r/secondcaptains • u/pauli55555 • 9d ago
Simon Hick, Trimble SC’s Leinster analysis wtf
WTF Simon. Trimble.
Leinster need to get rid of Cullen asap. If it happened 5 years ago that might have been a soccer style reaction, but after year on year of failure it’s just logical/ cop on to get rid of him now.
Trimble wtf were you on about also?? You WERE my fav rugby commentator now you are just another clueless Cullen buddy.
Cullen had ZERO coaching experience and was given the keys of a Ferrari. That was a disgraceful decision by the IRFU in the first place. Until Lancaster came on board Leinster were going backwards under Cullen. Lancaster should have been given full responsibility there and then.
Cullen has practically the Irish squad to select from. My granny could get that Leinster squad to a EC semi or final and a URC final. They have 3 important games a year and Cullen fcuks it up every year. Case in point, Frowley brought in at ht as out half in the final, despite Cullen not have selected him for over a year at 10. What sort of prep/ coaching is that??
Culturally Cullen has ruined Leinster. They were always renowned for attacking organised rugby. Now they are just some sort of horrible defensive hybrid. They don’t even lose gracefully.
If I am Ringrose. Furlong, Conan, JGP, Lowe, Henshaw, Porter, Keenan, Ryan, Sheehan etc I am disgusted that his clown has been my head coach for the best years of my career.
Get this absolute spoofer out of Leinster immediately and get in a legitimate, proven coach (Scott Robertson, Franco Smith, McNamara, ANYBODY!) and guarantee Leinster will win a EC before some of these guys retire ie. in the next two years.
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u/kev21h 9d ago
Cullen needs to go but Leinster could get the best coach in the world and they still wouldn't win the European cup any time soon. This group of players have had their chance, and now it's over. Same thing with Ireland at World Cups - 2023 was THE opportunity, the now or never....and sadly, it's never.
Trimble made a very under discussed point: Bordeaux just have better players. Cullen gets all the abuse but it's not his fault that after 300 pro games Henshaw still can't pass a ball properly, Byrne kicks restarts dead and Ringrose butchers overlaps for fun.
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u/fravbront 9d ago
I agree the chance is gone for this group. But Cullen should have gone a few years ago, to maximise the end of it. he didnt and look what that got us.
But he should still go, but his replacement will likely not win any euro cups and the usual bores will be on to "ah see, its not so easy is it"
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u/pauli55555 8d ago
I know Bordeaux seem insurmountable at the moment but we’ve seen this before with eg Saracens.
Teams keep coming and going but Leinster is the one constant. Hence I think Leinster will 100% still be there over next two years. There will be a window.
Cullen’s issue is he’s always reacting to what happened last year. Forward thinking coach will best utilise this Leinster squad. They still have two years left in them.
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u/fravbront 8d ago
Unfortunately i think Leinster next year will be worse than this year. A few outgoing, those coming in are of lower quality in all cases i can see. And another year older for a number of the veterans.
I hope im wrong but i dont see it
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u/Colin_Brookline 9d ago edited 9d ago
I struggle to listen to their rugby analysis anymore.
Simon Hick constantly answers his own questions before the guest even gets a chance to speak. He’ll spend a minute setting up a question, throw in two or three of his own opinions, and by the time the guest responds there’s very little room left for any real analysis.
A good presenter should facilitate the conversation, not dominate it. When the host is talking considerably more than the guests, it becomes frustrating to listen to. The lads really need to have a word with him because it’s damaging the quality of the show.
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u/mustkillmow 9d ago
I don’t think even his colleagues would go so far as to refer to Hick as a good presenter. Eoin regularly has to talk over him to let the guests speak.
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u/Colin_Brookline 9d ago
Eoin is tends to be on hand now to step in sometimes to stop Simon from overcomplicating things or talking himself into awkward takes. There are moments where Simon seems so focused on sounding insightful or going overly in-depth that it ends up coming across as forced rather than adding anything meaningful to the discussion, and the second hand embarrassment is too much.
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u/fravbront 9d ago
Drives me mad when they describe the idea of getting rid of Cullen as "knee jerk". Its quite remarkable. I cant think of a losing record like it in any sport im familiar with
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u/thisisnotmysand 5d ago
Eoin was great on this. He did point out that Leo has been there ages already and it's perfectly reasonable to want a change without it being seen as an insult to the man
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u/Dangerous-Ant4029 9d ago
I think it's a case of too much success for Leinster (I'm counting teaching the finals as some form of success). Toulouse have won the trophy twice in the last ten years compared to Leinsters one win. A difference of one trophy but no one is saying Ugo Mola is a fraud.
