Hi there! I’m an elementary school teacher in the United States looking for some clarification.
I got a new student from South Africa this year who I believe was brought over because of Trump’s refugee program for white South Africans. The student has made some concerning racist comments to me a couple of times (interracial marriage is weird, Black people dress badly, etc.) I obviously told the student these comments are completely unacceptable. I know they are likely repeating things their parents have said, so I’m trying not to view them differently, but it’s not something I am used to hearing.
I know a bit about the history of South Africa and that they’re having issues with farm attacks, but I guess I’m just wanting some more context. Are these racist attitudes pretty normal among white people in South Africa today? Or is it a minority? Is there any good way to navigate this situation? Anyone else experienced this before? Would appreciate any insight.
I'm a white South African and I'm married to a woman of a different race. Most South Africans that I know including white South Africans have no issue with my relationship. I think that it's a minority of white South Africans who still hold those views but then again it could be because I've spent most of my life living in Johannesburg where people tend to be more progressive.
Also white guy here in relationship with a black woman (Cameroon). Unfortunately when we are in SA there are a few people that disapprove. Very few though & mostly the type I think that took up the offer to go to the US. Majority of people in Sa don’t care though, in fact are very friendly towards her as she sometimes struggles to communicate (French). For your student, I think realisation will kick in that we’re all just human, that to treat someone else as inferior because of skin colour is wrong.
Depends on where you are. I'm a black guy in a biracial relationship and we legit get looks walking through our local malls. Upper market areas are more accepting, but almost working middle-class and below? You'll notice
That's specific areas in JHB.
I work in Alberton and let me tell you, the white people there do not share your progressive views. Unfortunately.
I myself am a person of colour and get treated very differently to my white counterparts when I venture out into the area for errands.
Different how? In the U.S., there have historically been far more black male-white female relationships than white male-black female, though that seems to be changing. Is that not the case in SA?
No it's not normal, I was born in 1992 just before apartheid ended. I was in school with all races. I do not blurt out racial slurs to others, how embarrassing! I can remember being brought up in an Afrikaans home were it was sometimes difficult but at the end all people matter and everyone deserves respect and kindness. And that is how all of my friends were brought up around me and that is how we are raising our kids too.
My teacher experienced a similar thing with me because my father was a bigot (and frankly still is). She challenged my views constantly and now I hold no grudges. Please do the same. These people are often taught anger is the best resort to somebody challenging your world view, but I doubt they can do much with that if they are on the younger side. If they are on the older side, be careful. But other than that, just challenge what he says at all times. Is the rest of the school like this? Are the others in his class like this? If not, then once you challenge his views they might not really come back, especially if he makes friends with people of colour. Good luck though, it’s not a quick process, though it’s a fun one if you like arguing.
This, so much of this. In my case it was one of my Professors. Most of the bigots get raised by bigots, and it takes something/someone externally to get them out of the bigotry circle.
Such behaviour won't be tolerated at a South African school. The child will face disciplinary action and the parents will be called in. (A university won't involve the parents, but the student will face consequences.)
Also, the student is now in the USA. So even if this behaviour was considered normal (it isn't) it shouldn't matter - the student should adapt to American standards.
Unfortunately, there are still South Africans with racist attitudes. Fortunately, they are in the minority, but a very loud minority, especially on the internet. When people don't stand up to them, they think their behaviour is normal. So please don't ignore this student's attitude and challenge it. The parents probably thought the USA is a racist's paradise - please set the record straight.
Not normal. The people who went over as "refugees" are nutty and racist. I just hope the kid can shake off their parents bad teachings. Best of luck with that. Sorry you guys got the worst of the worst going over.
It seems like they already have their fair share of the worst of the worst over there. Might as well send the rest of ours there too while we continue to heal this side from their nonsense.
The only reason Trump keeps hammering on about a white genocide in South Africa is it justifies the two state solution in Israel. If he can make it look like all white South Africans are being targeted after the fall of our apartheid system, Netanyahu can say the same will happen when their system falls in Palestine.
As a white South African myself, we live comfortably, and still in a privileged position compared to 95% of the population. Farm violence occurs at a lower rate than other types of violence. This country has its problems, but it takes some serious mental gymnastics to think that white people are somehow the victims.
Absolutely this. Hard agree that farm violence is not as prevalent as other forms of violence, and it has been greatly exaggerated for whatever political agenda.
