r/talesfromtechsupport • u/ciejer Error id20t • Apr 15 '15

Short Check data first, CC boss second.

var posts = 1

var timelurked = moons(many)

writepost("

Just a short one for you.

I work for a multi-utility, as a systems analyst for the sales teams: development, some training, and tier 2 for anything sales team leaders can't fix it (pretty much everything)

This particular team leader is a notorious escalator - if she hasn't had a reply in fifteen minutes, you can bet a follow-up email will be sent with her boss and mine on it. She's with an external contractor, so we'll call her $ExCon. This email exchange happened today.

$ExCon: There is a problem with $SalesSystem. Please investigate. It is adding other servers to email addresses.

$ciejer: Hi $ExCon, can you please send an example? I'll look into it.

$ExCon: <screenshot attached of generic error screen> Please help, we had to complete the sale on paper.

$ciejer: Thanks $ExCon, can you please confirm the customers' phone number?

$ExCon: (suddenly my boss is in the cc field...) 555-555-5555. I have restarted signup process and still having issues.

Finally I have something useful. I look up the details, and see the problem straight away: customersemail@gmail.com@pcsms.com

@ciejer: (still cc'ed managers) Thanks for clarifying $ExCon, please remove the email address from the phone number field.

I'm still smiling...

")

TL;DR cc:boss subject:my incompetence

530 Upvotes

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220

u/Bytewave ....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-.... Apr 15 '15

Passive-aggressive CCing (where you copy 'important people' who do not need to be involved in an issue to throw weight around) is one of the surest giveaways that someone is not a reliable professional and should not be trusted with anything critical.

Sometimes you may get a little more attention to your issue because of it, but you'll never be respected if you work that way. It's not limited to IT either, it's pretty widespread unprofessional behavior.

Asking for another tech's opinion if you think you got wrong answers is fine, but the moment you're obviously playing the hierarchy - people remember that. Of course it's different if it's obvious that an issue needs to be handled by management, but if you believe that's the case, make it the subject of what you're writing, not a CC.

53

u/DarkSporku IMO packet pusher Apr 15 '15

Which is why 90% of the emails I get have a CC of some sort. Stupid $Govt users and their failure to comprehend technology.

Who puts a budget analyst in charge of the IT group for a DPW?

30

u/ModusPwnins Code monkey Apr 15 '15

A lot of $Govt agencies require people to CC or BCC when communicating with external parties. If that external party is a vendor or contractor, the contract point of contact will also be CCed.

Dumb, I know.

35

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15

Many, many Fedgov employees will not perform any duties that their first-line supervisor is not aware of.

Pass emails detailing what needs to be done, get agreement from Fedgov employee. No one in CC line? Nothing happens until an email follow-up with supervisor in CC line.

Almost as good:

$HZ: New system needs to be connected, with a VLAN allowing a classroom environment to Bldg XYZ.
$FedGov: Sure, no problem, that works!
$HZ: Cool! Can I get that in writing, or an signed email?
$FedGov: Wait, what? No, you can't do that, it would violate regulation.
$HZ: Huh? You just verbally approved it?
$FedGov: I didn't really understand.
$HZ: <facepalm>

This employee would approve anything at all until asked for documentation that could be tracked back to them, whereupon it was firmly denied.

Edit: Line breaks

11

u/Nematrec Apr 15 '15

Hold your phone out and look at it like you're reading off it, have it actually record them giving you permission. Assuming you're not working where such a thing would be considered a security breach.

17

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15

Yeah . . . no. Wouldn't work around here.

13

u/Nematrec Apr 15 '15

Ok, next best thing I can suggest is instead of asking for the email just continue explain how it work, at the end tell him to let you know by e-mail when he wants to get started.

The key isn't to ask for documentation but make it seem to be a part of the process.

Also because he's not listening anyway you can use him like rubber duck.

3

u/Ksevio Apr 15 '15

Or in states where that would be considered illegal.

5

u/Nematrec Apr 15 '15

My understanding is that the "one-party"/"two-party" state thing is just for recording telephone conversations.

2

u/Ksevio Apr 15 '15

In Massachusetts it applies to any type of recording, but the determining factor is if you're secretly recording the conversation. An obvious camera is OK, trying to pretend you're looking at your phone while recording would be not OK.

2

u/Nematrec Apr 15 '15

Ok, well I give a better suggestion anyway further up.

1

u/yassenof Apr 16 '15

Just whip out an audio recorder. No big deal.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15

[deleted]

2

u/Shuko currently has a cache flow problem Apr 15 '15

Why is it that funny business is only really funny if you're a comedian? :( Any other time it's stressful and annoying, at least.

