The connection between Baizhu and Pantalone was pretty obvious from the start. But the nature of their connection is still unknown.

My theory: Baizhu is a segment of Pantalone created by Dottore. Maybe even unknowingly to Pantalone.(Probably a theory already brought up but I feel reassessment could be worth it in the light of the new quests).

I think it went down like this: Pantalone felt like his benevolence is a weakness he needs to get rid of in order to follow his plans more ruthlessly. He turns to the doctor (maybe as part of their contract) and Dottore saw an irresistible opportunity for an experiment and takes the undesirable parts of Pantalone, creating Baizhu in the process.

Baizhu and Pantalone still share their immense drive to defy rules imposed by gods. Ironically, only the benevolent part got granted the vision, which would add another dimension to his tragic character and (if pantalone knows of Baizhus existence) would even fuel more rage and resentment.

Problem to this theory: There is very little indication in the game for any of this. Maybe you guys can help gather evidence for and against this theory.

I've been thinking about Pantalone for a while. Especially his design that weirdly has similarities with the Vishaps. I won't get into that too much, but I think its relevant to all this somehow.

What I wanna talk about proper is, why is his seat the 9th seat? There's a lot of debate on how the ranking system works for the harbingers. A lot of people say its seniority, others say its "usefulness" or "influence" and others say its raw combat capability. I don't think it's any of these alone, but I do think that combat capability is the one factor that matters the most.

If we look at the top 4 we can notice a trend. We know for a fact that all of them are excellent combatants and/or their power is comparable to that of Archons. Il Capitano, who is ranked 1, seems to purely be ranked based on his power alone, meaning if you are strong enough your ranking will surpass anyone below you.

So with this in mind, you'd think Tartaglia would be ranked over Pantalone right? It would seem like a relatively truthful assumption that Tartaglia is at the very least more powerful than Pantalone.

...but what if he's not?

We know that the Harbingers get delusions. We also know that Pantalone does not have a vision. I only noticed this recently, but Pantalone has strands of white hair, something that happens when visionless people use delusions.

Visions are powered by ambition, and presumably the things that drive you forward, so I think it would be a fair assumption that their opposites -- the delusions -- are fueled by negative traits such as rage and bitterness. Thematically this would also fit, as generally "dark powers" in fiction are further powered by negative emotions.

So how does all of that relate to Pantalone? From the small pieces of story we have that relate to him, we've learned that he is a VERY bitter and angry person. In fact he is so bitter to the gods, that his whole life goal is motivated by disdain for them. I think that his Delusion is somehow super-charged. He probably uses his Delusion a lot, causing the effects to be noticeable in his physical appearance, and his anger being so strong that his Delusion is stronger than normal, hence being ranked above Childe.

I'm rambling a bit, but my main point is that whenever we do encounter Pantalone, I think we will be surprised by his combat prowess and I think that we will learn a lot about the delusions through him.

Now with the bomb mihoyo dropped. One of the things that immediately got many of our attention is the uncanny resemblance between dr.baizhu and dottore. I’m writing this post not necessarily to confirm or deny this theory but to highlight how there’s more similarities between the two than just their design. Of course these can all be coincidences but I guess I’ll leave that up for you to decide that.

First i'll start with pointing out dottore’s relationship with pantalone in the commedia dell arte:

-the doctor was first introduced and made to be the direct counterpart or direct foil to pantalone. “Pantalone being the decadent wealthy merchant, and Il Dottore being the decadent erudite”(wiki). Interestingly enough though, we don’t see much interaction between the two or many similarities in Genshin. Both share similar personalities in the commedia dell arte but the play focuses their traits on two different things. Both are noted to be greedy and quite self absorbent especially when it comes to money. For the doctor it is knowledge/though he still quite likes money and for pantalone it is wealth. Hence the two are either seen as clashing often as competitors or friends.Given that they’re literally supposed to be represent two sides of the same coin and be alter egos of each other you’d expect they’d have a bit more resemblance in the look department or more interactions atleast. Dottore from leakers and shown in the recent video is shown to be a lot more cold and calculating and so far hasn’t shown any traits that point to greed especially regarding money(yet). This could be due to the lack of harbingers we’ve seen or for a different reason.