It admittedly might be time for Cullen to move on but some of the vitriol is pure over the top comedy. It seems like your either the best coach or an absolute charlatan who has single handidly destroyed the club
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u/fravbront 9d ago
if ugo mola lost 5 finals in a row, i GUARANTEE people would be calling him a fraud
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u/FoggyShrew Put some respect on my name 9d ago
I think some of the hate for Cullen is harsh, but that being said he has underperformed, no question.
That being said, getting in a top-class coach now, when a lot of Leinster's golden generation players are coming to the end stages of their career (Furlong, JVDF, Porter, Gibson-Park, Slimani, Snyman, Henshaw, Ringrose are all the wrong side of 30).
A really good coach could get them one CC next season if the change is made now, but Leinster are about to (within the next 2-3 years) enter a period of extended rebuild as these players retire or are phased out.
I think broader criticism is due to the IRFU and the Leinster Rugby organization for the Jacques Nienaber hiring. He's been an utter failure as a defence coach. His hiring was meant to maintain Leinster's swashbuckling attacking style while being tighter in defence. In reality, both sides of the ball have suffered (attack not as effective, and shipping some huge scores).
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u/TurkeyPigFace Bald Fraud 9d ago
Leinster definitely need to move on but only because it's clear things have gone a bit stale for them, the problem I have is that you can see the issues it's also bringing to the national set up.
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u/Distinct_Ad_8056 9d ago
I don't feel particularly strongly about it, but they've won one trophy since 2021 under Cullen with the backbone of the Irish/Lions squad He's also been there since 2015, so maybe a change is no harm at this stage.
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u/caisdara 9d ago
Meh these over the top howls are always tedious.
I'm not convinced by Cullen but what head coach was available to do a better job?
Why is Cullen the target of your ire? What about other coaches, etc?
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u/fravbront 9d ago
What head coach? No one was identifying Cheika, or Schmidt as the right man to come in - but they did, and they got huge results. As did Cullen at one stage. Its been 11 years, do we just wait until .... any good coach is available?
Do you not think if Leinster let it be known they were looking for a new coach, they would be inundated with applications? I mean, nail the Leinster job, and the Ireland job is likely the next step. Its a very attractive job.
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u/caisdara 9d ago
Can you name a likely candidate?
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u/fravbront 9d ago
I couldnt have named Schmidt or Cheika - and they were phenomenal. Its not really my job as a casual fan to know these guys, but if we were aiming high, why not approach:
Scott Robertson
ROG
Noel McNamara
Contepomi
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u/caisdara 8d ago
ROG wouldn't take it, Contepomi has a national job with a World Cup imminent.
Scott Robertson only just became available after failing totally at NZ. Odd choice.
McNamara hasn't got first team experience yet. I'd like to see him as an attack coach.
You're not disproving the idea that there aren't replacements out there.
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u/scewbert 8d ago edited 8d ago
Scott Robertson only just became available after failing totally at NZ
Lancaster and Farrell came in on the back of a humiliation at England's home World Cup. I think Robertson's record with Crusaders would suggest he's still a quality head coach.
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u/caisdara 8d ago
So you'd have fired Cullen in January?
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u/scewbert 8d ago
I never said that. I just think it's mad to write off Robertson completely after one bad spell when he had 5 years of incredible success under his belt beforehand.
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u/caisdara 8d ago
Ah I'm not writing him off but he's only just available and after a disastrous job. Sacking Cullen for him would be bizarre.
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u/myglr 9d ago
"what head coach was available to do a better job?" lol. Literally any coach in the world would have done a better job. Why not take Lancaster after he did so well? Andy Farrell when he was Irish number 2. Warren Gatland after he left Wales. There was ample opportunity to take a better coach, but for some reason they refuse to. Is it down to a lack of money post-Covid? Unlikely, but who knows?
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u/AB-Dub Put some respect on my name 9d ago
Warren Gatland!? Piss take
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u/myglr 9d ago
How is that a piss take? He's a brilliant coach.
