r/southafrica • u/MalemasMucusPlug • Apr 11 '26
News ‘We saved DA from woke, left, ethno-populism’ - Helen Zille
https://www.news24.com/politics/interview-we-saved-da-from-woke-left-ethno-populism-helen-zille-20260411-0938290
u/Riparian72 Apr 11 '26
We want a good alternative to the ANC , not Republicans SA edition.
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u/chemicalclarity Highway to the jol zone Apr 11 '26
We've been there and done that. V2 needs a better name than apartheid.
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u/meonreddityo Apr 12 '26
True, but any alternative to ANC is a good alternative.
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
Not if it promoting hate, injustice and going back 35 years.
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u/peterler0ux Apr 11 '26
This is MAGA bingo word salad. I would love someone to explain, phrase by phrase, what these things mean
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 11 '26
Guarantee she has no idea, but also her sponsor with the white and blue flag likely gave her a script
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u/kieppie Aristocracy Apr 11 '26
Simple: what's the opposite of "woke"? Bigotry!
Anti-woke is pro-bigotry.
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 11 '26
The da is anti equal rights, anti-"government providing services to citizens", and anti pretending to be a party open to people of colour.
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u/KinkyStonerVibes Gauteng Apr 11 '26
Yup, anti-minimum wage, against NHI, cut funding for teachers, want "the market" the decide should profiteer from housing, instead of actually, I don't know, housing people - they are a rich white party for rich white people...
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
I think the market should decide... their salaries. Members of parliament and councillors should be paid the median wages from their relevant provinces or councils. There salary can only go up if they provide evidence they have increased the median salary in their relevant province or council. Till that they can shut the fuck up.
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u/ExpressionOk532 Apr 12 '26
I hate the freaking DA. Every election they beg for votes and when they do get a seat and you want someone to help get water in Houses or fix potholes or get someone to fix the electricity it is always "we don't have any power to affect change".
They want to power and the money but don't want to do the work.
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u/peterler0ux Apr 12 '26
They literally have ministers in the cabinet and are still using the language of opposition and talkimg about the failings of the ANC like they aren't sitting around the table when decisions are taken
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
You just need to follow the litigation in Cape Town against the rates increases. The City of Cape Town lawyers basically argued that they can do what they want - so when municipal/provincial DA flunkies try to come with the "it's all the ANC's fault, we can't actually do anything" just understand that it's bullshit.
Otherwise how do they want to claim Cape Town as their success?
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u/unremarkableDragon Apr 12 '26
Oh no, no, no, no! They can definitely fix potholes and water issues.... in constantia, claremont, kennilworth and wyneberg upper. You just stay on the wrong side of the railway line see. Totally not their fault.
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u/NEVERxxEVER Apr 13 '26
What? I am baffled by Zille’s quote and I think it’s bad, but the ANC are the guys who are anti equal rights. And the DA consistently provides services to citizens at a rate FAR higher and with much less waste/corruption than the ANC does. Those claims you made are not based in reality. Joburg and National Govt are a joke
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 13 '26
It's not my claims, it's her own words. That's what they mean. I am not at all defending the anc. Or any other party, they are all shit. The da is meant to be different than the anc. Not just another party serving the elite.
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u/The-Nice-Writer Apr 11 '26
“Woke” - basic human decency described in the pejorative by bigoted lunatics.
“Left” - much like the notion of a single, unified political right, the idea that there is such a thing as one unified left is ridiculous. In this case, Schmelen is referring to anyone who thinks she’s a racist poes (so, me).
“Ethno-populism” is the broad term to describe a form of rhetoric where you create an in-group based on ethnicity (so, White/Afrikaner South Africans who are really weird about it, like Zille, would actually fall into this as well). You effectively say… “we (the people who look this way and lived in this place for x-number of years) need to defend ourselves and our values from (the racial bad guys)”.
