I always have to make this distinction that people get wrong a LOT (and it annoys me as someone from the region)
There are no "Bosnians" as an ethnicity, that is a nationality / regional label.
A Bosnian can be
a Bosnian Serb
a Bosnian Croat
or what you are talking about here, a Bosnian Muslim
Bosnian Muslims are also called Bosniaks, which is where the confusion between Bosniak and Bosnian comes from.
Now
As for why they use the flag with the ljiljani (which was the official flag of the RBiH from 1992 to 1998)
It is because during the war, the Bosniaks used the flag, while the Croats and Serbs had their own.
After the war, the new flag (đ§đŚ) was meant to be ethnically neutral, which is why I actually really like the design as a flag of just Bosnia in general, despite basically all 3 ethnic groups in the country not really being fans of it.
But this whole neutral thing left Bosniaks without their own flag.
So they decided to take the old one which they fought under, as by that point it was tied to them.
That old flag was also based off of the medieval coat of arms of the Kingdom of Bosnia (which to me, it's a little ironic a Christian kingdom's symbol is now used by Muslims)
Also the flag of SandĹžak Bosniaks is based off of that flag.
I would say that for Bosniaks they primarily play for Bosnia, Croats and Serbs play if they don't have a place in the Croatian or Serbian team. At the moment several Croats are also playing in the Bosnian team. I only know about Rade Krunic from Serbs that he played/plays.
Nikola KatiÄ and Ivan Ĺ unjic are two of the Croat players on the Bosnian team, and both are regular starters. They both initially chose Croatia, but switched to Bosnia
I felt so sorry for his mistake leading to the goal but he is well cemented there given how he played in recent games. Top keeper, especially now that I found out that he has it in his bloodline and his "jeans" đ
We had many more Bosnian Serb players playing for Bosnia. Besides Krunic, we had Zvjezdan Misimovic, Milan Äuric, Gojko Cimirot, Miroslav Stevanovic, Ognjen VranjeĹĄ, Sinisa Sanicanin, Darko Todorovic, Darijo Saric.. These are just the most famous ones, there are dozens of other Bosnian Serb players who just played a handful of games.
Serbs from the RS primarily support Serbia, and they have an indifferent attitude towards the Bosnian national team and consider it predominantly the bosniak national team.
The largest concentration of Croats in BiH is in Herzegovina, where you have a strong regional identity and they primarily support the Croatian national team. There are Serbs and Croats who support BiH, but hardly anyone will, for example, buy a ticket and go to the game.
Even the largest people in Bosnia and Herzegovina (Bosnian Muslims/Bosniaks) are primarily Bosniaks and then the rest. In my opinion, there is no cohesive factor between the peoples in Bosnia except some pressure to live together and that's it, so some Belgium version is not the case here.
As a Herzegovinian Croat, I find myself to be the minority. Most Herzegovinian Croats who still live in BIH, tend to cheer for whoever is going against BIH, and support the Croatian national Team. Those in the diaspora like me, still Support Croatia as âOurâ Team, but we also cheer for BIH. We will always choose Croatia over BIH though, if it comes to that.
As a Herzegovinian Croat who actually lives here and has some say on the matter, I disagree. I didn't hear anybody cheering for Italy.
I won't say there is nobody, but I would say that most people either support it or are indifferent.
The above dude is a bit wrong on one thing. Bosniaks are an ethnic group who predominantly live in Bosnia. We(am also a Bosniak) are predominantly Muslim, but you can be Bosnian and not a Muslim. Like myself for example.
The opposite is also true for a lot of Bosniaks: they have Serb or Croat last names, but due to Ottoman occupation 500 years ago, their ancestors converted to Islam. The most current war in the 90's proved that religion in the region is either tied to family, or to nationality: it isn't a spiritual awakening that is the motivation.
It is literally where the West and East meet, and unfortunately, some people consider that a permanent division line.
"Bosnia and Northern Ireland are very similar", yeah, if only the Bosnian NT were a little more similar (and so weaker) to the Northern Irish NT maybe we would have been at the World Cup. Kudos to you adriatic friend, you deserved it
It's not a Muslim family name, it's a Bosniak family name. Plenty of my ancestors were also non-Muslim, if you go back far enough. Being Bosniak isn't tied to a religion. It's a common misconception. You look at the three big ethnic groups in this country, we were all pagan at one point.