This child is most likely mirroring behaviour that has been seen at home, while also testing your boundaries. OP, please keep gently pushing back and teaching. Since it is elementary school, I think it's important to explain /why/ saying racist things is incorrect and hurtful, not just banning the kid from saying it (I predict he would just stop saying it in front of you, but not change his mind or think more deeply about it).
When I was teaching in Asia, I put on an educational video that happened to feature a Black person. I was shocked at the racist attitude of most children in the elementary class. I explained a little about where I come from and the history, and why we needed to think about others' feelings, and that skin colour doesn't tell you anything about someone's intelligence or value as a human etc etc.
In future classes, I then made a point of choosing videos featuring people of colour as the experts/teachers/main characters/singers/artists etc to try and reinforce what I had spoken to them about, a kind of "show don't tell" approach I guess.
As for the general attitudes in SA, in my experience, white boomers assume every other white person shares their views, and within the first 5min of meeting will make some horrific comment. I have learned to quickly shut that shit down. I say something along the lines of, "please don't assume that we share political views just because we share a skin colour".
People closer to my age, mid 30s and below, are much more "progressive" (not being racist should not be progressive, that should be standard but aaanyway) in general, but that could also be a skewed perception based on the people I hang out with having shared views to me.
Any white South Africans who took up the crazy offer to move to the States because they're somehow victimised inevitably will have certain view points about SA and people of colour, so just be prepared for that if you do have to speak to the parents about it.
The fact you posted here speaks volumes about the kind of thoughtful and caring teacher you are, and sounds like the child is lucky to have someone like you to challenge his/his family's beliefs.
ETA some detail and that I am a white South African and a teacher
Thank you, this is really helpful. I’ve been trying to challenge the student’s views without getting too worked up/angry because I don’t want to push them away. I know it’s not the student’s fault that they have been brought up with these beliefs.
Please don't generalise about us boomers. I was born in 1954 and have absolutely not bought into any general attitudes in the slightest! I love my country and I love my fellow South Africans.
Agreed, my grandmother is more progressive than many people half her age. But its definitely a relatively common thing where older white south Africans assume they're safe to share their racist views around other white people. Saw it a lot with my dad, although he has gotten a bit better over the years...
One must be careful not to put people in a box. Such behaviour does not apply to all Afrikaners. It was also not necessary the mindset of all the people from the older generations of Apartheid era. E.g. my childhood covered the '70s & '80s. Even if the laws of that time was upheld by my family, we were raised to respect people of other races. I can remember that I got two hidings as a small child (one from my dad & one from my grandfather) for being disrespectful towards black people. I also noticed that in some families, some members have racist tendencies & others of the same family have none. This is also applicable generational. Maybe you must have a discussion with your student's parents. This behaviour is not in the interest of the student.
Not South African, but were I in your position I’d assume that moving to the United States at this point in time is a filter that selects some types of people from a more general group.
There's a reason the type of people who take the pedophile's offer to be part of his show, are the type of people who take it.
Is maga views normal in the usa, or is it minority?
Not as many MAGA people in my part of the US, but there’s definitely some that are and just keep their mouth shut about it. I was wondering if it’s the same in SA.
No. Racist white South Africans assume all white South Africans are racist and openly speak out this way. When ostracised for their views they spelt an attitude that the country has gone to the dogs and move to USA of Australia. Generalisation of course, but in my experience racists here are quite brazen with their racism.
That sounds like the batshit old lady down the street. I'm not even from here but the first time I went for a walk and waved hello she went into a whole rant about all the k-words working construction on the neighbors house and how she wanted to kill her other (Indian) neighbors dog if it barks one more time and will throw shit at their house.
Like ma'am, we just met and I said nothing to you implying i would agree with any of that, so where is this coming from??
Their racism is so bizarre that white people from the countries they run off to complain about them. I’ve seen a bunch of posts of people complaining about the racist white SAns. They think racism extends to all white people in general.
And here I thought it was only us whities from South Africa who couldn't wait to not have to hear the vitriol! Ah shit, they're free, take 'em, take 'em all !
They aren't refugees. Im a white South African and I dont feel threatened at all. I love this country.
So majority of these South African "refugees" are people who aren't successful in SA and they blame it on racial discrimination instead of their own short comings. I believe a large majority of them are entitled racists.
Farm murders isnt racial. Black farmers are also targeted.
So yes the kid comes from a racist family who took a moldy tangerine's offer to live in a country where they thought their racism will be praised.
Im 40, I spent the first part of my formative years under apartheid, and lived through the transition period.
I'm an English South African and a recovering racist. We are probably super racists because I was taught as a kid we were the master race and even superior to Afrikaaners who were backwards and stupid.