2

u/MagpieChristine Apr 15 '15

Even without cc'ing people, e-mail is still much better than having a policy of only discussing stuff by BBM. I mean, it's not like they're refusing to comply with Freedom of Information requests, they just can't.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15

I'm with a Park District... My boss (Superintendent of IT) reports to the Director of Finance. Should be it's own department IMO but the explanation to me was that IT is pure expense and overhead so to make sure we don't get out of control, the money guy is in charge.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15

This seems to be a common thing, it is where I work. Problem is, the finance Director makes IT descisons, but completely out of context.

Result, underpaid/overworked IT staff, bad management practices, old ass equipment that should be replaced but isn't etc. etc...

3

u/Yadizinha What have I become? Apr 15 '15 edited Apr 15 '15

I am a gov. employee and I have to CC my boss, our section chief, and my back-up on all work-related emails. I feel like it makes me look incompetent, but it's what the boss wants, so I do it. What's worse is when I get a reply but the person didn't reply all, so in my response I have to add the CC. Sad stuff.

**Edit: I recently discovered the "Direct Replies To" feature which cuts down on a lot of the people that refuse to Reply All. That's fine, I'll do it for you. :)

5

u/David_W_ User 'David_W_' is in the sudoers file. Try not to make a mess. Apr 15 '15

One thing that might also help is if you include a statement in your sig to the effect of "Per departmental policy, my alternate, manager, and section chief have been CC'ed". That way whoever you are sending it to knows who these other people are and why they are there, so they may feel less inclined to strip them from the conversation.

4

u/Yadizinha What have I become? Apr 16 '15

I have a statement in my signature but honestly it is so long that I don't think anyone reads past my name. And I can't add it to the front of the signature because the chief wants all of our signatures uniform and in the same exact format. They micromanaged our signatures. So the statement is near the end of the signature in a greyed out font, right before the little "this email is confidential blahblahblah" statement.

3

u/David_W_ User 'David_W_' is in the sudoers file. Try not to make a mess. Apr 16 '15

Ugh... I can't stand someone wanting to micromanage my signature. We aren't drones people. Worrying about my signature tells me management doesn't have enough real work to do.

0

u/thekyshu Apr 20 '15

Well, it's better than everyone having their own version of a signature pieced together, anything from 2 lines of text to a whole paragraph about the meaning of life.

13

u/Shurikane "A-a-a-a-allô les gars! C-c-coucou Chantal!" Apr 15 '15

You should check out my workplace: if there's an E-Mail being sent, the president is CC'd. No ifs or buts. Prez is CC'd on literally everything.

I'm not sure I wish to understand what sort of environment led to this practice.

15

u/Bytewave ....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-.... Apr 15 '15

In tiny businesses, I guess I can sort of understand - but usually when this kind of thing is SOP, it means the president/CEO is a micromanaging freak. And that isn't usually good news. :/

7

u/Shurikane "A-a-a-a-allô les gars! C-c-coucou Chantal!" Apr 15 '15

Which pretty much confirms what I've heard a lot of people say around here: "I'm a robot and upper management has a remote pointed at me."

18

u/under_psychoanalyzer Apr 15 '15

Jesus using CC gives me anxiety. Why would anyone want to call more attention to themselves while having a problem.

31

u/Bytewave ....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-....-:¯¯:-.... Apr 15 '15

Typically because they are certain that the problem is demonstrably someone else's fault and they want them to suffer for the inconvenience of having to call tech support or escalate an issue.

They're also almost always wrong, and it's often very funny once that backfires.

14

u/under_psychoanalyzer Apr 15 '15

It feels like of a failing of a basic survival instinct. These must be the same people who look down the barrel of guns because they "know" it's not loaded.

16

u/400HPMustang Must Resist the Urge to Kill Apr 15 '15

I feel like the first rule of gun handling is really the first rule of life just slightly different.

  • Treat all guns as if they are loaded
  • Treat everyone in life as if they're dumb and trying to screw you over

You can see the similarities, right?

10

u/Mewshimyo Apr 15 '15

Treat everyone you meet as if they are loaded.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 15 '15

No wonder there are so many muggers out there.

-1

u/mrfatso111 Oh God How Did This Get Here? Apr 17 '15

And the scary thing is you will know of people who walks around with their gun loaded, safely off . I would often walk far far far away from those guys , after all , I can't exactly fire on them just because I am worried that these clowns will shoot me.

