r/zen • u/[deleted] • Mar 14 '18

Huang Po: Motionless Mind

Not til your thoughts cease their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.

  • Huang Po
20 Upvotes

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-1

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

It is interesting to me how much people want to take this out of context.

If by thoughts he means what 3P meant, the act of separating what you like from what you don't like", then no amount of meditation would help anybody.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Meditation obviously isn’t helpful. Zazen is, however.

-3

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

Zazen prayer-meditation seems to produce more sex predators than masters of anything: https://www.reddit.com//r/zen/wiki/sexpredators

Again, though, what do you expect? Zazen prayer-meditation is regular meditation with a cult religion frosting on top. Anybody the least bit confused about life is going to be encouraged by such moral corruption into more and more of it.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Zazen isn't meditation.

2

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

Zazen prayer-meditation is faith+meditation.

It is, if anything, less effective than regular meditation...

...and Zen Masters don't think much of meditation.

https://www.reddit.com//r/zensangha/wiki/notmeditation

Take yourself as an example. A normal person would read the statements in that link and conclude easily that Zen Masters weren't fans of meditation.

A person who meditates would look at that link and conclude, if anything, that Zen wasn't about meditation.

But you can't be honest about the statements in that link. You have to lie to make yourself feel better when other people don't.

Why?

Zazen prayer-meditation is a moral detriment.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

I agree with you. That's why I practice zazen.

0

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

I don't think you have the integrity to agree or disagree.

You are doing a bang up job of showing people how rotten the heart of your religion is though. Better than i ever could with measly facts and arguments.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Integrity is for people who don't have faith in mind. When you make no distinctions, that is the true Path.

And I think you misunderstand dhyana. It's much older and much more reliable than the so called Zen tradition you apparently are the gatekeeper of. In fact, nature to this day echoes motionless mind and dhyana in its serene stillness.

I don't want to show people anything. In fact, if people follow what I say or what I practice that is already "Wrong View."

A practice that taints itself with argument and discourse clearly is not worth practicing.

That's why I practice zazen.

That's why the Soto and Rinzai schools are tainted today. We must go back to the roots.

3

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

Zen Masters don't say "make no distinctions between faith-based cult Buddhism and Zen. In fact Huangbo again and again eviscerated religious beliefs and practices throughout the text.

You can claim that there is something older than Huangbo, but you are in a forum about Huangbo... so why not talk about Huangbo? Is it because it turns out that what Huangbo means by "dhyana" isn't what your religion preaches?

You come in here, pretend to talk about Huangbo, and then lie to people. Either your practice of Zazen prayer-meditation isn't curing your dishonesty, or it is making you a liar.

Given how many Zazen prayer-meditation teachers of the first generation were sex predators, my guess is that the religious practice isn't a cure, and in some people it actually makes them worse.

All you need now is a faith healer.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Zazen isn’t meditation. You can wash and bowls and practice Zazen. That doesn’t mean you’re doing anything special. In fact, it’s actually quite mundane.

When you have learned this fact, you will empty all dharmas, giving them no life. This is why Huangbo is so right in gutting out religious practice. He’s one of the main reasons why I practice sitting dhyana, actually.

And are you talking about the Soto and Rinzai lineages? Because zazen existed before that, even before Shakyamuni.

2

u/koalazen Mar 14 '18

Even ewk cannot disturb your zazen.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

:-)

0

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

Dude, you go to a church that puts sex predators in charge out of faith in a practice created by a fraud and a plagiarist. Dogen created Zazen prayer-meditation.

Finally, when confronted about this, you lie about Huangbo.

You practice self deception, man. That's what the evidence points to. And Zazen prayer-meditation just makes it easier for you to lie to yourself.

There is no question that people like lying to themselves, you've proven that. But that's as far as you can go. You are held back from realizing anything, mixing it up with the Jesus-rode-a-dinosaur people and waiting for your turn to burn a witch.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

The Soto Church didn’t create Zazen because it’s something that is part of our Buddha Nature. The Tso Ch’an I lives in you. Zazen is just a word that the Japanese made up to feel better about themselves. Call it whatever you wish. It’s ineffable. Even calling it Zen is a mistake.

Whatever church you belong to, I’m not interested.

I only practice Zazen. Everything else is highly irrelevant.

And on the Huangbo part: how is repeating the teachings of a Zen Master lying? He repeatedly disparaged meditation in Transmission of Mind. Did you miss that part?

I say that Huangbo is the one of the main reasons that I practice Zazen in the first place for a reason.

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u/Kingrap1441 Mar 14 '18

Cool link thanks for sharing this

0

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Are you a drama-bot?

2

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] Mar 14 '18

Why lie about other people? Admit you are only here to troll because your "practice" doesn't work:

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/7xs1iz/of_course_zen_is_meditation/duaoum5/

0

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '18

Is that reply #44A7F? That's my favorite.