Anyways, I'm a recovering racist because I left that environment (moved overseas) and it was the best thing for me. I got to experience other cultures, learn new things, learn my own limitations and just that I was wrong.
As advice for interacting with your student, just keep at it, be friendly, give them time, set boundaries and eventually they will learn on their own that everything their parents have taught them is not true. There is hope for the kid. Thank you for looking after them and making sure they have the best shot at being a normal well rounded human adult one day. You are doing your best!
I think an important thing for white South Africans is to do what you have done and sit with the knowledge that you were taught and indoctrinated into racist beliefs from when you were child and examine how that might have influenced your beliefs about yourself and other racial groups in South Africa. That's a major first step in addressing the things that are wrong with our past.
Those inherited and internalised racist beliefs still show up in our daily lives and across the different races who will still offer better treatment or services to white South Africans compared to others, seek the validation of white people or use the presence or approval of white people as a sign of legitimacy, competence or moral right.
We have all been wounded by our past and have inherited the pain of it whether we acknowledge it or not.
I think it was a bit of both. No one single moment that stood out except I was at a party and they asked me to tell some South African jokes and I realised that almost all of them were heavily heavily racist. Other than that just constant exposure to new stuff.
As an Afrikaans white South African with few English speaking friends, I’ve not heard of English white South African’s being taught racist attitudes. Not at all disputing it, but can you say more for my education? Who exactly is it who taught you that, your parents?
My parents yes. My grandad told me when I was a teenager that I can't marry a black person, Indians are OK but the absolute worst would be to marry a "Dutchman".
Also referring to afrikaans as caveman language.
It's really stupid, because the whole attitude was that English South Africans are best and should be in charge of things, but Afrikaners were the real racists because they invented Apartheid. Its just self delusion.
Ive also got Rhodisian roots, many left Rhodesia at the 70s and went to primarly English speaking areas and bought their own brand of racism with them.
So yes from both sides. I can't speak for your friends, but that's my experience from the 80s and 90s Durban/Natal.
My mom’s English uncles were the most racist people I ever met. My grandpa wasn’t like his brothers and my grandma was Afrikaans but omg my grandpa’s brothers were vile. Tbf they also looked down on the Afrikaans but at least we were white :/
How can you have very few English speaking friends in SA? I thought everyone in SA learned English in school. Everyone I’ve met in SA has some command of English ( though admittedly, there are many parts I haven’t visited).
He might mean English first language or he is from parts of the WC or NC. I've been to numerous places where English is not spoken at all or by a few that has come from somewhere else or got a higher education. It is Afrikaans and Setswana.
Edit: In the Northern Cape you dont even get welcomed in English
As a white South African, I can say in my family no racism are tolerated. I childs best friends are black and the relationship between me and their parents are great we braai together almost every other week. The behavior of thar child is due to bad parenting. Someone mentioned you got the worst of the worst, I don't want to nor like to judge but I'm inclined to agree.
Absolutely disgusting. No, don’t normalize or try to explain it away as something cultural/normal. Treat it like the abomination it is and call in the parents to discuss why it’s problematic and unacceptable in the classroom setting/cite school policies about respectful behavior, etc. Unfortunately you are getting some of the worst of the worst, the ones willing to betray their country by lying/misrepresenting the crime experienced by everyone of all races. Do what you would do for any other child who acts like that.
As a black South African, experiencing racism is normal but it’s rarely as in your face as slurs. they’ve learned to hide it better and now it’s mostly in the actions but i guess you do get people like the students family. can be as unnoticeable (for South Africans) as having your gardener sit on the back of the bakkie even when there’s space inside.
Not at all normal, OP.
Only disgusting racists (who run up other countries or believe lies, like there's a "White Genocide happening here) speak like this.
And while we all have disgustingly racist people here; this kid, and his Voetseking parents are not the norm, no.
Its unfortunate and sad that parents still invoke such thinking. I am white south african and avoid people with views like that. Kakked out my parents as well when they mention things like that in my house. And yes, my view of those refugee people can be that they portray a specific mindset. So good luck to you OP, and know that not everyone in South Africa share the racist thinking.
I'm a white South African born in 1994. Obviously I can't say first hand but my understanding from interacting with older family members and studying history is that those attitudes were the norm during apartheid to the extent that they would have been taught in school and even some churches.
What I have noticed in my life since I was old enough to start noticing race issues (around 10) is that the racists have over time learned to shut their mouths or emigrated. And of course some of them have legitimately changed their views. Everyone knows they're still out there but they are a dying breed and overwhelmingly from older generations.
