r/southafrica • u/Boondog_saint no war but class war • Apr 25 '26
News Zille fights back: "My focus is on fixing Johannesburg, not Gaza or Tel Aviv"
https://briefly.co.za/politics/240396-im-fighting-mayor-joburg-ramallah-helen-zille-dismisses-criticism-gaza-stance/97
u/blahblahbropanda KwaZulu-Natal Apr 25 '26
There's a lot to unpack here. Is it true that opposition parties to the DA will use her stance on the Gaza conflict against her? Yes. Does that mean she shouldn't take a stance against a genocide? No.
It is a bit ironic that she mentioned municipal entities should be run by skilled professionals when until recently the federal leader of the DA was unqualified.
Lastly, Helen Zille is trying to play this role of someone who is only thinking about local affairs and politics but the DA constantly calls out the ANC for their foreign affairs positions. At least be consistent then, Helen.
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u/Opheleone Apr 25 '26
There's a lot of DA supporters that have these gripes with them as well. No spine due to political connections to the US likely, or at least donations from them.
Also, John being the leader was honestly one of the dumbest things they have done.
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u/lelanthran Apr 27 '26
No spine due to political connections to the US likely
No political connections necessary - we depend on them.
We need them, they don't need us. If the clown over there suddenly decides to put SA under sanctions we are completely screwed, and literally everything in SA will come to a standstill overnight.
The sad reality is that if you want to stand by your principles you have to self-sufficient at least enough to continue business as usual.
You don't get to oppose someone on your principles when you depend on them to remain operating.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 25 '26
Didn't she publicly oppose the ICJ case?
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Apr 25 '26
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u/blahblahbropanda KwaZulu-Natal Apr 25 '26
I guess the UN is funded by Iranian terrorists as well. /s
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 25 '26
Where did you pull that idea from?
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
Why would we file the ICJ case? Think about it. You dealing with corrupt, money hungry politicians - nothing happens for goodwill. Everyone knows how corrupt SA is with govt tenders etc. just follow the money and you’ll see the answer. The point is Let’s focus on our country. I personally couldn’t care about an SA politicians opinion on any other country until our own is fixed
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 25 '26
Are you seriously wondering why the party that defined itself as a fighter against apartheid, would stand up against apartheid?
ANC, and most of South Africa, have been supporters of a free Palestine for decades.
Sure we have problems within SA, but that doesn't mean we should not stand up and do the right thing, which is what the ICJ case is.
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u/TheUnicornRevolution Apr 25 '26
It's also clearly an excuse when local constituents care about it, and it costs no time or money (not counting losing funding) to say "I'm against the genocide"
HZ: "I'm only interested in local affairs that affect local people."
Locals: "We care about this and it DOES affect us."
HZ: "..."
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
What do you mean unqualified? He had a Matric :P
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u/Sorry-Grocery-8999 Tokoloshe Apr 25 '26
Took her a week to memorise an answer.
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u/Boondog_saint no war but class war Apr 25 '26
She had to get her PR team to come up with it.
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 25 '26
And then get permission from her sponsor to actually say it.
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u/bushknifebob Apr 25 '26
She is trying to copy Mayor Mamdani.
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u/Boondog_saint no war but class war Apr 25 '26
Mamdani is a democratic socialist, who wrote this https://www.bangordailynews.com/2014/01/08/opinion/bowdoin-should-join-academic-boycott-of-israeli-institutions/ and has called out Israel a number of times.
Zille is a right-winger, who has defended colonisation and refuses to talk out on Israel.
They are not the same. Moreover, Israel and the US actions are why we have sky rocketing fuel prices and an increased potential for food costs to go through the roof.
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u/SoutieNaaier Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
The DA can't really go too hard on Israel without pissing off valuable Jewish patrons in the Western Cape. It's a lose-lose proposition for them to take a hard stance. That's just how politics work, most people don't understand this
(Obligatory "not all Jews are Zionists" , but these rich donors are)
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 25 '26
A lot of the DA messaging of late makes me think that they are getting financial support from Israel
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u/SoutieNaaier Apr 25 '26
I mean, maybe.
The SAJBD and SAZF both have Israeli ties and they both are DA backers.
The DA also has Muslim donors from the Coloured community, being a big tent party means decisions have to be made to appease various constituents in a way that pisses them off the least rather than exciting prospective voters.
It's been a DA problem since they've been a thing. Mmusi causing a hemmorage to VF+ and Steenhuisen bleeding to the PA is a good example.
