r/butchlesbians • u/CommonBrilliant7947 • Sep 14 '25
Discussion Why do people pretend there’s too many butch lesbians in media?
I saw this YouTuber reviewing a movie where a masculine girl turns out to be a lesbian and she said “here we go again! the stereotype that masculine women have to be lesbians” Except, the VAST majority of masculine women portrayed in media are not lesbians. I can only name one main character who’s a butch lesbian in a recent, mainstream TV show(it’s animated so is it really even that mainstream?). I’m not going to talk about her because I’m told I talk about her too much. But it’s like…if anything there’s a huge shortage of butch lesbian main characters in things. There’s also so many people who talk about how we have to stop demonizing femininity in shows/movies by just having less masculine women characters…but it’s like feminine women were considered the “standard” in everything how are you more demonized than masculine women in any way? If you’re not feminine you’re told that you’re trying to be “not like other girls” or whatever. And why do people pretend no one would want to see a butch woman in media/that they are unattractive when there’s a HUGE amount of people who find them attractive. In fact, it might even be easier to get an audience for that character than a feminine women since there’s so many characters catering to that audience already
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u/HummusFairy Stone Butch Sep 14 '25
Because they’re butchphobic and actually don’t want to see any butches, just two dainty feminine white girls politely and palatably kissing
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u/Entire_Atmosphere990 Sep 14 '25
in a similar vein, “why do people over masculinize lesbian characters so much” maybe bc people just want actual butch lesbian rep? and maybe the characters arent “over masculinized” and you just cant handle butch characters
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u/soft--rains Sep 14 '25
Or like, straight audiences cannot handle anything they even prescribe as masculine on a girl character. Is she /actually/ butch or is she just a perfectly effeminate woman who like, is a good fighter, or is really blunt, or wears flannel sometimes?? These are all honest to God THE ONLY non feminine traits on characters I've seen called "masculine"
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u/Visible_Cash6593 Sep 14 '25
Because those people think that any is too many.
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u/CommonBrilliant7947 Sep 14 '25
I think you’re right about this unfortunately, I’m pretty sure there was even a pretty recent Disney movie where they had to actively make the main character less masculine because they were afraid it would upset people. It actually seems like it’s getting worse…2025 has certainly been a year.
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u/Strange-Cup-2847 Sep 14 '25
It's because women who deviate from traditional gender norms in any way are too masculine for them.
A woman has a bit of muscle on her? That's too masculine. A woman is confrontational? That's too masculine. A woman has a short temper or a messy emotional outburst? That's another woman written as if she were a male character. Where have all the feminine women gone?
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u/CommonBrilliant7947 Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
And the fact that it’s “ideal” for women to have this sort of “poised confidence” about them or maybe they do confront people but it’s in a more feisty, dark feminine way, that’s good too but it’s already everywhere. I want see more women with BRAVADO
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u/Strange-Cup-2847 Sep 14 '25
It's like any time a woman is too real she's no longer viewed as a woman.
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u/akira2bee Sep 15 '25
This 100% is what I see more than anything. Its very true that there really isn't much butch rep, but at the same time, consistently there's female characters who don't protray femininity the "right" way who are characterized as "man-haters" and inevitably lesbian coded. It might be all they have is short hair and a penchant for working on machines, but that's enough in the eyes of society to think "lesbian".
And then there's frustration from both femme and butch Sapphics about proper representation because all they give us are misshapen breadcrumbs
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u/Thunderplant Sep 14 '25
I think some people have a lot of internalized butchphobia/homophobia/trabsphobia, and so they are upset by the idea of being associated with butches in any way. They want to believe being butch has nothing to do with being lesbian, and ideally, to just never have to acknowledge we exist at all.
It's frustrating how desperate they are to erase large segments of the community for their own comfort. It's not enough for them to just be gender conforming; they feel entitled to insist that being gay has nothing to do with that at all for anyone else either. Never mind that gender nonconforming people actually are way more likely to be queer, it's not convenient to their narrative that gay people are exactly like straight ones except in who we love.
Ironically, masculine of center women in media are wayyy more likely to be straight than they are in real life, at least my experience. If anything, the media actively resists this "stereotype"
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u/grimmfritter Sep 14 '25
There is no such thing as talking about Vi Arcane too much.