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u/Ok_Nothing639 Apr 11 '26
Not to mention woke means awaken. In African American culture it means to be aware of injustice and fight it but the MAGA stole it and changed it
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u/twristbach Apr 13 '26
Except they didn't change it, really. It's just a dog whistle for people who either don't care about injustice, or actively benefit from it.
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u/chxckbxss Redditor for a month Apr 11 '26
Why, at this crucial time, would she spew far right US propaganda?
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u/MancyMancy Apr 11 '26
She used to say it on twitter every day then LGBT+ orgs took her to the HRC.
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u/Darq_At Apr 11 '26
She's been saying this stuff for a while honestly. It seems oddly important to her.
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u/jkflying Apr 11 '26
Most people go right as they get old, Bernie is an exception. DA needs fresh blood.
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 11 '26
Because she is sponsored by the same country as the US politicians
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Apr 11 '26
Tf does all this mean?
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u/SirWernich Aristocracy Apr 11 '26
looks like she saw some posts here about DA overtaking ANC in the next few years and she thought, “not on my watch!”
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u/SlightAbies9860 Limpopo Apr 11 '26
I do not even know what woke means, who forced her to say it?😭
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u/Cosmolina111 Apr 11 '26
No-one forced her. She's been spewing right-wing bullshit for quite a while now.
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u/burnaboy_233 Redditor for a month Apr 11 '26
Is she getting funding from anyone affiliated with Elon Musk?
It’s likely she is spending to much time on twitter
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u/NotFixer1138 Apr 12 '26
When these people use woke they mean "I'm a bigot but I'm too scared to say it out loud."
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u/zodwa_wa_bantu Apr 11 '26
Aaaaaaaand just like that DA fucks up their chances at the polls yet again.
Why the hell would they think this would work in South Africa?? Africa is in the damn name Helen!!
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u/JosefGremlin Left Behind, Still Braaing Apr 11 '26
Ah yes, South Africans are relieved to not have to worry about our greatest crisis of woke, left, ethno-populism!
Also, the party which sells itself on governance has a leader who can't control his own credit card.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
It's getting easier and easier by the day to not vote DA
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u/PersonaGuy5 God’s Draft: SA Players Benched Apr 11 '26
Just wish I could read the bloody article without paying for it so that I could feel justified in my hatred for the DA
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u/Kallaco Apr 11 '26
Capetown housing crisis is good enough
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u/jkflying Apr 11 '26
It's a bit of a catch22 situation though, isn't it? Make a place nice and then everyone wants to move there, housing crisis. Approve lots of new houses to be built, traffic and water crisis. Build more dams, add bus lines and fix trains. Now it is nicer again, more people move there, and you have a housing crisis again, plus there isn't anywhere else to add more roads or build more train lines.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
That's not a Catch-22, that's fucking governance and it's something the DA felate themselves over how good they're supposed to be.
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u/jkflying Apr 11 '26
It's a hard problem. What would your suggestion be that doesn't involve bulldozing peoples houses or restricting freedom for people to choose where they live?
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
We already restrict where people can choose to live, so that's not a particularly intelligent counterargument. I'm also not sure why your first go-to is "bulldoze peoples' homes" and not "do better city planning and infrastructure upgrades that anticipate future demand instead of just reacting to present circumstances".
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u/jkflying Apr 12 '26
These are very worthy goals. Where exactly are you planning to put said infrastructure exactly?
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u/KarelKat Emigrant Apr 11 '26
Cape Town has been popular for decades so this isn't new. So little of the infrastructure that has been built over the past 20 years has been set up to alleviate these constraints that everyone know about. Most things are built in a way that makes everything else worse and nobody seemingly plans for the future:
* MyCiti was built but now that the busses and stations have reached the end of their lives, no provision has been made for replacing them
* Low density suburbs sprawl out into the middle of nowhere with no transit connectivity, further increasing traffic pressure.
* Low density suburbs cost more than they bring in in property revenue. Failures to upzone along transit corridors. Failure to design and develop in a way that doesn't require cars and driving.