I am however from an area where most white people are English. Most of the Afrikaans people I have encountered in my life have have been role models of non-racial Behaviour (possibly because of the constant allegations they have to deal with) but we are all aware of pockets in the country that fondly reminisce about the the "good old days" and have done their best not to change things. Your Voortsekkers are likely from of those places.
Edit: Don't call them Voortsekkers to their faces. It is not polite and you could get in trouble.
Heh heh! I've never heard that. Voortsekkers indeed. Voertsekkers is also a nice descripter! Seriously though, it is annoying being old, Afrikaans and white and living here and being labelled as being racist simply because of your age, language and gender. All I can say is, I am not.
Askies oom. I must admit that it's like a breath of fresh air when one meets a white boomer, interact and then realise that they are not what you assumed they were. So I'm sure you've been a breath of fresh air to many rainbow people 💛💙❤️💚🤍🖤
I grew up in SA as an English immigrant in the 70's and 80's. I didn't have all that much to do with Afrikaaners. Mostly English 1st language at school. They were ok people, but tended to follow society's "majority" views if you see what I mean. We moved back to the UK in the late 80's before the fall of apartheid. I have since met Afrikaaners here who have been 100% sound people. However, as in any society, no more or less, I have no doubt dark (racist) tendencies exist. That would obviously be amplified if the people in question emigrated to avoid "woke" multiculturalism or however they'd frame it.
Please read the explanation from Glowygreentusks in this thread. Voortsekkers isn't my invention. It's something I read on this sub and I thought was funny so I used it.
My intention wasn't to make fun of the voortrekkers, just these modern people who think they are the same.
Bro, as someone who is actively involved in the Voortrekkers (the youth organisation), there's no offence taken. I'm stealing it, and taking it with me to events.
The Voortrekkers now are very much about staying here and loving the country as it is, and anyone who has a racist agenda in the organisation has a personal invitation from myself and the other involved adults I know to fuck off and voertsek
Voortrekkers were a group of Dutch people who fled British taxes in the Cape Colony during the 1800's and founded the Transvaal and Orange Free State previously countries but since 1910 a part of South Africa. Romanticised as heros, kind of like your cowboys in the US. The forefathers to many Afrikaans people in SA today.
Voetsek - an Afrikaans swearword meaning fuck off. Can be sometimes shortened to "sek". It is not polite to use at someone.
Voetsekkers - a combination of Voortrekkers and Voetsek meant as a jab at these "refugees" fleeing to the US. They see themselves as persecuted, the rest of South Africa doesn't agree. So it's teasing them saying fuck off and don't come back. It's very typical South African humour.
It won't be offensive, that's the point. Voortrekkers today are like your Scouts. This guy is not Afrikaans (although he is white), and has no clue about Afrikaans culture. My advice to you aboit your student is teach him to be better, that's all you can really do. If his surroundings promote inclusivity, he will fall in line I'm sure.
Thank you for being the kind of teacher that tries to understand the context of their student’s concerning behaviour. Frankly you are doing an excellent job. Please correct this student gently but firmly. This behaviour would be unacceptable in 90% of contexts in South Africa. We are working to make that 100% as I am sure that you are doing in America.
To quote the orange menace: “they don’t send their best.” There are basically two kinds of people who get on this refugee program:
Stone cold opportunists who know the whole thing is bullshit but nevertheless take the opportunity.
Racists who hate the fact that they have to share the country with black people. They’re typically what you would call “low information voters” whose biases make them extremely vulnerable to mis- and disinformation. [1] Frankly, we’re happy to see the backs of them, but also deeply embarrassed by their presence on the world stage.
[1] I’m currently visiting family like this. It’s exhausting.
They've moved to the US because they know those attitudes are by and large not welcome here, and they hope that the US will become racist and backwards enough to accept it.
Let's be honest here, the people who took up the refugee status are racist af. Most South Africans of all colors live happily together... Yes we have racists amongst us, but we are dealing with them across races...
But... Seriously now, America is the most racist place on this planet! Lol... To come out here and say you have not experienced racism in America is crazy! You guys get confronted in public, shot at, blamed for existing... It's all over socials for real... I spent a couple of months in America and I'll choose South Africa every time...
Just tell that racist Afrikaner to shut the f up and get on with your business...
I guess I should be more specific. It’s definitely NOT true that I’ve never heard people say racist things here, lol. However, at least where I am (very anti-Trump, racially diverse urban center) racist people are usually less direct about it. It’s not so much people saying “interracial marriage is wrong” ; it’s more like, smaller micro-aggressions. It’s also embedded in our society on a systemic level and many white Americans don’t acknowledge that.