As for dr. Baizhu he’s explicitly noted to be quite greedy and participates in questionable business practices. From the Genshin wiki: “Despite the genuine efficacy of his medical practices, his business practices tend to be shady. Changsheng remarks he is pleased to have found new people to fleece after the sale of Everlasting Incense to the Traveler and Zhongli, although Baizhu does not appear to mind her warnings.[14] Despite Changsheng's suggestions of Baizhu's own questionable conduct, he has also had dealings with the legal advisor Yanfei about charlatans selling ineffective remedies. To Paimon, his sly attitude during their first two meetings seemed strange, yet Yanfei brushed off her concerns and claimed that Baizhu has always acted that way”.

In addition. When Zhongli asks for the incense dr. Baizhu marks it at the price of 3 million mora purposely making it completely overpriced. Which shows A. He likes mora B. likes selling things at inflated prices and swindling customers which does show greed.

While pantalone’s obsession with wealth both within the game and in the play are self explanatory. The other alias he goes by “regrator” (or regrater) is a person who purchases goods from a market, then resells that item in the same (or nearby) market at an inflated price(sound familiar?).

We also see in both (eng) dubs that both like speaking in a particulary flamboyant manner. Baizhu is noticeably more exaggerated. But the way they accent their words is uncanny.

Baizhu: clip (0:54)https://youtu.be/pHCsL7jbKJ4

Pantalone: clip (1:09)https://youtu.be/TmaAOV4SJNQ

However I can only comment on the eng dub. I don’t speak Korean, Japanese, or Chinese so I can neither confirm or deny whether their manner of speaking being similar is true for all dubs.

Perhaps, The reason why pantalone doesn’t look like dottore or share the same personality traits (so far that we’ve seen at least) is because he’s meant to be the foil to a different doctor; he purposely shares the same mannerisms,characteristics, and looks as dr.baizhu instead because he’s meant to be dr. baizhu’s foil/counterpart. And we know that the two already have similar mannerisms, both come from Liyue(pantalone heavily implied atleast), key personality traits of being greedy, exact same way of speaking flamboyantly(eng), love for inflating prices, but share one key difference that sets them apart: one has a vision and the other does not. Baizhu having a vision and pantalone lacking one could possibly be to explain and emphasize how their ambitions differ from one another just like how commedia dell arte emphasizes how their ambitions are different. In addition, another foil aspect is in their design. While they share the same silhouette and core features of hairstyle, glasses, eye-shape, and smug smile the color difference is what pops out. Baizhu’s outfit is really bright and pops with color. Purple pants, bright green hair, light blue coat, gold accessories, save for his shoes There isn’t a single ounce of grey in their. This is in contrast to pantalone’s design. Black hair, black shirt, complete with jewels that are muted dark blue. This color difference is a common technique that writers use to portray the contrast between foils. However, if we were to run with this theory you can take this in many directions. They could simply not be biologically related but still be foils to each other(naruto and sasuke) and their resemblance is simply to highlight the narrative relationship, actually biologically related, or one might be a clone of some sort,etc.

Now whether or not you agree with the theory I still feel like Baizhu is being set up with something greater. His quest for immortality, him being a genius in medical science that’s yet to be explained, him “by chance” coincidentally happens to stumble upon qiqi an undead anomaly, his “sickness”, the fact that Zhongli doesn’t even recognize him or know him(say what you want but Zhongli knows a lot of things and a lot of people, he also loves his tea and his herbs and yet when it comes to the infamous owner of the most renowned medicinal institution in Liyue who literally takes care of an undead child that was brought back to life by the adepti themselves and suddenly “never heard of him before”), and how he has a bunch of rumors surrounding him because he’s so mysterious. I just feel like there’s more to him.

As for counterpoints to the theory. Of course it’s plausible we just haven’t seen much of dottore and more similarities will start to pop up over time between them. Or it’s possible that hoyo will leave out some of those dynamics between the commedia dell arte characters (such as columbina’s relationship with arlecchino and being the wife of Pierro). And obviously these could just be loose connections/coincidences.