I think there is a massive failure of imagination among the residents and the DA-run government about how the city can look and can deal with its problems.
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u/jkflying Apr 11 '26
Agreed on MyCiti, and I think it should be extended throughout all the city and surrounding suburbs.
In terms of low density, if people had another reasonable option to get around they would take it. Right now cars is the only way practical. But people aren't going to switch if there's just a bus once an hour, and the bus maybe isn't safe, or doesn't connect to somewhere they need on the other side, or waits even longer in traffic than the cars. It's a network, and needs network effects to work.
The low density suburbs are what saved the city back in 2005. Optimizing too far in one direction can make the city vulnerable to things like urban decay or gentrification. Yes it isn't optimal for tax revenue, but that's the price you pay for robustness.
Could it be better? Of course. But failure is a strong word. I'd challenge you to find better examples of governance in the minefield of South African economic and political realities.
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u/Sic_Semper_Tyrannis8 Apr 11 '26
Honest question, what's the realistic alternative?
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u/benevolent-badger !ke e: /xarra //ke Apr 11 '26
This would have been the prefect time for a competent smaller party to make a huge noise in time for the municipal elections. And then get a chance to prove them selves. Imagine the upset of some unknown party completely turning Johannesburg around. Instead most of them seem to be competing for the xenophobe vote, or just completely quiet, until it's time to put up posters.
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u/xsv_compulsive Landed Gentry Apr 11 '26
No particular order
BOSA, ANC, ActionSA
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u/Sic_Semper_Tyrannis8 Apr 11 '26
The ANC? The most consistently corrupt and incompetent political party imaginable. Not a single ANC run municipality has been functional in this country for 3 decades, and you want people to keep them in power so they can steal more tax money while providing the bare minimum in service delivery? You've got to be joking.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
You have a poor imagination if your concept of corruption begins and ends with the ANC.
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u/xsv_compulsive Landed Gentry Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
That's not what I want at all
You asked for alternatives to the DA, I gave 3
If you have others, do let me know, or keep screaming about how the ANC ruined South Africa. Whichever seems more productive to you
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u/almostrainman Landed Gentry Apr 11 '26
Is the woke, left, ethno populism in the room with us ?
Where did it touch you ?
Can you tell me what the colour muave tastes like ?
Fokof
All wat ons soek is
Dienste wat werk Opstaan vir wat reg is Gelykheid En n terugkeer na goeie old skool politici wat affairs het , nie die FOKING WERELD AF BRAND NIE
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u/ValeriusAntias Apr 11 '26
The DA sounds more and more like the GOP. Pretty lame for an opposition.
Wish we had a new, social democrat party that targeted younger people. All the current parties are kak.
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u/Darq_At Apr 11 '26
I was pretty surprised that Rise got so little traction, it seemed like they were trying to grab that demographic.
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u/SpinachnPotatoes Didn’t Make the Cut, Still Making Pap Apr 11 '26
If Im going to choose someone to vote for - its a party that has made a continued effort in my area to fix and support the people in it. I am not voting for a party that does not even have a clue my area exists never mind has never even set foot in it.
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u/Competitive-Idea-750 Apr 11 '26
I've been thinking the same. We need to pay urgent attention to the youth and the problems surrounding them. These fucks running now will be gone in 5 or 10 years time and then we sit with the problems.
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u/BatDan21 Gauteng Apr 11 '26
You should look into Rise Mzanzi as a party
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
"Rise Mzansi promises social democracy but delivers neoliberalism" https://mg.co.za/thought-leader/opinion/2024-04-28-part-two-rise-mzansi-promises-social-democracy-but-delivers-neoliberalism/
Fuck that
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u/Only_One_Kenobi https://georgedrakestories.wordpress.com/ Apr 11 '26
This dinosaur is so far out of touch it's a joke at this point. As long as she and her cadre are involved, I will not waste a vote on the DA.