I’m so sorry to hear you had a bad experience here.
Time to level check. Yes, we currently have an orange pseudo-fascist racist as our president and yes, he and his bigoted supporters are having a moment, but don’t get it twisted. America is not anywhere close to being the most racist place on the planet. We might be the most race obsessed place on the planet, but that’s an entirely different thing. America is still overwhelmingly concerned with addressing and reducing racism which is why so many Americans get so upset when we start backsliding. But the America of today is so different from the segregated, violently racist place my parents grew up in that it’s hard to believe how much it’s changed. We’ve always have this one step forward, two steps back approach to racial progress. So, yes, we’ll have to live through a couple of more years of Trump and his reactionary racism and then he’ll go and America will resume moving forward.
To its credit South Africa is doing very much the same thing. The few times I’ve visited (most recently last summer), I found a country working hard to put the racist past behind and pursue greater prosperity for all of its people.
Absolutely not the norm. There are racists everywhere, but as a white South African, I love living in our rainbow nation. I'm so sorry for the child that you are teaching. I certainly hope that as they grow they can see past their parents opinions and can learn to love everyone regardless of their skin tone or cultural differences.
It’s a selective bias. Trump invited racist group to get into the country and thus you have them there. He selected them by their skin color. Remember anyone with a tinge of brown in their skin (that is not loaded with $$) is from a sh*thole country (according to the U.S. State Department now.) So you get the result of it.
On the side note, I really commiserate being a teacher in a public school in the U.S. That field has been so neglected for years. That is also the reason why we have flat earthers, q-anon, and maga in general. OP, you are doing a tremendous uphill battle. All the best of luck to you!
Unfortunately, these kinds of racist commentary and mindset is plentiful with the people who actively apply for Trump's refugee programme. It is not the mindset of the majority of white people. I am a white person, and the people you now have to deal with do not fairly represent our nation.
Great points already noted. Sorry you have to deal with that.
A bit of context that might help is that black farm owners have also lost their lives.
Also, on white owned farms where attacks have taken place black labours working those farms have also lost their lives.
Which is why the whole race-based attacks narrative is disingenuous at best since only white lives are being counted.
We have a crime problem. There’s disproportionate ownership when it comes to farm ownership, majority is white, so the stats around attacks will reflect that.
The stats on violence and murders in suburbs, during hijacking’s etc. also blow this narrative out of the water. If race based violence was taking place it would be everywhere and not just on farms.
Farmer attacks happen (not based on race) but there’s also people taking the gap,
Racism at least in my neck of the woods is still very prevalent. People who lived during apartheid especially still hold those values. My parents and grandparents both have racist views due to their upbringing and experiences. The generations after apartheid tend to be less so but you'll still get people who live in echo chambers and are brought up in racist households and find similar friends.
Unfortunately there is also a large corruption and poverty (poverty caused by apartheid) issue in the country which ends up reinforcing a lot of these peoples' views and beliefs. People who are hungry and desperate will often turn to crime and even those who have labour jobs will at times feel the need to steal because they're not paid well enough.
My lecturers were white and some of the most amazing people i met on earth.
Especially one, she was truly the most kind hearted granny ever- i pray for her everyday.
I also met crazy racist ones during my professional life- pure racism like u wont imagine. Some of the stuff they do and say i dont think would fly even during apartheid.
I think tho
Like every other group, theres good and bad people.
I'm so disheartened whenever i hear about some Afrikaners who still embarrass and vilify themselves by their views. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. But happy to hear that you've had positive experiences aswell. I don't even consider the bad eggs as fellow Afrikaners, they are just traitors of our democracy.
I'm white and grew up at the tail end of Apartheid. I'm English South African, my parents never spoke that racist way, and respected all people as people. But even they probably absorbed some of the unspoken assumptions about race that were prevalent then. It was very normal when I was young to hear white people being disgustingly and openly racist, because they were accepted by government as the master race, and all those disgusting bullshit views were allowed to exist and be accepted as truth.
In the 30 years since Apartheid ended , white people have had a reckoning. A lot of the really racist people left immediately. The racist ones who were poor or unorganized stayed but carried on being racist. The rest of us chose to stay because we love our country and the diversity within it.
When Trump gave his out to the conspiracy theories that have been around for decades about white genocide, those deeply, vile racist people who didn't manage to leave, took their chances. So that is who Trump is bringing to your country. I'm so sorry.