Not quite... before the Ottoman occupation there was the Bosnian Church. A church that lasted for nearly 300 years and was defacto independent from both Catholic and Orthodox churches.
Granted... most later became Bosniak Muslim, but not all.
Being reductionist like that is akin to saying every Arab is a muslim, despite the fact that a significant minority remained Christian.
Not really accurate, because Bosnia & Herzegovina long predate the Ottoman Empire & subsequent spread of Islam in the Balkans. The association of south slavic ethnicity with religion is a much more recent thing, only really since the 1800s, before then there were plenty of Orthodox Croats, Catholic Serbs, and ethnic Bosnians of various Christian denominations.
Christian Bosnians ceased to be an ethnic group long ago
a person today who identifies as an ethnically neutral and non-religious Bosnian is not descended directly from those ancient people, they are descended from modern croat, serb or muslim families (or maybe a mixture)
Brother why are you trying to explain my own country to me. A Bosniak does not have to be Muslim, or did he have to be at any point. Why on Earth would religion have to be necessary for someone to be part of an *ethnic" group?
everybody was catholic, orthodox or muslim
Even ignoring people who were atheists, you had Jews, Roma etc.
I know Bosnian Serbs either support the Serbian team or donât support anyone, not sure about Bosnian Croats but yeah most of the people in that photo and on the team are Bosnian Muslims
This pisses me off to no end. Obviously religion â nationality â ethnicity.
Holy medieval shit mentality to claim otherwise. I am born in Bosnia but I am neither Muslim, Catholic not Orthodox. What am I? Stateless?! My parents and their parents and their parents are all born on that territory. I have no space to claim as my own because I donât claim a religion as my own?! Batshit crazy.
Ethnicity implies background so you'll have to ask your parents. I'm agnostic, born in Bosnia, but my parents are Bosniaks so thats what I am ethnically.
Either way you and me are Bosnian, simple as that. Stateless implies no nationality, which isn't true. The other guy who responded saying he's a Serb, is a Bosnian (nationality) with the Serb ethnicity.
When someone asks me for my background I reply I'm Bosnian. When they ask what ethnicity I reply Bosniak.
But if you converted to Catholic, would you become a Croat ethnically? Or does convertion to Orthodox make you a Serb? Because from what I gather from OOP you can't be a Catholic bosniak, you'll just be a Bosnian Croat then. Just curious here.
Not really. Conversion doesn't change your background/ethnicity. You can try to identify as another if you want but in the end you'll still have a different heritage compared to others in whatever religion you converted to. Whether that matters to anyone depends on who you're asking.
Ok, but then logic follows that ethnicity is tied to something else than religion as claimed here. Something inherent in bosniaks except their muslim identity that differs them from Croat and Serbs.
Not quite, as some Serbs and Croats claim that those symbols are stolen from Christians and they are trying to reclaim it. Some players are Croatian, but I don't think there are any Serbs in the team.
The fact is - all three ethnicities wave the old flag. And as far as Iâm concerned, the more, the better.
The fact that flag is rooted in the medieval Kingdom of Bosnia, a Christian State - hurts nationalists who would like to alienate the Bosniak population from the state of Bosnia and push their propaganda of Bosniaks not belonging in Bosnia.
Paradoxically, in the 90s, Bosniaks voted by a landslide for having the symbol of Bosnian Kingdom on the state flag. It was in a way a reconnection with the identity of Bosnian Kingdom - the last sovereign form of Bosnian State prior to regaining independence in 1992.
Flag may be adopted by Bosniaks in larger proportion than other ethnicities however that doesnât make it a âprimarily Muslim flagâ. There is literally no touch points between Islam and what the flag represents which is one of the reasons it was chosen as the first flag of modern Bosnia.
What I meant by that they voted for it, is - a referendum was held when Bosnia was to proclaim independence from Yugoslavia where voters had possibility to express their thoughts on proposed solution of the state flag, among other things.
Yeah it's also the symbol of the city of Florence. But we and France are close and always had a relationship (good or bad). Bosnia is farther away, so that surprised me too.
It is French fleur de lis actually - Bosnian king (whose family coat of arm it is) assumed throne with help from Capetian (French Royal family) Hungary, so he added it to his symbol.
Thatâs an interesting perspective, though I have to challenge the first part of your argument.