All in all if it’s true they share some connection this might give us insight into how hoyo will incorporate what was originally made to be dynamics between the commedia dell arte characters into Genshin by changing those dynamics to fit the harbingers relationship with certain non-fatui characters who also share an important role in the lore. Some atleast, core traits would still probably be there and some dynamics could still be present amongst the harbingers.

Apologies if the flair is wrong this is my first time posting here.

Hi All! Spoilers for the new quest.

So, I do not for a second believe this was just a random sidequest for us to have an excuse for Yelan to be given an alternative outfit. We get some valuable intel that she's on the way to Nod-Krai to meet another potential person of intel. But I think this quest is a small stepping stone to a much larger one in her overall arching story with Pantalone.

Recall, Yelan got her coat from infiltrating Pantalone's secret trade route and got ahold of it, which was intended as a gift to the Tsaritsa. The most important thing here though, is that she was motivated to do so during after an operation where she lost one of her Fascinating Bracelets.

When she beats Rovere Pellicia in this quest (who's last name is Italian for 'Fur' fyi, coincidence?) she is extraordinarily cruel in laying out his punishment and how he'll spend the rest of his days. To my knowledge, there never really was any mention of Rovere committing any other crimes other than money laundering which, while illegal, isn't necessarily itself evil. And before she fights him she says "He's not the only one with a score to settle".

I firmly believe that Rovere actually is a launderer on behalf of Pantalone, and is involved with Yelan losing her bracelet, which is not only why this is supremely personal to her, but also why she is so aggressive in her condemnation of him. Because it's not just money laundering for himself, but somehow tied into what Pantalone does behind the scenes as well across Teyvat.

This would also explain why she's going to Nod Krai next, because her goal wasnt just some random art money launderer, but a stepping stone to a much larger plan to continue to take down Pantalone, who although isn't necessarily teased at as being one of the members in Nod-Krai. The fact that the Pale Star Edict mobilizes the Fatui in general, safe to say that Yelan is going there for more leads on him to continue to pursue.

I think there's something larger still there with her ancestors who fought in the Chasm (against the monsters from Khaenri'ah) and the meaning/secret behind her bracelets. And so I DO think the other bracelet will be found eventually and prove of some value versus the Abyss. But I can't tell that far from just this sidequest alone. Figured I'd throw these thoughts out there.

Pantalone actually is one of the harbingers alongside Sandrone that has existing lore that can be theorized on. Clues about his background emerge as early as the Chasm Archon Quest and Yelan's Story Quest (Version 2.6). One curious detail on a subjective scale is that both Pantalone and Yelan have dark hair with blue streaks, suggesting they might be related.

Now onto the objective viewpoint, Yelan's ancestor, Boyang, perished in the Chasm disaster 500 years ago alongside the Yaksha Bosacius. His younger brother, Rongzhao, survived but succumbed to madness due to Bosacius' lingering karma.

"One possibility is that when they fought alongside Bosacius, they were tainted by his karma. Neither of them had Visions, so they wouldn't have been able to resist its effects for very long."
— Yelan

Rongzhao sought temporary relief at Wangshu Inn, where Xiao's aura mitigated his suffering:

"Apparently, the only time that our ancestor would gain some temporary relief from his insanity was when passing by the *Wangshu Inn. It must have been the comforting effect of his presence that wards off evil spirits."*
— **Yelan (About Xiao)

It implies that a Vision is needed to resist karmic corruption—an observation that ties into Pantalone's resentment toward the gods. The Pale Flame artifact set (Sands: Moment of Cessation) elaborates on his bitterness over divine rejection:

"He was not one of the favored, and could only pursue worldly power. But though money ought to mean nothing to the gods, they held it firmly within their grasp nonetheless, along with the countless other forms of power that they wielded.
Perhaps he lusted for money because he had once been destitute, or *perhaps the fact that the gods had never looked upon him with favor** ignited a burning desire for resistance inside him..."*

Further lore from the Tenacity of the Millelith set (Sands: Orichalceous Time-Dial) describes Millelith soldiers using these timepieces to track battles and stave off karmic corruption. Notably, a black-robed collector—likely Pantalone—purchased these artifacts in a lot of Mora, his motives shrouded in mystery:

"Urban legends tell of a *collector of curios wearing black robes, who roamed the market streets one day, buying up Orichalceous Time-Dials and **paying a generous sum for each one. Some sellers queried him, curious to know what his reasons were, but he deftly deflected all their questions... As for what this individual's true motive was, perhaps only the unyielding forward march of time can finally deliver a satisfying explanation."*

A Speculative Theory

Pantalone may have unknowingly been granted a Vision that he never discovered, leaving it masterless—possibly the very one that later came into Ningguang's possession.