If we're being real, a lot of Afrikaans people hold this backwards thinking. Maybe not to the same extreme as the refugees in America but not enough white people in South Africa are anti racist
Yeah for sure I'm just emphasizing South Africa cause its what was mentioned in the post and what I have personal experience with. Also a lot of Afrikaans people are more so outwardly because apartheid didn't end because of a change of conscious, it was because it was losing them money. A lot of them still uphold these beliefs because they were let off easy
Slight correction: There are definitely farm attacks happening, but there is no evidence of them being targeted attacks against white people. It just so happens that a lot of white people own farms. There is no "white genocide".
I will reiterate what most have said. It’s mostly a minority of racists who have failed to mentally move on from the racist regime after South Africa became a democracy in 1994. They do not represent the majority. They are sad people. And these are the people going to America as refugees. Yes people in farms have been murdered. Especially in the 2010s, we would hear a lot about it. But it’s not government persecution like the Trump admin make it out to be. Our country has terrible crime and lots of problems, but we celebrate diversity and do not tolerate racism.
Edit; I’m a white Afrikaner btw. White Afrikaans people hold the majority of capital in this country. We are simply not being persecuted. The government even tolerates Orania - a white Afrikaner community that’s like a small city.
It should be the other way round. Americans should be given refugee status to come to RSA.
Not normal. Please note that these “refugees” are not real refugees, just racist opportunists taking advantage of a free plane ticket because they miss their old apartheid ways. There is no white genocide happening here. Terrible crime affects every single race and culture across the country.
Pretty sure the Venn diagram of people who believe there is a 'white genocide' occuring, the people that would take up a pedos offer of refuge and those that would like to bring back apartheid is just a circle.
Challenge them, they are just a dumb kid that doesn't know better yet.
I think this is more a question about the views of the particular group of people who choose to participate in that particular “refugee program” than it is about the beliefs of broader South Africans. The people selected for that program do not meet the refugee requirements set out in most countries and, by participating in this, are arguably themselves helping to advance racist narratives about South Africa.
The type of white South Africans that would go over to the US as a ‘refugee’ are the type of people who would hold those kind of views. Racists and bigots.
It’s not normal to say things like that here and it’s completely unacceptable. I’m a teacher too, and they would face major disciplinary action in a school. The parents need to be spoken to. They know that it is unacceptable.
You've probably experienced this already as a teacher, but in my experience as a teacher of Black Studies in predominantly white schools, this student might get quite angry when challenged. I came to see that as a reaction to the cognitive dissonance they were experiencing because, if what you are telling them is true, that means someone's been lying to them all their life. It can take a minute to work through that. It's not personal to you, and of course it's not ok if they yell at you, etc., but if they shut down or stop talking or glare, it doesn't mean you're not getting through.
I'm a white South African. I'm one of 6 siblings. Four sisters, myself and 1 brother. My parents taught us to hate the evil that institutionalised racism was and to treat every human being with kindness and decency. Everyone of my siblings has adopted multiple children of every race and tribe found within our borders. Family events and get togethers are the clearest display of The Rainbow Nation, a sight that brings me hope. White, coloured and black COUSINS, NIECES, NEPHEWS, AUNTIES AND UNCLES play together and love each other without even a semblance of ill will in their hearts.
That being said some people are still fostering hatred and bigotry in their hearts. They romanticise the efficiency and power of the country during apartheid. It's easy to forget that the country only served the needs and whims of a small minority of it's residents. It's easy to give the impression of a high functioning society when only about 5% of the country has it's interests catered to.
There is nothing we can do about the strife, hatred or animosity that may still exist in the hearts of some of our population, regardless of their race. We cannot force any person to change the condition of their heart. All we can do is to make sure that our own hearts are open to one another and that we treat everyone with dignity and respect. That being said I honestly feel an incredible sense of community amongst the multiple races, languages, tribes and colours of our beautiful country. I feel as though as a country we are healing together, unfortunately often through mutual suffering under crime, high cost of living and political corruption.
It seldom happens, but when I meet another white person and that person suddenly starts using racial slurs around me, I am actually startled by it and try to get away from them. It is just nasty, unclean behaviour to think of other people in that way.
Ha! Good point. I guess it’s more the overt racist comments that were surprising to me (maybe it shouldn’t be, considering who our president is). That is definitely not socially acceptable among most people here, but it sounds like it isn’t in SA either.