To say there are no 'Bosnians' as an ethnicity overlooks a lot of history. As early as the 12th century, the BoĹĄnjani existed as a distinct Slavic group with their own medieval kingdom and even their own independent Bosnian Church. All three groupsâSerbs, Croats, and Bosniansâshare the same South Slavic roots from the migration period, but they developed unique regional and political identities over centuries. Historically, the Bosnian identity is just as deeply rooted as that of its neighbors.
However, I completely agree with your second point regarding the modern context. In the post-Dayton political reality, the distinction between nationality (Bosnian = citizen of the state) and ethnicity (Bosniak, Serb, Croat) is crucial. Youâre right that 'Bosnian' has shifted toward being a regional/national label, while 'Bosniak' has become the specific ethnic term. It makes perfect sense that the neutral flag feels 'soulless' to many, leading Bosniaks to embrace the 1990s lily flag as a symbol of their specific heritage. Itâs a great observation on why the countryâs symbolism is so fragmented today.
Lilies have always been a symbol of Bosnia; they are not necessarily related to Christianity. They are simply a symbol found throughout history, regardless of religion. I am a Bosniak (even though I donât like that name), and I love this flag because it is a symbol of the Bosnian Kingdom, which I am more proud of than the Ottoman period. Some people who are still obsessed with the war prefer the old flag, believing it is a purely symbol of Bosnian Muslims. However, many people still understand the real meaning behind it. If we were smart, everyone would carry this flagâSerbs and Croats alike. It is definitely better than having a flag of a non-existent country (Herzeg-Bosnia).
The design was created by Zvonimir Bebek who utilized historical materials from the era of King Tvrtko housed in the National Museum in Sarajevo. Due to the logistical impossibility of physically sending a flag to New York at the time, President Alija IzetbegoviÄâs office faxed Bebekâs sketches. In New York, Muhamed Ĺ aÄirbegoviÄ reached out to a small group of women from the BiH diaspora. Dika LemeĹĄ originally from Krajina, sewed the flag in a single day with her friends' help. This flag flew in front of the United Nations during the formal admission of Bosnia and Herzegovina as a full member state.
This flag represents the democratic and secular Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - a cause defended by citizens of every background. Categorizing it as an ethnic symbol ignores the fact that it remains a banner for all who reject the prevailing system of institutionalized ethnic division.
Edit: people be hitting those downvotes but not realising these are actual, verifiable facts and havenât even taken a look at the actual Constitution of the RBiH and compared it tothe current constitution (Annex 4) in use.
Edit2: The expert group consisted of archaeologist Hasan-Mirza Äeman and historian Tihomir GlavaĹĄ from the National Museum, and Dr. Boris NileviÄ from the Institute of History, and for the needs of the visual design of the ideal solution, independent designer Zvonimir Bebek was engaged. The team also included Enver ImamoviÄ, professor of ancient history at the Faculty of Philosophy in Sarajevo, while the coordinator and secretary of the expert group was Vedran HadĹžoviÄ, a graduate lawyer. The legal consultant on behalf of the Constitutional Court of the SR BiH was Kasim Trnka.
The fact that experts of various ethnic/religious backgrounds created it and not people from a single group.
Edit3: The new symbols were presented to the cultural societies Preporod, Napredak, Prosvjeta and La Benevolencija, in order to listen to and agree on any suggestions. All societies agreed to the proposed solution, except for the Serbian Prosvjeta, which was of the opinion that Serbian symbols should be an integral part of the new flag. đđđđđđ
@OP this comment pretty well captures the sentiments of many Bosniaks. They often forget that a war happened after the events described here, in which the Bosniak faction (often viewed by Bosniaks as a multiethnic Bosnian faction, but really it was overwhelmingly Bosniak) used the flag with the Lilly. For this reason, Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs largely view this flag as an ethnic Bosniak flag rather than a symbol representing Bosnia as a whole.
Just want to say that although not an official term, the term Bosnian is used by all citizens who don't want to identify my their ethnic background, most usually people from Yugoslavia that don't like the new nationalist ethnic identities.
So a Bosnian is among the people a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina, while Bosniak is the official name for Bosnian muslims, or anyone who doesn't identify as Serb or Croat. The name Bosniak has nationalist roots and was a last ditch effort at creating an identity.
To many, the term Bosnian is a neutral and preferred way of identifying as simply a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Edit: addendum to the stuff I said in a reply below
But it's not neutral. It carries its own nationalist connotations. As an example just read your sentence again:
So a Bosnian is among the people a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina
Yes, among those people that want a unitary Bosnia and Herzegovina with no institutional recognition of different major ethnicities that inhabit it (and have inhabited it for centuries) and/or recognition of existence of those ethnicities at all.