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u/SoupRSonic Apr 25 '26
Good answer nonetheless. We have to fix our own house before criticizing others’
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u/KingHintsa Apr 25 '26
The funny thing I've noticed about the DA is that it's a political party that is bever scrutinized on its policies or it's politics and when it is, we must always look at something else.
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u/NEVERxxEVER Apr 25 '26
Bro what do you mean? The DA is almost exclusively criticized about their position on things outside of the country and identity politics, and almost never evaluated on their ability to govern or deliver services to South Africans. It’s insane that people would rather have incompetent kleptocrats in power because being a bit Zionist or MAGA-friendly is somehow worse.
I say this as someone who is extremely anti-Zionist and anti-MAGA. But if you are suffocating, your first priority should be AIR. Not identity politics and foreign affairs.
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u/ThatGuy_ASDF Cloud 9 Cancelled Due to Weather Apr 26 '26
Well, I’ve found that your thoughts and actions in one area is a clear indicator of your thoughts on other things. I get your "air" analogy, but it treats governance like a purely administrative task, like fixing a pipe.
My view is that neutrality in the face of a well-documented genocide is complicity. Even archbishop Desmond Tutu agreed when he said that choosing neutrality is choosing the side of the oppressor. Choosing to be "neutral" on this isn't just some abstract foreign policy stance. It tells you exactly how a party values human life and dignity when it’s politically or economically inconvenient to do the right thing.
Let's consider this in the grander scheme of things. During Apartheid, many Western governments used your exact logic. They claimed they just wanted to focus on trade, the economy, and domestic issues (the air you’re referring to) while remaining "neutral” on the oppression happening to South Africans. If the world had adopted that logic, Apartheid would have lasted a lot longer.
If a party can look at massive civilian casualties and ICJ rulings and decide that "neutrality" is the safest path, why should vulnerable South Africans trust that this same party will aggressively protect their socio-economic rights here at home?
If we consider that the DA is more of a right leaning or right wing group their actions make a lot of sense. And let me make a clear distinction, right does not necessarily mean conservative, their actions as a right party mean they favour the private sector and foreign trade interests and elected capital. Now let’s consider the fact that whilst yes the western Cape is well run (I don’t think anyone really complains that it isn’t), we have to ask who gets the air? The areas that receive the most support, attention, and funding are the economic hubs, tourist attractions, and affluent rate-paying suburbs. If you’ve ever been in a historically coloured or black area, you’d notice very quickly the stark difference in service delivery compared to the more serviced areas.
If the person offering you an oxygen tank is completely indifferent to the fact that someone right next to you is being suffocated to death, you have to question their fundamental ethics. We don't just need a party that can balance a spreadsheet and polish the financial hubs; we need a party whose core ideology actually values human dignity.
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u/Necessary_Ad_7601 Apr 28 '26
Actually, good points. But we as South Africans will gain a lot more if the whole country was being run like Cape town, than from the DA denying or admitting that there's a genocide on the other side of the planet. Let's just be real.
Us as South africans already have our values, a political party won't just change that. We generally actually get along quite well.
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u/Semjaja Apr 25 '26
Complete cop-out answer. No one expects you to fix those places, we're asking what your opinion is on events taking place there and your failure to answer tells me you know people won't like the answer
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u/Opheleone Apr 25 '26
Absolutely, I think if Geordin Hill Lewis wants to actually make a big change in optics, it should be coming down on this, and actually taking a side on this, there's more than enough evidence at this point to show there is a genocide going on.
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
Her point is that her answer is irrelevant when you consider how many more issues we have in SA. She’s making a good point by not answering because honestly who cares about what’s happening there when our youth can’t find work here. Political failure here will result in an economic genocide
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u/ShrekProphet69 Apr 25 '26
The thing is, what happens in the middle east still affects us whether you like it or not. I would rather have oil distribution distributed between gulf countries instead of totally controlled by Israel and the US
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u/BullishOnEverything Apr 25 '26
Well let’s be honest, the Pali zombie lobby isn’t interested in honest discussion or debate. You’re 100% sure of yourself and you think in moral binary. You bully and cancel anyone who isn’t 100% aligned. So obviously people aren’t going to bother expressing different opinions. You kill free speech and then complain when people keep their opinion to themselves
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
Please stop with this bullshit rhetoric that cancelling happens. If it did then Kayne West wouldn't have had a career left. You want to talk about Antisemitic behaviour the arse is an outright Nazi shit and he still makes money. There is no way in fuck that I believe he won't turn around and do it again. You have been played in believing that cancelling happens.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/1ss5lgc/cancel_culture_doesnt_exist/
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u/Jan_du_Preez Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
I don't fully agree with OP here, but he is absolutely correct about the left censoring, There are two whole other thriving subreddits for South Africa because the mods have banned so many users that many feel they cannot talk openly here for fear of a ban. I had a discussion with a user recently that claimed he and others were banned for only mentioning the DA, I told him I have had regular arguments with the literal mods and I am still not banned (Yet ;) so I doubt that, but it is indicative of the Authoritarian vibe many user get from leadership in this sub.