For context, I live in a more progressive part of the country that is very racially diverse. The majority of people in my area do not support Trump and his ideas. There’s still racism, but people are a bit quieter about it. Which is not to say it’s less bad.. I was just surprised to hear someone share those views so directly. Even in the more conservative areas of the US, I don’t think most people would say that interracial marriage is weird, but maybe I’m wrong.
It is somewhat common depending where you are. Im always shocked when I hear the racist bullshit said by even young adults, like people in their early 30s throwing slurs
The point of the so called refugee program is to bring the worst of us over to America so that's what you are getting. While, unfortunately, there are still plenty of racists in South Africa, what you are getting are not at all representative of Afrikaaners as a whole.
Please don't send them back. Every one you take makes South Africa that little bit better.
The White South Africans who a) believe that, instead of just a (serious, but general) crime issue that does target farmers (of all colors) disproprtionately because they live in isolated circumstances there is some "genoicide" agains them specifically and b) ran to insert themselves up the Orange Turnip's back end with their "fake" refugee nonsense are not indicative of most white South Africans, no. They are indicative of the same bigotted issues and troglodytes holding SA back and currently causing the US to be a friendly nation TO those people.
Don't worry, judging by the bulk of them, they'll soon be running back to SA because they can't have massive houses and tons of staff to keep them up for them, or they're not being handed everything on a platter (normal concerns for "refugees", no?), so you probably won't be stuck with them long.
To be a bit more objective: No, they are not the norm here, that's exactly why they want to run to worship at the golden alter of bigotry you are dealing with right now under a fake pretence in the first place. So they can continue to be regressive bigots somewhere they feel is more friendly to that.
It’s a minority, and blessed be this refugee program! Take them! Take them all! The rest of us have other priorities and need to focus on moving this country forward
Good rule of thumb is that if they entered the US under Trump's "refugee" program they're likely to be racist fuckwits. Sorry you have to put up with them
Unfortunately, even 32 years later, we still have people who carry the same unfounded hate in their hearts that their parents carried. And the kids genuinely don't know any better because it's something their parents have taught them.
Please please PLEASE! Help this kid in your class. Help him unlearn something that has been passed down for generations from ignorant, fear riddled forefathers that were honestly subpar humans.
As a white South African i can say the people that were brought by the refugee program are the exact group of people that hold those prejudicial and bigoted beliefs so it’s not surprising honestly because the whole purpose of the refugee program is for people who share the same ideology and it is rooted in racism.
I think you need to bear in mind that the sort of person that thinks they're an afrikaaner refugee is inherently racist. That the kids are growing up in a racist stew of a home life.
POC but white passing enough that racists say the quiet part out loud to me....they're a minority. Most white people are chill like everyone else. Also the "farm attacks" are a manipulation of data. Look at the statistics. Simple explanation: majority of arable land is owned by white people because of historic systematic racism thus statistically they're more likely to be attacked as farm owners. The statistics show little to none of the attacks are race related. They're normal robbery/assault cases. Its opportunistic crimes with white people statistically being more likely to own a farm. They're not "farm attacks" just regular poverty related crimes.
White farm murders was also used as propaganda during a PR campaign for the Guptas to try and distract the public from the state capture issue by a PR company from the UK called Bell Pottinger. They even played multiple races in the comment sections to try and invoke racial tention. The company has closed from the scandal, but no true accountability has taken place to discourage anyone else from going the same.
Bell Pottingers one main guy is also in the Eipstein files writing press releases for Eipstein.
First of all, there are no special farm murders happening to them specifically because of their race. There is high crime in SA against everyone, especially if you are physically isolated, have a safe in your house etc. This makes you vulnerable to criminals not because your are a farmer, Afrikaners are not special. That being said, racist people tend to talk a lot and they want to teach their children too, because racism really isn't natural. The kid is just parroting what they heard from home. Just challenge the beliefs, teach them well and be patient, otherwise call the parents
An Afrikaner on the Trump refugee program is more likely to be a racist than not, so I'd say that's pretty normal interaction for those specific white South Africans.
White South African in US due to American husband. Maybe there's a bit more racism in ZA, difficult to say as someone not on recieving end but from purely observation I'd say it's close to the same? I have two American friends in interracial relationships, one in midwest and one east coast and the amount of shit they deal with is unreal to me. Looks, comments and just general existing as a non white in America sometimes sounds worse when it comes to treatment I dunno.
I find in general we can be honest and talk about racism a lot more than in the US. It feels so hush and hush and people take it as personal attacks sometimes.