While I understand it is accepted as a separate term for Bosniaks, I think using Bosnian Muslim as a term for an ethnic group is not a great idea. It ties two identities together because it's generally the case, but it's as accurate as saying that European Americans are Christian Americans, or Arabic immigrants in London are English Muslims. Because hey, most of them are, right?
And adding "Bosnian" in front of each of them isn't needed when you literally started with "A Bosnian can be", you're defining ethnicities in Bosnia, the national identity is already presumed. Bosnia and Herzegovina is predominantly populated by three ethnicities - Bosniak, Serbian, and Croatian. It's straightforward, it's clear.
Anyway your comment's great I'm just autistic thank you bye
"Muslim" used to be the word used instead of "Bosniak" in Yugoslavia, the Austrian and Ottoman empire. You were either Croat, Serbian or Muslim. They didn't even make the distinction between a Slav or a Turk.Â
But being Muslim is what distinguishes them. Bosniaks are not ethnically distinct from Serbs. They are the descendants of the Slavs who converted to Islam, while the Serbs remained Christian
Yes exactly. I identify as a Bosniak even though I was born to a mixed family and ideologically an atheist.
The statement that Bosniak = Bosnian Muslim is wrong because it ignores the entire history of bosniaks before Islam in the region, when the lilly was first used.
well, bosnian often is also a term for a nationality, a civic nationality that refuses to sectarianize politics. serbs and croats all fought under that flag because they opposed the neo-fascist ethnic nationalism that held sway in belgrade and zagreb. catholics and orthodox have no less of a claim to indigeneity in bosnia than muslims. hence bosnian rather than bosniaks. some bosnian muslims still prefer bosnian to bosniak.
Just wanted to sey there are people who do identify just as bosnian i am one of them i heve few friends both muslim and orhadox who also do thet its just rere most people do identify as serbs,croats or bosniak but we do exsist
One thing to note here, Bosnian lillies as a symbol aren't exclusive to Bosniaks. As a Bosniak myself, it was a symbol of Bosnian state long before islam was ever here. I don't think it's fair to "condemn" lillies as its a symbol of entire Bosnia, not just us Bosniaks.
 Bosnians as an ethnic term existed and is proven by the historic documents that span all the way to Constantin. It was an Ilyrian controlled region with its own Banate after the fall of the Roman Empire and then Kingdom. Another argument we can point out on your "ethnicity" claim is a literal term used in the 90s to describe the atrocities happening to the Bosnians during the war, which was literally called "ethnic cleansing". We can clearly see that, while history had not favored the Bosnians, they shared a common ancestry, culture, history and religion, so we can 100% use the term Bosnian as an ethnic term. Bosnian Serbs and Croats are mainly those who possess documents of both countries and have valid proof that their ancestry spans into both cultures and countries, where they are given other options such as voting in both countries. Through refusal of assimilation they live in Bosnia but still would like to emphasise their ethnic roots, which is their right. Now onto the flag, Kingdom of Bosnia has a couple distinct features and those are-yellow lillies which are actually a domestic flower called "lilicum bosniacum", white stripe and a black strip of grape vine which is usually mistaken for crosses(many people get this part wrong, believe it or not. The grape vine actually has historic value to the Kingdom of Bosnia, it was a symbol of a welcoming invitation, not religious expression). It is very important to mention that even in the Kingdom of Bosnia, catholics, orthodox christians AND Muslims all lived together, hinting to the political manouvers shown in the 90s, which was a democratic way of expressing a welcome to all political and ethnic groups into Bosnia, meaning that the adoption of the flag with lillies meant a political, religious and moral neutrality, deeply imbeded into patriotism with its historic symbolism, something the political party of Yugoslavia was literally fighting against and was the exact opposite, aka nationalism. This nationalism continued even after the war, proclaiming that the flag with lillies was a "war flag" and that it promotes hate speech, therefore the lobbying achieved its goal of another, foreign flag being adopted. The country was inna state of rebuilding itself, and could not take a toll of sparkling new conflicts so it adopted the new flag, but the common folk knew which one was actually theirs, and that my friend is the reason why we are using the old flag. It is basically a big fuck you and a middle finger to all those who promote nationalism and every other harmful ideology. (Ps. Apologies for grammar mistakes, wrote this on the fly lol)Â
I work with a bunch of Bosniak/Bosnian Muslims and they self refer as Bosnians so that term is new to me. They are also well aware that the Kingdom of Bosnia was Catholic and thus are annoyed Bosnian Serbs (Iâve never heard them speak about Bosnian Croats) wonât accept the old flag since itâs a religiously neutral symbol already.
