r/vexillology • u/Bob_Spud • Jan 03 '26
Discussion The 1901 flag proposed by Mark Twain (American writer) as a commentary on the US invasion of the Philippines.
Does it have relevance today?
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u/DingoLaLingo Jan 04 '26
i would recommend that everyone read Mark Twain’s War Prayer (here reprinted, ironically, by the US Marine Corps University). it was prescient and remains prescient
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u/dhkendall Winnipeg Jan 03 '26
Amazing he would propose a flag with 50 skulls when there was only 45 states in 1901.
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u/Bob_Spud Jan 03 '26
Mark Twain didn't stipulate the number of stars, it can used for a contemporary flag.
His exact words were:
And as for a flag for the Philippine Province, it is easily managed. We can have a special one—our States do it: we can have just our usual flag, with the white stripes painted black and the stars replaced by the skull and cross-bones.”
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u/Superior_Mirage Jan 03 '26
I strongly suspect that he meant one big skull and crossbones.
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u/cengynely Jan 20 '26
A skull and crossbones wouldsend a clear message about the consequences of imperialism. twain had a knack for dark humor, so it wouldn’t be out of character for him to use such imagery
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u/SafetyNoodle Jan 04 '26
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u/LittleMissPipebomb Transgender • Zheleznogorsk Jan 04 '26
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Jan 04 '26
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u/LittleMissPipebomb Transgender • Zheleznogorsk Jan 04 '26
I literally just used the magic wand tool on something from Google images. Wasn't being too careful with it, didn't really see a point. Anyone that wants to use it for anything will probably create a better version.
But it's not AI so it passes the bar for being acceptable
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Jan 04 '26
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u/LittleMissPipebomb Transgender • Zheleznogorsk Jan 04 '26
Has a watermark so you can at least find the source
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u/TapdotWater Jan 04 '26
AI also uses considerably more potable water to create a worse product anyway so it's not like your precious plagiarism machine wins this moral victory anyway
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u/KranPolo Jan 04 '26
The AI steals artwork without transparency as to where it is stealing from and profits from people using its company’s proprietary stealing technology.
It refutes the intellectual property rights of others yet asserts the existence of those rights for itself.
Although generating the image and making the image in this case appear similar at face value there are substantive differences.
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u/Pen_Front Jan 04 '26
That is not the only reason that ai is so bad just the most prominent, and this isn't the same anyway
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Jan 04 '26
God you people are hopeless.
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u/ramenups Jan 04 '26
“ChatGPT someone on reddit told me I was hopeless, come up with an epic comeback that will get me a ton of upvotes”
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u/Eorrosoom Jan 04 '26
Just embrace AI, don't resist it.
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u/TheRealJuralumin Cornwall • Melbourne Jan 04 '26
That's what they said about NFTs
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u/Valiant_tank Jan 04 '26
And crypto! It was supposed to replace normal currencies back when the hype around it was at its peak, let's not forget.
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u/DrJackadoodle Jan 04 '26
Do you seriously think AI is a fad?
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u/TheRealJuralumin Cornwall • Melbourne Jan 04 '26 edited Jan 05 '26
No, but I do think that it's a bubble destined to burst, I also think that the data centers using up massive ammounts of water and electricity are unsustainable.
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u/TheJackalopeHD Jan 05 '26
AI has some important uses, and some good general uses. But the vast majority of it is over leveraged capitalists stuck in a bubble pushing out dogshit that’s killing the planet and making people dumber
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u/mrpoggers9 Jan 04 '26
if you were alive in the 1800's you'd love eugenics and race science
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u/SpaceBar0873 Principality of Sealand • Ireland Jan 04 '26
that is such a strawman i don't know what even to say now. even chatgpt can come up with slop better than this
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u/mrpoggers9 Jan 04 '26
it's not a strawman lmao
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u/DrJackadoodle Jan 04 '26
Yes it is. A better comparison would be "if you were alive in the 1800's you'd love steam engines". Eugenics and race science aren't disruptive technologies with benefits and downsides, they're just bad science and racism.
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u/SpaceBar0873 Principality of Sealand • Ireland Jan 04 '26
whatever you say. "like ai = eugenics" is one hell of a take
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u/DickWad96024 Jan 05 '26
Negative karma farming lol
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u/SafetyNoodle Jan 06 '26
Honestly I've just left it up because I'm a little satisfied with how hated it is 😂
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Jan 04 '26
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u/SpiritualPackage3797 Jan 05 '26
My question is, is it really necessary to identify him as, "Mark Twain (American writer)"? I mean, isn't he up there with Shakespeare, Picasso, and Mozart where we can just say the name and people will be expected to know?