6

u/dragonheat I hate ball mice Apr 15 '15

Some lusers should look down a barrel of a loaded gun and pull the trigger, I'm not jaded honest

5

u/purpleshadez Apr 16 '15

This is so true! I once had a user who refused to allow me and my team to carry out any diagnostics to resolve his issue. Since the user was on a "VIP" list, we couldn't just close the ticket, he had to agree. We'd email asking him to provide a time to allow us to try and help. He'd reply to state he was too busy. This went on for a few months.

Then, one morning I came in and checked the team mailbox and find an email from this user. CC'd were all his department heads, and their boss. The opening text of the email stated "Dear <IT Company> I AM BEING IGNORED!" in a rather large font. He'd deleted all the correspondence between him and my team so it read as if he'd emailed us a few times and got no response.

I replied, having had to take time out and calm down, by attaching the actual email chain and as politely as possible explained that we'd tried to resolve but we had been repeatedly told he didn't have the time. Needless to say, we had a reply from user's boss stating the matter was being looked into. We've not heard from the guy since.

10

u/tonylearns Apr 15 '15

Having included my manager in emails where I'm having a problem is generally a for of CYA. "Here is a problem I'm having, but I'm taking these actions to fix it." But my company does have a bit of a "Reply All" culture to it.

8

u/SDGrave Damn you, printers. Damn you all to hell! Apr 15 '15

Every single issue from sales agents comes with their boss, my boss, and sometimes even the general manager of the office, CC'd.
Don't they realise it just makes them look like they're unable to comprehend how to write an email and wait for an answer?

3

u/Rusah Apr 15 '15

I'm getting a ton of this on a project I'm on right now and the biggest cause is that the PM on the project doesn't trust or respect anyone on the development team.

Ask for a status update? Higher ups are CC'd. Request he tone down the frequency of meetings? Higher ups are CC'd on why he can't do that. I get assigned 70-80 hours of work every sprint but get included in 20-25 hours worth of meetings. Push back on a timeline because of bad planning? Higher ups CC'd on delays.

Even CC's clients when he shouldn't. Complete lack of respect of us and just as you say, the respect doesn't flow back in turn.

2

u/he_must_workout Apr 16 '15

Bad PM is bad PM.

5

u/BrevityBrony Apr 15 '15

At the same time it would only be fair to CC the resolution of this ticket to the same people she name-drops for attention

3

u/FoxheadRaven Proficient in computering Apr 16 '15

Good advice. People aren't always tech savvy but they're pretty good at smelling a rat.

2

u/notwithit2 No I meant disk not... Apr 15 '15

One worry I have and why I end up cc'ing bosses sometimes is because I don't trust the individual I'm talking to. It is better, IMO, to have the email chain include my boss so he can see just how much of a twit so and so is.

2

u/EvilStig Apr 16 '15

I basiucally cc my fellow team member whenever I'm emailing someone about an issue that may ev entually come back to him. I don't think I've ever CC'd somone's boss when asking that someone for something, unless that someone was out of the office or something and I wanted the boss to step in and push it over to someone else who is available to help with the issue.

I will however CC the client's boss, as a sort of pre-emptive passive aggressive boss cc counterstrike if they start making unreasonable demands and I need to shut them down. Beats them to the punch, so I don't get an angry email from their boss later asking why I haven't done something.

Our management hierarchy is kinda fucked up, yo.

2

u/Kell_Naranek Making developers cry, one exploit at a time. Apr 16 '15

I have a coworker that has a LONG history of removing and readding people in CC email threads, and will often delete messages in the middle of the CC thread. At least once, when the person went out of their way to disobey my instructions and made a mess of things, I've readded CCs myself, and they've complained.

As a general rule of thumb, if I'm doing some tech support work, I will CC the other guy who does IT stuff, and include my direct superior or the head of the impacted team only if downtime is going to be caused. That being said, I send more company-wide mass mails than anyone else outside of marketing, because almost always when a system that is used by a lot of people needs to be overhauled and service disruptions will occur, I'm the one doing the work.

1

u/wonderb0lt Apr 15 '15

Or the recipient is a lazy bum who doesn't care about your issue until his boss makes him. Not like that's any less unprofessional.

1

u/Rand0mUsers previously an unofficial classroom tech support Apr 16 '15

Passive-aggressive CCing

Should be a weapon in all tech support's arsenals. I wish I could use it... the only way I can get leverage is calling people scrubs as I point to their syntax errors. Though that is still about 90% successful... but I am still bothered about the 10% :)