Personally Iâm very curious how the blue field with gold fleur de lis was chosen as the kingdom of Bosniaâs symbol since Iâve always associated it with the king of France.
That is the crest with lillies from Family Crest of Tvrtko Kotromanic, and it is real Bosnian flag for that reason. But it was used by Bosniaks during aggression on RBiH.
As ur confusing religion with ethnicity. Bosniak = etnicity, there used to be christian and ortodox bosniaks. There goes ur confusion with a flag from "christian" period of Bosniak history. Many of us are muslims but we are also proud of Bosnian Kingdom history.
Very honest question: we call the people that live there Bosnians, because well... It's called Bosnia. But do you still understand why we call people this way? Since that's how it goes. Don't mean to offend, just honestly asking!
There are Bosnians in an ethnic sense. Ethnicities are made up, all that matters is what people choose to call themselves. Bosnians do not have the same sort of 19th-century European nationalists identity as Croats or Serbs do, but they are still a people.
Serbs are (were) simply the Slavs in that region that were Orthodox, Croats were the Slavs that were Catholic. Likewise many Muslim Bosnians, and others who did not want to get involved in the political struggle between Croatia and Serbia, consider themselves ethnically Bosnian (or Bosniak, ethnically Muslim, Yugoslav etc).
A 1948 survey of Bosnian Muslims found that less than 100.000 considered themselves either Croat or Serb while 778.000 did not choose any of the provided options. In 1953, 892.000 did so (Malcolm (1994), p198). Clearly these people did not consider themselves Croats or Serbs, yet you sit 70 years later and conclude that they could not have an ethnic identity because Serbian and Croatian nationalists have declared that all the peoples of Bosnia are either Serb or Croat (based on pseudoscience and fake history).
I really love (and this is with the biggest level of sarcasm ever) how Bosnians are either Serbs, Croats, or Muslims. Did you mean Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslims instead??? Because you saying Bosnian Serb and Bosnian Croat is exactly why the war occurred. When people use these identifiers in modern times, they spew anti-Muslim propaganda - the same people who say Iâm a Bosnian âwhateverâ never ever support Bosnia. Argue with the wall - they donât. They identify with the latter of that identifier, not the former. And it just furthers spews the bullshit that Bosnia shouldnât exist and should be part of Greater Serbia or Croatia. And as a Bosnian Muslim, Iâll tell yâall right off the cuff: FUCK RS, FUCK YOUR NATIONALISM, and LONG LIVE BOSNIA.
From what I've heard, it's because the current flag was more or less imposed onto the country by the international community. The old flag was associated with just Bosniaks. The new one is supposed to represent all 3 ethnic groups in the country (Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs).
Spoken like someone who hasnât been or lived in Bosnia. As a Bosnian who is Muslim, Iâve worked with people who are very pro-Bosnia and are not Muslim. Catholic and Orthodox. Then there are those who identify as Bosnian Serb and Bosnian Croat and usually they may lean away for a one state system, but def not 50% of the entire country. The actual people are a lot more down to earth than the rotten nationalist politics would have one think. They just want to raise their families and live life. Visit the dam country, go to the areas where the ethnicities are mixed. Is it perfect, no, is it like how u say, no.
Politics are so weird, especially to those who are not there. We tend to generalize on the most extreme voices we hear, when really the average person from country A will get along perfectly fine with another person from country B.
Again, just not feeling attached to a country doesn't imply hating it. Bosnia and Herzegovina is decentralized so its not like one power oppresses the other for strong hate to be formed.
Another thing to keep in mind, 50% if u base it on 2013 population, but there hasn't been a new population list for 13 years and won't be anytime soon - bosnian Serb and Croat parties are blocking it. They obviously don't want people to know the real number today because it would show how much their number got smaller compared to Bosniaks.
Don't get me wrong tho, Bosniaks have largely fled the country too but not in a % close to Croats which already had EU passport and Serbs with bigger job market in Serbia.
