greatness, perfection ,martial excellence). So that casting choice makes absolutely no sense.
In no way does it explain why being trans has anything to do with this. just cast a feminine men (twink). Elliot Page dosent in anyway fit the description of Achilleus.
he only decided to go back to war when his lover Patroclos was killed by Hector
I just put down "The Song of Achilles" half way through because I was finding it extremely bland. No depth in the Central relationship nor in the characters, no subtlety, only forced melodrama, and this spoiler makes it sure that I'm done with this novel.
I don't really care for 'The Song of Achilles' but the fact you didn't know about Patroclus getting killed kind of amazes me, cause where I live it's part of school curriculum while learning about the ancient literature, I'm just surprised
That's understandable of course, sorry if I came off weird. If you didn't like SOA I can recommend original Illiad if you like long poems and suchalike, it's quite cool even though the language is funny and old sometimes. It does live up to its fame in my opinion
Where are you from, if I may ask? I'm Swedish and while we do study a little bit of mythology from around the world, we mainly focus on our own Norse myth -- I imagine that's the experience of most cultures
That's to say, most of what i know about the odyssey I have looked up in my own freetime
I'm Polish, here we have 4 years of high school where we have subject called 'polish'. First year is divided for both ancient literature and medieval one. Ancient starts with the Bible (due to history Poland is really catholic in some ways) then we have Greek and Roman philosphy, Greek (Roman gets ignored all the time) mythology and Illiad along with some Odysey. After that there's Horacius (idk his name in English so sorry if I'm incorrect) and I mean he is the most explored poet on our lessons, both his stoicism and epicureism and his non omnis moriar. There are others like Tyrtaeus and Sappho as well.
We are made to read lots of stuff from all around the world here, but I have had a great Polish teacher and she encouraged us to read on our own and gave us fun facts and I adored the way she taught us. There's lots wrong with our education system but she was not part of it.
And I am jealous you get Norse mythology as here we don't at all even though we have only one sea between us. I find Norse mythology really interesting and Sweden is actually quite important for Polish history (especially 17th century). As our Polish myths are quite obscure and have little actual written stuff we don't learn it. There were tens of tribes - none of which cared to write them down, so when christianity came in 10th century, it started to get brutally demolished. Nowadays most of us know most of it from Witcher and songs.
Sorry for the essay but I hope it was at least interesting
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u/SosseV 13d ago
Can someone explain me the casting controversy around this film? I've only heard a trans actor was cast as Achilles, which is, if you actually know the Illiad, a choice that absolutely makes sense.
Don't know what the other controversy is about though.