…if that’s who you mean XD
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u/CommonBrilliant7947 Sep 14 '25
Omg you’re in the subreddit I started for her I didn’t know you were here too lol
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u/grimmfritter Sep 14 '25
Lmao yeah, thought I recognized the name! I lurk here mostly but I’m getting a little more active :)
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u/robotsexsymbol Sep 14 '25
I find most of these people don't really know anything about lesbians in media and have never paid attention to or been alive to witness cultural stereotypes of queer people. Like it's straight up not even based on anything they've actually witnessed, they have just seen other people say it on tiktok or something and it sounds and feels right because butch lesbians are the most visually identifiable type of lesbian.
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u/T3chn1colour Butch Sep 14 '25
Imo it's because people think we're icky so the few examples stick out in their mind. Hate is all consuming and takes up all their brain space
Also, there is no such thing as too much Vi 😈
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u/Smooshie1592 Sep 14 '25
Because the only amount they can handle is zero, it's like how you rarely see normal looking people on American TV - they're all these eerily perfect people made to be as "hot" as possible. On a similar note it's kind of why people say "why can't we just have female friendships for once" at every f/f ship despite the fact that it's super rare to see any lesbian ships in media. It just makes them uncomfortable.
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u/opengrimoire Sep 14 '25
Imo it's because it happens to gay men (many fem men characters being gay) and so a lot of people think the "same" happens for lesbians without thinking deeply about it.
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u/butchdykery Sep 14 '25
There is a stereotype that lesbians have short hair and wear flannels, and there is some masc representation, but there's almost no butch representation. I can count on one hand the number of butches in media I can think of who are openly, unquestioningly butch.
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u/scissorsgrinder Sep 14 '25
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Not even full equality, even just a tiny bit. They don't want to share.
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u/Destined_4_Hades Sep 14 '25
My missus said the same the other day - only Butch really been on the tv was Big Boo in orange is the new black the rest have either been femme or top knot nanny plum type lesbians
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u/eggelemental Sep 14 '25
It’s like that thing where if there’s 10 men and 4 women having a discussion, the men think there were more women than men and that the women dominated the discussion. We as GNC people “should” be seen and not heard, so ANY rep is seen as too much rep/stealing rep from other sapphics.
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u/Elfbutch Butch Sep 14 '25
Okay this topic REALLY speaks to me. It's something I've had a bone to pick and a hill to die on for half of my life (and increasing).
The short answer to your question is what everyone else has been saying: Butchphobia. I originally wanted to say that it was a microaggression, but honestly it's too big to be "micro". In fact, I would go so far as to say that this phrasing (too many/ why does every masc woman have to be a lesbian) is a dogwhistle. It has a similar ring to people asking why two guy or girl characters can't "just be really close friends" every single time.
The long answer is also what everyone else here is saying, that one butch is one butch too many. But I feel like it also dips into the concept of the 'Butch Boogeyman'. The idea that people see a butch in real life and they have to brace themselves around this loud display of queerness/gender nonconformity. And when they see a masculine woman in media they brace the same way because they hold the stereotype in their heads, only to be pleasantly relieved when the stereotype is subverted in some way (she likes men, she has a girly side, she isn't "too" masc, she's just hiding her "real" gender for safety reasons, butches aren't real they can't hurt you, etc.). A great example of this is Mizu from Blue Eyed Samurai. I like the show, but she absolutely raised all my flags regarding this issue. Another example is Cassandra Pentaghast (she's masculine and gorgeous and STRAIGHT.). And even Vi Arcane, whom I LOVE, falls into this. She's portrayed with a face full of makeup and a semi-feminine tomboyish hairstyle and clothing. The creators needed to make sure everyone knew she was "still a woman". Someone online actually pointed this phenomenon out by saying, "Entertainment media do go out of their way to 'subvert' the visual and behavioral signals queer people use to identify one another." The way they can "subvert" relies on a general audience-accepted stereotype, in this case, that of the butch lesbian.
Same thing with the phenomenon of essays and articles talking about female characters and how masculine ones are always bashed for "being like a man" as if masculine female characters were some unbelievable, unrealistic thing. It stems from the same place.
I could also go into complex gender dynamics and what butchness means for profits and how our existence throws a couple wrenches into western capitalist patriarchical culture (along with other visibly queer people) and why showing us onscreen is not seen as a good financial or systemic decision etc. But I won't lol.
TL;DR. Butchphobia/homophobia. I'm glad other people notice this and are on the same page. It's deeply frustrating to me and it's something I think about constantly.