Today the number is probably already at 60%+ Bosniaks
Why do ppl think this flag is only for bosniaks? There were so many croats and serbs fighting under that flag too . Its the Bosnian flag ! Its a cristian flag with heritage . Its the flag that defended bosnia from its agressors.
Putting a geographic outline on a new flag is often meant as a neutral design (=lowest common denominator), but devoid of any historical symbolism whatsoever.
Most people who identify as either Bosniak or Bosnian as an ethnicity resonate with the Republic flag because it was the first flag adopted by the Bosnian state after declaring independence and it's the only flag that has symbols tied to the Bosniak ethnicity.
The current flag was designed by a foreigner and adopted by a foreign office the OHR that settled the post war debate of flag change, no one was left happy with the addoption. Serbs did not want to grant legitimacy to the state they hated with a flag, Bosniaks hated the flag as it had no ties to Bosnia's history or culture, and Croats were somewhere in the middle.
This is not to say the current flag is not used, it's still very common as it is the state flag and mixed communities often settle for the state flag rather then displaying 2-3 different ethnic flags on every street corner.
Why do people rarely refer to the country by its full name of Bosnia and Herzegovina? The country has Bosniacs, Croats and Serbs but what is a Herzegovinan?
Bosnia, and, Herzegovina are both geographical regions. The southern part of the country, with rocky terrain and tropical climate is called Herzegovina.
Itâs not the flags fault that a good chunk of BiH disapproves of its very existence.
The flag has plenty of symbols and meanings in its design, itâs just how that meaning interacts with peopleâs beliefs that give it its popularity, or lack there of.
In this instance, since non bosniak Bosnians typically play for their ethnic republic, the use of the old flag has an ethnic undertone to it, in a way the official BiH flag intentionally avoids.
Symbols and meanings change over time, hell, I doubt the KotromaniÄâs wouldâve been chuffed with their coat of arms being a symbol of self identification for Muslims in their old kingdom.
While the designer of the new flag used what historical ideals, colour's etc...
His interpretation landed flat with many it seems. So Id argue due to that and the general rejection of the flag by the populace, it has no real meaning.
The old flag is based off the Bosnian kingdom in the middle ages, the house of KotromaniÄ (who were christians, muslims didn't exist there at the time).
I find it ridiculous that people think it's a muslim thing, I'd be happy to see non muslims rock it, it's just authentically bosnian regardless of religion..
That's the thing with the symbols. The important thing is what they symbolises today not what they really are. Take nazi cross as an example. Or nazi salute that is actually Roman... Originally they had a different meaning. I am a Serb and even though we like and respect all of our medieval houses including Kotromanic, today we know that whoever wave that sigil on a white background is a Bosniak nationalist. Which is ironic in so many ways.
The simple answer is that the Golden Lily represent the native Bosnian people (Bosniaks âď¸).
Just like the red chess pattern represents the native Croatian people and the four "C" represent the native Serbian people.
But unlike Croatians who rule Croatia and Serbs who rule Serbia. Bosniaks have to share the rule of Bosnia with the other two, hence why the official flag is the yellow triangle.
All while to this day you get a idiotic claim about there not being any "native Bosnians" and that "Muslims" in Bosnia are the first/third ethnic group.
If this was true, ask yourself, what would you call a Bosnian born person who is atheist and is neither a Croat or Serb?
It's just old propaganda ever since Croatia and Serbia wanted to split up Bosnia. Similar to when Russia says "There are no native Ukrainians".
PS #1: The Golden Lilly was used as the symbol for the then Kingdom Of Bosnia, before the Ottoman Empire invaded South Europe and brought Islam with it.
PS #2: Bosniaks are more than 50% of the population of Bosnia, in a democracy that means they rule the country, though their votes. But that's only true for Croats/Croatia and Serbs/Serbia not for Bosniaks/Bosnia.
They felt the current flag was opposed onto them by the international community. Because the international community wanted a flag that was for all ethnic groups of Bosnia. I.E. Bosnian Croats, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnians. But Bosnians prefer the old flag which represents bosnians and bosnians alone.
all ethnic groups of Bosnia. I.E. Bosnian Croats, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnians. But Bosnians prefer the old flag which represents bosnians and bosnians alone
You mean Bosnian muslims? Are the others not Bosnians? Not trying to be smart, just trying to understand.