I am 3 years late posting all of this and I see him with this theory with his real name *Rongzhao*.

(Sorry for my terrible English)

I saw some people who say that Pantalone is the normal one, the regular banker. And in the surface, yes, he doesn't look particular or dangerous, he just looks rich. But I think that he is REALLY more that just the Fatui's wallet. Here, everything which make me think about that.

(Sorry if this post is badly structured oof)

Firstly, we all know that he is very rich and he's the head of the Northland Bank. In the lazzo trailer, he clearly mocks/giggles that the Northland's true curency is blood and tear. And we learn by a npc in the NB that a merchant who can't return the loan run away in the mountain, but the Fatui found him, and since this day, the merchant didn't give any news. So let's assumed that this merchant was killed because he wasn't able to give the money back, and that Pantalone manages the debts collectors. How big and useful is his information chain? Does it mean that he has a eye on ALL Liyue ?

Secondly, he is the ninth harbinger, he is just behind Signora who is the eighth. Signora is the crimson witch of flames and if Pantalone is really a regular banker, I don't think that he would be the ninth, the one behind a witch who can use a powerfull technic. Tartaglia also says that their rank is in function of their " strengh " but in chinese he uses " ability ". He is definetly weaker that Signora but maybe he has an another " ability " who compense that ?

We don't have a lot of leak about him. The only one is this, from SYP.

​

Highly intelligent and is important in the plot. We know in the Yelan's character story that he tries to have a spie in the Qixing but failed and recall Theofan in urgence before that Yelan catch him. Him and Yelan are clearly in a mind game, which one is the stronger.

We also know that he was born into poverty and didn't receive a vision. His actual goal is to make Sneznayah the heart of Teyvat's economy. An another npc in the NB says that if Sneznayah is trhiving it's thank to Pantalone. In opposite of Liyue which already had a good economy before Ningguang.

He has a ring with the Haeresy symbol on his forefinger.

​

And because he never receive the attention of the gods, Pantalone has a burnning dessire for ressistence agains them. So what the heck does he want to do...

He never receive a Vision but Tartaglia says that he has a " head full of grandiose plans fueled of raw ambition ". It isn't weird that him with a raw ambition doesn't have a vision? Since vision is a symbol of ambition. I personnaly think that there are two possibility :

1. He doesn't have the type of ambition that Celestia search for give a vision.
2. He has TOO much ambition. We learn from Venti that every vision holder can become an archon. And give to a man with raw ambition a strong artefact, maybe for Celestia it's too dangerous.

+ the name of the artefact about him is "Moment of Cessastion" I think it's a little sus.

So I think that he isn't just a banker. He definetly hides his true strengh or at least doesn't use it often, more focus on Sneznayah's economy.

Here the end of this post. I really can't wait to have more about Harbinger, especially Pantalone, lore. What do you think about him ?

These two characters share very similar backgrounds - both born into poverty, amassed huge amounts of wealth and became powerful people working in finance. A stark contrast between them is that Ningguang received a vision, while Pantalone never received one.

Pantalone desires to make Snezhnaya the financial powerhouse of Teyvat, in direct conflict with Liyue's status and its archon Morax being the god of contracts and trade. In the Moments of Cessation artifact he even implies that he seeks to compete with Liyue:

"The people of the land from which these coins hail revere contracts above all else."
"In the name of money, I shall respect the contract between us..."
"We shall, by whatever means necessary, become the heart that pumps money around the world."
"And, when the moment comes, that heart shall cease beating by our will alone."

​

There's also speculation that Pantalone himself is from Liyue - from his status as a banker and interest in accruing wealth, to his appearance in the teyvat interlude chapter video. He's also been referenced mostly by Liyue related characters/quests, although this could simply be his trade routes and business deals being focused around Liyue.