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u/AB-Dub Put some respect on my name 9d ago
I wasn’t aware that we had travelled back in time. He’s absolutely no longer a top coach. Wouldn’t want to revert to his shit style either
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u/mustkillmow 9d ago
Yeah, let’s not interrupt this ticket and their Leinstertainment brand of rugby.
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u/caisdara 9d ago
So your options were the future Irish coach an actual Leinster coach and a busted flush.
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
They’re also forgetting Lancaster’s Leinster lost 3 of those finals and funnily enough some people were happy enough when he announced he was leaving. Madness.
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u/caisdara 9d ago
It's just idiocy.
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u/fravbront 9d ago
Do you basically no other coach in the world would have achieved what Cullen did in the last 11 years?
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u/pauli55555 8d ago
What other coaches are there?
Why/ how was Cullen selected as coach in the first place. He literally had zero coaching experience.
Therefore to answer your question- how about Leinster getting ANY coach with ANY proven experience.
I’m guessing from your post you don’t follow rugby too much and it doesn’t mean that much to you. Which is fine. But for those of us that give a dam and understand the importance of provincial rugby to our national team it really does matter who coaches our provinces.
Also this isn’t a reactionary post, this is a build up of 3-4 years of watching Cullen mis manage Leinster.
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u/Distinct_Ad_8056 9d ago
I know hasn't had a great time of it in Gloucester but Ross Byrne hinted heavily that he wasn't happy with things at Leinster a few months ago. Could be Cullen or other parts of the club,the didn't properly commit on an answer https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/things-changed-at-leinster-the-last-two-or-three-years...-it-was-a-pretty-easy-decision-to-move-to-gloucester-ross-byrne/a/132574991.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=share
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u/myglr 9d ago
Well said. He's the worst coach in sport. Absolute spoofer. And what makes it so funny is that he recently had that insane rant about how poorly he's treated by the media, despite the fact that he has never faced any criticism of any sort. If he was a soccer coach he would have rightly been binned 10 years ago, but for some reason he's kept on to churn out the same underperformance every year. Incredible.
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
If say Erasmus was there next year would Leinster win the European Cup? And if not, would you then be firing him?
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u/Difficult_Tea6136 9d ago edited 8d ago
Bit of a disingenuous reply. Cullen wouldn't be fired based on one season, a manager appointed this year and fired next year would be. It's a false equivalency
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
Not really. Just trying to understand the bar. It’s pretty high right?
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u/Difficult_Tea6136 9d ago
well your argument is that if a coach came in and didn't have immediate success would they be fired as some comparison to Cullen. It's not. Cullen has had multiple seasons to prove himself and shown he's not up to it.
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
So how many seasons would you give a new coach?
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u/Difficult_Tea6136 9d ago
Entirely depends on performance doesn't it?
Silly question
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
Sorry, I’ll simplify it for you. How many seasons of not winning the Champions Cup?
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u/Difficult_Tea6136 9d ago
Completely depends on performance doesn't it? It's still a silly question.
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u/Clsmooth48 9d ago
It’s obviously a question which is causing you some degree of trouble to answer.
So what would be the minimum performance you’d accept for a new coach who was in situ at Leinster for 3 years in terms of URC titles/european final appearances/european cup wins?
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u/Difficult_Tea6136 9d ago
You're completely shifting the goalposts now. You started by asking if a new manager would get fired next year for failing to win the Champions Cup. A silly question. Now you’ve pivoted to demanding a strict three year performance rubric.
This is just a distraction. We don’t need to map out a flawless three year projection for a hypothetical successor to acknowledge that Leo’s actual tenure hasn't been good enough. Defending his current poor results by demanding a detailed roadmap for the next guy is a flawed argument,
it's time for a changeIf you want to defend Cullen, go for it but "what is success over the next 3 years with somebody else" isn't a defence. It's just a really weak argument
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u/mustkillmow 9d ago
Personal highlight for me was Shaggy’s revisionist “I was saying Frawley was the guy all along” effort.
No you weren’t, Shane, I haven’t missed an episode in a long time and you definitely weren’t.
Then in the same episode saying “we all thought Prendergast was generational”
No we didn’t, Shane, just you and the circle jerk crew on the Indo and OTB and the rest of the terrible rugby podcasts acting as IRFU PR.
It’s like these pundits think they’re on talk radio and there isn’t a catalogue of everything they’ve been saying for the last decade.