The emblem itself predates Islam in the region, as the symbol of Medieval Bosnia, which was very much Christian. But the fact that it was used by Bosniaks or Bosnian Muslims in the war, and the Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats had their own ethnic flags, means it is largely associated with Bosniaks.
After the war, the new flag was designed to be as neutral to all parties as possible. Like most things designed by a committee with the intention of not offending anyone, it offended everyone it was supposed to represent.
Not really. Serbs initially overwhelmingly rejected independence and therefore the flag of the nescent state. That leaves us with just Croats and Muslims (since 1993 renamed to Bosniaks) that supported a country with such a flag.
However, as disputes from 1992 escalated into a one year conflict between Croats and Bosniaks, the flag was used just by Bosniak forces.
Since the new flag was adopted, the old flag has become the de-facto ethnic/national flag of Bosniaks only.
So no, it is not "our own" as it does not represent half the country.
The flag from the photo is the first flag of the independent Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the flag under which Bosnia was admitted to the UN and the flag under which the country fought a defensive war.
The new flag is a flag that no one in Bosnia and Herzegovina chose, but was imposed by the decision of the so-called High Representative (more on that on another occasion). The current flag has no symbolic, historical, or any other value.
We use both, but we prefer the old one (or as we call it, the right one). Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats never truly accepted the neutral, imposed flag, and even today, it is still mostly used only by Bosniaks.
Yes, that's the ironic part. The new flag that everyone is supposed to use is still only really used by Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats also don't care about it and only use it when its forced on them.
What is the reason for people to use their traditional flag that symbolise their own ethnic nation instead of some flag that was chosen by Spanish overseer in order to be specifically NON-ETHNIC and vague? Current flag was created in order to vaguely âintegrateâ and include everyone - but out of three main nationalities that live in Bosnia and Hertzegovina, two have also their own countries (Croatia and Serbia), football teams and their own national flags  - why would Bosnians use flag created explicitly in order to make sure that it will represents not only them?
Simple, the lily flag is what the country was recognized under, itâs rooted in history , itâs connected to Bosnia⌠itâs the flag that flew at the UN when the country was recognized.
The ânewâ one is some bullshit some spanish dude made and told us we should all love itâŚ. itâs shit and nobody cares for it.
The old flag is the flag of independence from Yugoslavia. Most comments will say it's a Bosniak only flag, it's not. It was the flag of independent BiH from 1992 - 1998. The six golden lilies represent the Lilium bosniacum and are a reference back to the medieval Bosnian Kingdom (14th century)
It was designed by Zvonimir Bebek and Enver ImamoviÄ so this idea that the flag was only meant to represent Bosniaks is completely manufactured by propaganda.
The situation is as follows: when people in Bosnia began identifying themselves in the way that religion equaled nationality, Catholics started identifying as Croats and Orthodox Christians as Serbs. There are texts stating that in this land lived Bosnians of three religions. The national symbol was the lily (from the period of King Tvrtko I and the bans before him).
In Yugoslavia, Bosniaks, who were predominantly Muslim, declared themselves as Yugoslavs or as âMuslimsâ (in a national sense). In 1974, Hamdija Pozderac, a leader of the âMuslimsâ in Titoâs Yugoslavia, during constitutional changes attempted to introduce a decree that would give the name âBosniaksâ to Muslims, considering it a âhistorical nameâ used by members of this people throughout historyâcontinuously from the Middle Ages (in the form âBoĹĄnjaniâ), then during the Ottoman Empire (âBoĹĄnjaciâ), as well as in the Austro-Hungarian Empire up until World War I (âBoĹĄnjaciâ), and later during Yugoslavia in colloquial use (the terms Bosnians and Bosniaks used interchangeably).
With the breakup of Yugoslavia, three factions emerged in Bosnia, each representing its own interests. The Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina had a flag (https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armija_Republike_Bosne_i_Hercegovine) similar to the state flag from 1992 to 1998. The Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina was the most multiethnic and included commanders who were Orthodox and Catholic; one example is the âI slavna pravoslavnaâ That unit included members of the Orthodox faith; there were others as well, but this is the most well-known one.. During the war, Croats and Bosniaks made an agreement and fought together. In 1995, the Dayton Agreement was signed, stating that Bosnia and Herzegovina continues the legal continuity of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (whose flag you see in the image).