​

There's two interesting points here:

1) If Pantalone is from Liyue, why did he decide to leave? Assuming he's not ancient, he looks to be around the same age as Ningguang, meaning he and Ningguang would have been direct competitors as they rose from poverty. Do they know of each other, beyond knowing each other as "Tianquan" and "Regrator"?

2) Pantalone's interests directly conflicts with Ningguang's interests, and the interests of the Liyue Qixing in general. What are the latter doing about it?

​

There's not enough info (at least I'm aware of) to comment on the first point, but I'd argue we've seen some evidence of a war of influence between them. We have:

1) The Northland Bank giving our generous loans to people in Liyue. Over time this would indebt many potentially influential traders and merchants to the Fatui

2) Yelan's story quest, where Pantalone tried to have a puppet amid the ranks of the Qixing

3) Yelan, who works for/with Ningguang, directly intercepting one of Pantalone's secret trade routes.

​

If I had to guess, the parallels between Pantalone and Ningguang and his desire to financially destabilize Liyue are not coincidences. Assuming they knew each other before they were powerful and influential, its even possible that part of his ambitions was fueled by jealousy that she got a vision while he didn't.

​

While we probably expect to see Dottore and Scaramouche in Sumeru (and more of the other harbingers further along), I expect we will learn more about (and possibly even see) Pantalone in future Liyue story developments, specifically through Ningguang and Yelan.

Rereading the lore of the Pale Flame artifacts, I‘ve come to a realisation about Pantalone: His plans are already in motion and we‘re witnessing them without being told so.

1. What does the „Moment of Cessation“ have to say about him?

Pantalone desires wealth above all else. He did not have a vision, only being able to seek „worldly power“. Why then does he have this ambition, yet is not rewarded? He likely lived his childhood in poverty. Ningguang, who had a similar youth, had the luck of finding a vision and reawakening it. So what makes Pantalone different? Why is he left wanting again?

1. The character in the Commedia Dell’Arte

There isn‘t all that much to the character beyond being a very rich, money-hungry old man, sometimes a widower, manifesting in inappropriate gestures towards younger women although he is soundly rejected every time. He never forgives, never forgets a slight, and is very petty. (He sounds like a satire of Zhongli if you ask me.) He also often happens to be father to one of a pair of lovers he seeks to keep apart, although the character(s) of the Innamorati (lovers) doesn’t seem present among the Fatui so far.

1. Northland Bank

Where did this bullet point come from? Easy, Pantalone controls it. Founded it, too, most likely, considering what we know of harbinger aging/lifespans. According to Andrei, manager of the Northland Bank in Liyue, Pantalone controls all of Snezhnaya‘s economic policies and according to Goth, he rented out the Grand Hotel in Mondstadt. He‘s got credit.

1. The taking of Morax‘ Gnosis

What was discussed after the rite of parting, after Zhongli the mortal made a contract and signed his Gnosis over to Signora? The Golden House, Teyvat‘s only mint, has to close its doors. Forever, because the Gnosis is required to produce Mora. So no more Mora evermore. Unless…

1. The Ambition

[…] perhaps the fact that the gods had never looked upon him with favor ignited a burning desire for resistance inside him...

Pantalone has been planning this for a long time. Northland Bank, and by extension the Fatui, is incredibly wealthy to the point Childe can figuratively throw money around on a whim to get even a sliver of Intel and receives funding despite at least Signora knowing that the real plan is an entirely different one. Pantalone holds the world‘s wealth in his hands. With the acquisition of Morax’ Gnosis, Northland Bank is able to become Teyvat‘s single financial institution, effectively monopolising currency.

All of this has been playing out during Liyue‘s Archon quest and perhaps, the plan isn‘t even finished.

"We shall, by whatever means necessary, become the heart that pumps money around the world." "And, when the moment comes, that heart shall cease beating by our will alone."

Pantalone plans to overthrow the world in his own way, as all the harbingers seemingly do. For by depriving the world of Mora eventually, change is necessitated. The collateral damage will likely be immeasurable, but that‘s just what „any means necessary“ means.