"You kill free speech and then complain when people keep their opinion to themselves" this is 100% accurate, I have told you guys this is a dumb idea, we should let this subreddit reflect the opinions of the country broadly, I want to understand what everybody in the country thinks, if most of us disagree let the downvotes show that, and let us make good substantiated counter arguments. Don't just ban people as if we are weak people that can't even bear to hear opposing opinions...
I mean the irony of you telling him it doesn't exist but yet you lock his comment, u/BullishOnEverything are you banned already or is it just your comment that is locked?
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u/Necessary_Ad_7601 Apr 28 '26
Refreshing comment!! 1000% agree, thank you!
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u/Jan_du_Preez Apr 28 '26
Hey if you agree with this there is a mod post at the top of the subreddit asking for feedback on the new rules. Please make your opinion heard there. I actually don't know if you will see this comment because I got muted by the mods and I don't believe their explanation ;)
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u/BullishOnEverything Apr 25 '26
Huh, I’m talking about leftists cancelling (or basically shaming and trying to cancel) anyone who isn’t pro-Palestinians, in South Africa. Not anti-semites in the US which is a totally different thing, basically the opposite thing actually.
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
There a couple things to unpack here. One, define leftist? Are Democrats left? I don't personally think they are. What about Labour in the UK? I don't think they are either. The ANC? Ooh, okay that is a smidge more difficult they are technically left but their moral compass is fucked. MK are just ideological batshit.
No one is opposed to you not supporting Palestine. I do on the other hand think it is deplorable to support Israel, at any level. as they are genocidal state who are committing war crimes and trying to kill all the Palestinians. Those are not the same thing.
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u/BullishOnEverything Apr 25 '26
Proving my point. Talking in moral binary, denying the possibility of nuance and complexity, and discounting the possibility of any other view.
To be fair most people do this across the political spectrum, it’s just that when it comes to Palestine, this form of simpleton thinking happens at scale and in a more forceful, autocratic way.
You leave no room for anyone to express anything outside of the extreme, binary view, and then you wonder why people don’t bother engaging. Because there is no actual engagement, just zombie-minded repetition of the same simplistic positions
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
You didn't answer my question, what is left? I think you inability to answer says more about me than you. That makes you a simpleton.
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u/BullishOnEverything Apr 25 '26
I’m sticking to my primary point. The definition of left is neither here nor there
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
Seem like an awfully moral binary position you are holding for a complex idea.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 25 '26
Seems you two are stuck in a classic Intolerence Paradox.
Is it bad for one side to be intolerent of another side because of their intolerence? And what of the ones who have no opinion?
May I propose: We are all part of a social contract. We collectively agree that, you don't harm me, I don't harm you. If one party harms another party, they are in breach of said contract, thus no longer covered by the contract. So are then fair game for intolerence.
Long - short: It's morally okay to say death to all nazis, and anyone who dissagrees is a nazi.
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u/apenature Apr 25 '26
He did get barred from the UK. And dropped by all his sponsors. His career repair is basically, "I was off my meds. Sorry for the Nazi stuff." It's going middling. He won't ever know the success he once did.
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 25 '26
He is still worth 400 Million USD. I want some of that cancel culture, please. So I can live off the interest in a nice place and fade off into nothingness,
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u/CrocByBlood_NoTears Apr 25 '26
Helen Zille trying to pull a Zohran Mamdani haha. What she doesn't realize is that Mamdani actually stood firm on his position on genocide while putting the focus mainly on new Yorkers.
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u/Equivalent-Zone-4115 Apr 25 '26
It’s really not that hard to state your values and practice them consistently throughout your career. Politics is only hard if you’re lending your ear to many external forces all wanting their finger in the pie while trying to portray a semblance of morality to the public at the same time. We forget that politicians are supposed to work for the people.
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u/CrocByBlood_NoTears Apr 25 '26
Not sure if most of your statement is in agreement or disagreement with what I said but sure politicians are supposed to work for the people.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 25 '26
She could have just said, "The Genocide in Gaza is bad." That's it. She could even have her fingers crossed behind her back. That's all the had to do, then she could carry on with her MSAGA shit. But she would rather upset more and more voters than upset who ever she's trying to not upset.