Now comes an irony: in some circles, politicians from the entity Republika Srpska consider both the lilies and King Tvrtko as part of their own heritage due to their interpretation of history. There is even a lily on their coat of arms. The flag in the image is similar to the flag of the medieval Kingdom of Bosnia, and it is mostly used by Bosniaks of Islamic faith, as they see it as part of their historical identity. Many identify with their ancestors who accepted Islam during the Ottoman period, but before that were members of the Bosnian Church, which had been declared heretical by the Catholic Church. Ban Kulin, at Bilino Polje, received the Popeâs envoy and formally converted to Catholicism.
There are many more historical events and disagreements, but the main issue is that ancestors converted to Islam during the arrival of the Ottoman Empire. We, as their direct descendants, are today Muslims, while others impose a narrative that we came from present-day Turkey and are their descendants, which makes no sense at all
I must say the flagâs symbolism is strange. The fleur de lys on blue is typically interpreted as a reference to the Virgin Mary, more revered by Christians than Muslims. The three crescent moons is an Ottoman symbol. The green background is very traditionally Muslim. But I do understand that recent history can complicate the meanings of symbols. The Red Ensign in my country has aquired an unwelcome meaning because of its use by violent radicals.
You are wrong , educate yourself, internet is free and books are not just for standing in shelves.I will not explain to you something that is free in history books or history channels.I don't want you to think I'm hating you I'm making facts.God be with you.
I will say most Educated people from BIH would want a unified version of the flag some dont even like the current one and would prefer a more unified flag for the 3 peoples i would say this one could be nice
ngl I saw this explained somewhere before, its usually about historical identity/nostalgia for the earlier post-war flag vs the one they adopted later, right? đ¤
Bosnia and Herzegovina is a multi-ethnic nation. There are three major groups and all of them are fervently nationalist.
Serbs (mostly Orthodox) are secessionist and think their portion of the country should split and join neighboring Serbia. Croats (mostly Catholic) think the same, for neighboring Croatia.
That leaves Bosniaks (mostly Muslim) who are federalist and for the most part just think that the country should be held together.
Since Croats and Serbs love using some versions of their ethnic flags, the old 1990s flag with lilies has become like an unofficial flag of Bosniaks i.e. Muslims.
(Althoug ethnic labels are complicated. Bosniaks are their own ethnic group, but they have officially started calling themselves that around 1993, during the war. Before that, in the Yugoslav era, the census referred to them as âMuslims by ethnicityâ (as in, âMuslimâ was used as an ethnic label, rather than a religious affiliation.)
In any case, the ânewâ post-war flag was adopted precisely because the country needed a neutral symbol that would be unoffensive to everyone, which is why they came up with the rather bland design that deliberately avoids using any ethnic colors.
But it did not reall catch on, and itâs still a very tribalist society. Bosnian mentality, regardless of ethnic group, is very much stuck in the medieval times, and across the board they struggle to define themselves in categories that the modern industrial world would understand.
Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs are taught to think that their ethnicity is hard-coded into their DNA, and Bosniaks are insisting that the âMuslimâ label is deeply offensive (yes, you can be a secular Bosniak or a Muslim Bosniak - but also there are exactly zero Catholic or Orthodox Bosniaks).
Itâs a contry that defines everything through this weird tribalism. And any group that doesnât fit this tripartite concept of identity is literally labelled as âOthers.â
(Donât even ask about the Jews or the Roma, who also happen to live there. They have no flags of their own and are treated as non-existent.)
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u/fr1ri Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
I always have to make this distinction that people get wrong a LOT (and it annoys me as someone from the region)
There are no "Bosnians" as an ethnicity, that is a nationality / regional label.
A Bosnian can be
Bosnian Muslims are also called Bosniaks, which is where the confusion between Bosniak and Bosnian comes from.
Now
As for why they use the flag with the ljiljani (which was the official flag of the RBiH from 1992 to 1998)
It is because during the war, the Bosniaks used the flag, while the Croats and Serbs had their own.
After the war, the new flag (đ§đŚ) was meant to be ethnically neutral, which is why I actually really like the design as a flag of just Bosnia in general, despite basically all 3 ethnic groups in the country not really being fans of it.
But this whole neutral thing left Bosniaks without their own flag.
So they decided to take the old one which they fought under, as by that point it was tied to them.
That old flag was also based off of the medieval coat of arms of the Kingdom of Bosnia (which to me, it's a little ironic a Christian kingdom's symbol is now used by Muslims)
Also the flag of SandĹžak Bosniaks is based off of that flag.