AI Zen Master

[u/ewk]

Since it's so easy to drop a Zen text or even multiple Zen texts into an llm and ask questions that the llm will answer from the standpoint of the text?

* www.reddit.com/r/Zen/wiki/getstarted

Doesn't it make sense that there would be a lot less confusion and a lot more interesting conversations??

Plus, if you have an llm answer questions about the texts then who better to explain why Zazen Shinto-Buddhism and Alan Epstein Watts are not part of the tradition?

Serious question.

Where are all my AI Zen Masters at?

[u/origin_unknown]

I'd like to see if you can show me where a zen master permits esteem of anything. That would be like putting a fur coat on a rabbit.

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

In as much as we counter the three poisons with effort, then esteem.

But it's contextual. It's not absolute.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

I don't know what you mean by any of that. I don't follow.

To rephrase my question:

Can you provide any text from zen about holding things in esteem or not?

It's my hope to examine this together. Not as adversary.

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

There arent any examples of Zen Masters not knowing about a text or a teacher or not asking about what they don't know.

Thats a demonstration of esteem.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

That's an illusion, and you're dodging the question.

You're equivocating as well. It's not your demonstration, you're appealing to the authority of Zen Masters without anything resembling a quote, which is all that I requested.

Knowing the taste of a lemon, do you hold the lemon in esteem?

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

None of what you're saying is true or fair.

They refer to the poison of ignorance frequently.

They demonstrate an interest in having knowledge and a learning things.

They do not call this a solution to problems. It appears to be rather more a way of meeting people.

But for you to characterize a tradition that opens with the question what do they teach where you come from? as somehow devaluing knowledge is well...

Bull$h!t.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

They they they. All appeals.

For you to accuse "them" of holding knowledge in esteem without any quotes to even suggest it is not justification for blaming me for pointing out they don't, and that's why you can't find any quotes and are reduced to cursing about it.

Bullshit is an accusation.

Even Wisdom is illusory. Ask Nanquan, case #34, gateless gate.

http://home.pon.net/wildrose/gateless-34.htm

I don't appreciate the accusation that I'm the one characterizing the tradition. You're still refusing to provide a quote, making claims that may seem plausible or logical, but logic here is to go back to the original, simple request for a quote. If you can't find a quote, I can't accept your claims, I'm sorry.

---

Your own historical challenge would be to find three quotes.

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

You are confused about appeal to authority.

If I say that the Gettysburg address by Abraham Lincoln represents his views at Gettysburg that's not appeal to authority.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

That's just an accusation of impropriety.

And that's not what you said. Not even close, so your false equivalence doesn't fix your argument.

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

Please look up the term.

You are confused.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

I'll grant that its not exactly a strong case for appeal to authority, but I'll ask that you go back and see that's not exactly what I called it.

They are none the less, assertions without support. I think calling them appeals was just a sharp term, meaning more specifically naked appeals.

This is all still sidetrack on a lack of quotes.

[u/ewk → u/origin_unknown]

One of the other things that's happening here is that and you want them to explicitly define every aspect of their culture. You don't allow any descript their culture based on what they do and what they record themselves as having done.

This is the classic problem with precept behavior. We see all of them always keeping the precepts. They don't tell people to take the precepts. But you can't understand they're teachings if you don't take into account that they're a precept culture.

Maybe try searching "lived practice"

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

It's not about my expectations for zen masters defining anything at all.

More like I can remind you of zen masters like Dahui and Yantou in particular warning about objects of esteem (which is where we started) becoming nests and hindrances.

I wanted to see if you might find it, related quotes about all things esteemed. Instead, it became "my fault" for raising it.

[u/origin_unknown → u/ewk]

There arent any examples of Zen Masters not knowing about a text or a teacher or not asking about what they don't know.

Thats a demonstration of esteem.

Your claim doesn't hold truth.

It's an actual demonstration of you slandering the masters.