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u/Fluffy-Season-8798 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
For those who say what does gaza got to do with her running jhb. Her opinion on matter shows us what type of people we are putting in leadership roles. If she can sell her soul for zio lobby and deny a genocide...she won't hesitate to turn a blind eye when it comes to south Africans.. she's only concerned with certain elites that fund her. There are many like her who claim to be against apartheid and she will use her journalism back in the day to pretend like she was always against it but in reality she's part of the group that spotted the tides turning and so went with it rather than believe intrinsically that apartheid was wrong. How does one be against something here but then supports something similer or even worse elsewhere. That shows their not genuine when it comes to these matters. Make no mistake..she will open the gates even further to zio envasions in multiple institutions of South africa if she were to get into power and as the years go by we will be captured like usa.
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u/Spiritual_Pomelo_154 Apr 25 '26
She's not "selling her soul to the Zionist lobby", she is a Zionist.
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u/Jearend06 Apr 26 '26
Imagine taking a week ,consulting everybody you know and your final answer us a non-answer. Sure make this the person in charge
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u/666KorlatWitch999 Apr 25 '26
This out the mouth of any South African politician, considering our history of the liberation struggle being really an international effort, is damning
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u/Spiritual_Pomelo_154 Apr 25 '26
Have you heard what this woman thinks about the liberation movement? I paraphrase but she's more or less said we should be grateful to De Klerk for ending Apartheid because the liberation movement was useless.
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u/jungle_fiya Apr 25 '26
Terrible response. And she’s sticking to it. It wouldn’t hurt to acknowledge the devastation in Gaza, but she can’t risk that Zionist Cpt money.
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u/Huge_Celebration5804 Apr 25 '26
That's about on track for the DA, that's why my black ass is not voting for this party and no GHL can also fuck off
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
She’s right! We must selfishly fix SA. Opinions means nothing. Do actual work. Build something. Fix SAs unemployment problem before giving opinions on other countries.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 25 '26
If opinions do not matter, then why can't she just say it? Take 5 minutes out of her busy 'South Africa First' schedule to release a press statement saying genocide bad. That's literally all she has to do for all of this to go away. But no, she would rather continue to antagonise increasingly larger number of voters, to not upset who?
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u/Seamonkeypo Apr 25 '26
She is partially Jewish. I know that doesn't mean she is Zionist, but I don't think she is going to speak out.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 25 '26
Being Jewish or even having Jewish ancestry has nothing to do with it. There are plenty Jewish communities across the world who are protesting the genocide, and it doesn't make them any less Jewish.
It's money, that's it. No other excuse
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u/Seamonkeypo Apr 25 '26
I know, but she is afraid of upsetting some of her Jewish supporters or benefactors who lean Zionist, I assume.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 25 '26
if she gave a toss about what voters wanted, she would campaign on matters that are actually important to the vast majority of South African voters. But she doesn't. Instead she is going for headlines that make the anc look bad, pleasing lobyists and turning South Africa into Temu qatar. That's it.
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
Finally someone focussing on South Africa 1st!!!
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u/KingHintsa Apr 25 '26
There's a department called dirco that focuses on foreign affairs, and then there is another department called the department of education that focuses on education in our country. In other words, this idea thatvqe must only do one thing at a time is weird and disingenuous. It's just a way to stop a conversation.
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u/Public-Drink-1983 Apr 25 '26
This hypocrite should focus on the Cape Flats and Khayelitsha and Gugulethu etc.
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
She’s working on JHB. Not Cape Town. The point is that other SA parties are too focussed on what’s happening outside our country, even though they have literally zero affect on any global decisions.
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u/Public-Drink-1983 Apr 25 '26
DA runs Cape Town. She was all in the media pointing out this and that about Joburg and forgot all about the messs back in Cape Town. Also, Joburg regressed alot under DA rule too if I remember correctly
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u/Plan_Electronic Apr 25 '26
SA has so much corruption, govt fraud and the highest unemployment rate in the world. Yet people want to talk about other countries. Prioritise SA 1st before getting involved overseas
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u/KingHintsa Apr 25 '26
You have missed my whole point. Which is you can have an opinion on something that affects the world and still be the mayor of a city. I guess in world War 2, people should have ignored what's happening in Europe and focused on their own countries right? If a mayor then said, they support the Germans. Would you have said it doesnt matter as it's outside of the country? I highly doubt that. Also the ICJ case is pretty significant, and we have more and more counties joining our case. It's also helped push the plight of the Palestinians into the main stream, so wrong again.
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u/Zangoma Durban Apr 25 '26
Same party that decided to send a fact finding mission to Israel and came back ,with Glenys Breytenbach, and said no Genocide