All to say, i don't think this kid and his family represent the norm, they're the very racist minority much like MAGA can be here
I sincerely believe that they are the absolute minority and what currently fuels the whole racial divide is easy access to the internet since it makes it incredibly convenient for stupid people to find and interact with eachother.
Thanks for taking some of the dumb people of our hands though.
It is most likely a case of repeating what they heard from their parents. If the parents buy into the whole white genocide thing, they're going to spout a lot of racists garbage.
I don't know if it's majority or minority. I can't make adjudications about what people say in their private homes.
As for what you can do for the student, I don't know. Maybe let them talk to more people of colour over there. Maybe if the can see the shared humanity, it changes something for them.
Yes, we do have farm attacks, but it's not just white people who are victims of this. Criminals are not going to discriminate, they're going to make everyone their victims.
No not normal. Fucken rascist little kunts raised by rascist family who openly use the K word and yearn for the days of apartheid would return. White farmers ate statistically WAY less likely to be killed than your average black South African. it does happen and on the rare occasion is racially motivated, but this is such an edgecase that all this waffle Trump drummed up is ridiculous to South Africans. We do not claim these "asylum seekers" and we almost unanimously despise them and hope they don't return.
Punish the little shit and tell his stupid parents "Their Poes".
The farm murder thing is mostly fake in that white farmers are not being specifically targeted and crime is generally a huge problem here and if your students family used that as an excuse to seek asylum in the US, they are most assuredly racist. Most white people here are not like them at all.
Yes! These racist attitudes amongst white South Africans (Saffas), especially the white refugees and Afrikaner community are pretty common and should not be entertained.
Have a meeting with the parents and be firm about how these comments are viewed in America.
There is no white genocide in SA! There are lots of whites still living in SA willingly, who will tell you the truth.
Crime is high in SA and is perpetrated against everyone regardless of race. This is not the same as white "genocide" which is false.
The white "refugees" have gamed the system and taken advantage for an easy way to get into America. All at the expense of the American taxpayer!
Trump promised to reduce refugees and the burden on the American taxpayer but, took them in because Musk convinced him to. Musk has his own agenda of making America a white majority.
The Afrikaners are a very close knit conservative society who do not like mixing with others and view themselves as superior to other race groups especially non whites. They were brought up with this mentality! Afterall, they invented apartheid!
Good riddance to bad rubbish. The type of people who took Trump's option are the dreck we most likely did not want in the courty anyway. Case in point.
Trump is importing the worst South Africans, to bolster his support. No there is no white genocide, farm attacks can be especially vicious, but amongst our greater crime statistics, they don't really stand out. I'm a white South African that was raised by racists, in a racist environment, and I and many of my age came to the conclusion that it's absolute BS. Blame the parents, as they're too stupid to realise they were brainwashed by white nationalists. But the kid and his parents need to be sat down by the principal or a counsellor and made to be understood that those views won't fly where they are now. They have likely never heard this before and will act very offended. Stand your ground.
It's mainly the ones who went over or are planning on going over with the refugee program. The rest of us are a family.
Call the parents in and tell them their kid can't be saying inappropriate things at school.
Unfortunately, racists don't care that they're racist, so you're not really going to make a difference. But maybe if the kid has to abide by certain rules at school, he can see the truth and do better.
We are a new democracy, only since 1994. I was born in that year and I'd say for my generation and younger, we don't generally hold those views ourselves. That's his parents talking for sure, and many exclusively Afrikaans areas do still generally hold racist views (many who took that 'refugee' status/get-out-of-jail free card are staunch Afrikaaners/racists, and I'm saying this as a white South African with Afrikaans roots). However, those views can still be deconstructed at his age.
For the farm attacks, it's a complicated situation. Being a farmer in South Africa is very dangerous regardless of race, there's no denying that. While both black and white farmers are attacked, some individual attacks have racially motivated elements or resentment against whites, even if it is not systematic. For farmers who live in fear or poor unskilled Afrikaners who are essentially doomed by BEE, even if they may have racist attitudes, I cannot blame them for taking the chance at a better life.
Its definitely a minotiry that are that hectic. I am an Afrikaner married to a Muganda (from Uganda), and all my family and friends have no issues. Society in general, we have actually had more issues with xenophobia than racism but thats another story. Overall, I would say 95% of interactions are.no issues. But you will get the looks, and those sorts of things, but we get that in every country we go to, so thats nothing new.
The same thing is often said about bisexuality, but you hold self-loathing views about your own sexuality too, so I guess the bad take you cling to here shouldn't be all that surprising.
That said, may the downvotes be ever in your favour.
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