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u/AcidicCart Sep 15 '25 edited Sep 15 '25
Thank you so much for mentioning blue eyed samurai!! I was enjoying the show so much thinking it’s one of the first I’ve seen with a historical, GNC, queer female lead until she immediately starts catching feelings for the asshole! Never been more disappointed especially after that scene with her and the second fl
And I so agree on the “softening” of butch/butch-adjacent characters! And whats crazy is it’s so common in actual lesbian books made for and by queer women! It’s always given me a weird feeling and you’ve put it into words so well! My biggest problem with these stereotypes is how they purposefully present butch characters as standoffish or mean, when most butches irl are the total opposite. The only media I’ve found the presented a realistic butch was Right number, wrong woman by Jae, and Denny’s the most relatable and kind masculine woman ever.
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u/NonsensicalGay Sep 15 '25
I felt the exact same way about Blue Eye Samurai. I otherwise really enjoyed the show and Mizu as a character, but I was totally crushed by the episode with her husband. I suppose it's my own fault for getting excited and building her up in my mind to be something she wasn't, but it still sucked.
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u/Elfbutch Butch Sep 15 '25
Absolutely. I'm so relieved that other people feel this way about Mizu too. It's very rare that butches are allowed to be truly handsome and cool and Mizu would have been one of the best if she had been Butch.
And as for sensitive butches that feel real, I think that's why people kinda lost their minds over Gideon from the Locked Tomb series. She's a surprisingly sensitive butch character. I was definitely pleased with how Tamsyn Muir handles her.
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u/akira2bee Sep 15 '25
The idea that people see a butch in real life and they have to brace themselves around this loud display of queerness/gender nonconformity. And when they see a masculine woman in media they brace the same way because they hold the stereotype in their heads, only to be pleasantly relieved when the stereotype is subverted in some way (she likes men, she has a girly side, she isn't "too" masc, she's just hiding her "real" gender for safety reasons, butches aren't real they can't hurt you, etc
Wow, you really put into words something I've only ever felt a vibe of and didn't fully realize was a thing until now
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u/Elfbutch Butch Sep 15 '25
It's really subtle! I took me a long time to put it into words too. It's actually kind of insidious because if you try to call people on it, they get so defensive, and say that you're overreacting. I thought I was imagining the vibe for such a long time.
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Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Elfbutch Butch Sep 14 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
Ah!! You used 'Bogeyman' to describe it too! That's exactly what I was thinking! Reading this thread has been so refreshing because everyone seems to be on the same page. It definitely helps with the isolation I feel when I encounter this problem. Thanks for helping build those community bridges with responses like this~☆
Edit: I reread your comment and wanted to remark on how concisely put-together and well-written it is. It reads elegantly and connects a lot of thoughts I have on the subject.
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u/Peaceful_newt Sep 14 '25
I feel like my answer is just going to echo what everyone else has already said. I will say, in a way I'm glad all of the bigots are letting us know who they are now. I've got a shorter list of people to GAF about.
May I ask for the name of this movie? I'm having a gay movie marathon this month.
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u/T3chn1colour Butch Sep 14 '25
I am almost entirely certain op is talking about Vi from the tv show Arcane. She's like, the one animated butch woman I can think of haha
The show is beautifully animated and the story is pretty good (they lost me a bit in season 2 though 😭). It's based on the game League of Legends but you don't need to know anything about that to watch
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u/hi_i_am_J Sep 14 '25
dont even understand complaining about the presence of butch lesbians.
like god forbid a masc woman exist i guess?
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u/QizilbashWoman Sep 14 '25
There's a truly spectactular Korean film called Ballerina (like 100x superior to the recent John Wick movie, full apologies to John Wick but it's true) and the butch protagonist in it is actually butch, but played by a non-butch woman and it's a little frustrating.
God, what an underrated film this is.
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u/pabst_bleu_cheese Sep 14 '25
Hmmm sounds like another case of people confusing personal preference for sociological fact.
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u/ExystentyalCrysys Sep 15 '25
Men generally only want women in public they might have a chance to put their dick in. Otherwise, the rest of us can fuck off and die. Femmes, they appear to think, are really bi or flexible, wrongly. They don’t even have as much of a problem with gay men because they still center men. It pretty much about selfishness and phallocentric thinking. I WISH they was more butch representation that actually was openly queer. It might not have taken me so long to figure shit out.
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u/Ok_Tree_4667 Sep 17 '25
Check out this research paper on the subject — one of my faves: https://dspace.library.uvic.ca/items/ed9e7312-11c7-40df-a408-727b6002ea94
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u/beeikea Sep 14 '25
the butchest social media can handle is ellen degeneres