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u/GekkoClown Jan 05 '26
For what I can remember never heard of him on my school days in Brazil, nor in theater, literature, or art classes I took in elementary and middle school. As for the other three, I heard about them in some way almost every year.
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u/Ender_Burster Jan 05 '26
I dunno, I never heard of him, as opposed to the other three. Maybe it's 'cause I'm not American? I don't know.
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u/mickeyisstupid PLARF Jan 03 '26
very relevant after the literal piracy US has commited recently
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u/GatorTEG Jan 03 '26
Conceptually good, but I'm afraid it would get claimed by conservatives due to how cool it looks.
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u/Bob_Spud Jan 03 '26
Strangely the conservatives haven't. If it has not happened by now, its not going to happen.
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u/MurphMcGurf Jan 04 '26
This is outright fucking stupid to say. of course they could still co-opt it.
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u/SundinShootsPing500 Jan 04 '26
This has always been a nation at war. Whether with other nations or themselves, this nation has no idea of what true peace time prosperity looks like if it slapped them in the face. The sooner the global terrorist administration gets held accountable for their actions, the less damage they will be allowed to incur.
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u/ThatsACatch22 Jan 04 '26
Second Nazi: Have you noticed that our caps actually have little pictures of skulls on them?
Hans: I don't... er-
Second Nazi: Hans... are we the baddies?
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u/Vigmod Jan 04 '26
As much as I like this skit, it should be mentioned that many Allied units (or divisions or brigades or whatever the technically correct term is) had a skull, or skull and crossbones, in their insignia. Usually as a "memento mori" or otherwise "we're ready to die" kind of symbolism. And even the SS skull and crossbones is older than the Nazi party, even older than Germany as a unified country.
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Jan 03 '26 edited Jan 04 '26
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u/Fit-Row-844 Jan 04 '26
"does it have relevance" lol, it's probably more relevant now than in his time.
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u/Valiant_tank Jan 04 '26
I don't know, this was originally created in response to American actions in the Philippines, which ranged from 'horribly brutal' to 'practically genocidal'. Like, the US nowadays is deeply imperialist and all too happy to use force in the name of retaining power and control over its vassals, but that is something which you can really say just as well about the post-Spanish-American War US.
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u/BusyMorning6469 Jan 04 '26
in the wake of recent geopolitical events: the conflict with Venezuela,
this flag is more relevent then ever
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u/caseycane88 Jan 04 '26
Feels relevant
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u/BusyMorning6469 Jan 04 '26
given the current geopolitical climate: yes
given the existence of D. trump on a 2nd term: double yes
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u/e00s Jan 04 '26
Looks like something an angry teenager hangs in their bedroom.
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u/doublavoo Jan 04 '26
Or something a jaded adult casually dismisses as something an angry teenager hangs in their bedroom.
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u/bigbad50 Jan 04 '26
Unfortunately this is cool and ideologically ambiguous so it would inevitably become corrupted into a symbol of the right wing.
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u/Annual-Fold-8948 Jan 04 '26
Ooh I hope the internet is ready to see more of this cos I just saved that pic
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u/Effective_Dot4653 Jan 04 '26
Purely vexicologically speaking, I think the black and red stripes should be swapped, so you don't have this awkward place where one of the black stripes touches the black canton.
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u/pacmanaesthetic Jan 04 '26
Why are there 50 skulls if it's from 1901? What are you counting 50 of?
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u/Fancy-Departure4632 Jan 07 '26
Blood and death. It shows perfectly what Trumpistan stands for. Very fitting.
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u/Sexta_Eu_SouFodown Feb 02 '26
Today, the color red is stronger because blood has flowed much more throughout the world, and within the USA as well.
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u/CosmicEmile Feb 03 '26
Something something Mark Twain more like Woke Twain but in all seriousness this flag works to the USA in every decade it's been around
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u/alter-eagle Jan 04 '26
Did you make this OP? Can you make one with one large skull and crossbones where the stars would be? Or even like the 13 colonies in a circle?
I’d love to get one of these custom made.
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u/ihateredditors430 Jan 04 '26
Goes hard lol but yeah I get the reasoning why that wouldn’t be a good idea for a flag.
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u/Unending-Flexionator Jan 04 '26
I'm gonna print this and put it on my car, and say it stands for law officer oppression... so when the cops pull me over they think I'm with them and let me go.
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u/RevolutionaryFile532 Jan 04 '26
B-but you don't get it, this time is different! The most recent intervention is always different until 20 years pass and I pretend as if I was always against it.
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u/HebrewHamm3r Jan 03 '26
Unfortunately, this goes hard and would not be a good vehicle for criticism