I'm almost at the point where I actively don't want them in power, even more so than the ANC
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u/KinkyStonerVibes Gauteng Apr 11 '26
Entirely agreed. I'm so DISGUSTED they still give her a platform.
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u/Luke92612_ Apr 11 '26
This dinosaur
Don't say that, it's rude to dinosaurs to compare them to her.
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u/Redsap Landed Gentry Apr 11 '26
This party will never be more than just local government. Well done Helen and all those supporting comments like this, slow fucken clap. Turn off Fox News and go out and touch some locals ffs.
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u/unremarkableDragon Apr 12 '26
As a local, I don't want her touching me with a ten foot pole. Thanks.
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u/ThomasDankara Apr 11 '26
Someone tell he that she can't be doing the anti-woke gimmick when its biggest proponent is the least popular politician in the world rn
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u/Head-Philosophy-3141 Apr 11 '26
Saved the DA from ever receiving my vote at the same time congrats Helen
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u/Buzz_81 Generator go brrrrrrrrrr Apr 11 '26
Woke... You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.
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u/QueenViolets_Revenge Apr 11 '26
i live in Cape Town and i'm honestly ashamed. i've been saying for years that the DA is not a progressive party, they don't want to get rid of the corruption, they want to get rid of the corruption that isn't them. and yet, who do we vote for? all the current parties are vol strooi. also, she's very anti LGBT, and yet this is the gay capital of the country, several LGBT shelters, they're all bark, no bite
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u/TheW1tchK1ng Apr 11 '26
Not wanting to be "woke" or "left" is just cancer. Everyone should aim to be both those things, it's better for you and your country as a whole.
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u/SlightAbies9860 Limpopo Apr 11 '26
I agree, having a balanced view in a country with over 11 ethnic groups is important and using the language of Americans makes you foreign in a place where it is easy to be a foreigner.
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u/SlightAbies9860 Limpopo Apr 11 '26
Although she is right that the DA has been against ethno-populism which is why they were anti-apartheid, her claim of saving the DA from woke and left whatever messes with the good point she is making. I just never heard someone claiming anti-left or woke having a balanced view.
Woke is not even relevant to South Africa, is she even talking to South Africans?
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
You know she wrote a book about it too, right? #StayWoke: Go Broke: Why South Africa won’t survive America’s culture wars (and what you can do about it) https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B093RZJGSX?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_nz
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u/peacecupcakeenjoyer Redditor for 19 days Apr 11 '26
Ouma thinks lives in Texas. does she know that we are in the global south where America = bad
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u/Solid_Fox2459 Apr 11 '26
Can never trust someone with a haircut like that to be in a position of power.
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u/RupertHermano Apr 11 '26
We saved DA from one version of kakka by dipping it into a whole bucket of other kakka. Why choose one kakka but not the other? Politics man...
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u/tastexst Apr 11 '26
Genuinely hate this woman so bad
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u/KinkyStonerVibes Gauteng Apr 11 '26
With every fibre of my being, with every breath I have left in my body
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u/Environmental_Elk461 Apr 12 '26
Ah Helen if you'd just shut up youd get more votes but everything you open your mouth i know I cannot vote for the DA.
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u/Djentmatron9000 Apr 11 '26
I swear to god, please do not vote for this party. The worst thing the ANC ever did was making the bare minimum an achievement given how the DA would flex about fixing pot holes.
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u/unremarkableDragon Apr 12 '26
*flex about fixing potholes in the right (white) areas.
Fixed it for you.
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Apr 11 '26 edited 22d ago
[deleted]
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u/Cosmolina111 Apr 11 '26
The Daily Maverick did a deep dive before the last elections. Might still be mostly relevant...
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u/Britz10 Landed Gentry Apr 11 '26
Isn't she supposed to be on the campaign trail? Outside a few people who are obsessed with American politics, this nonsense doesn't really work here.
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u/thedavidventer Limpopo Apr 12 '26
Maybe this strange pothole swimmer should go to the racist religious land of bigotry on asylum.
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
Orania or Dumpfuckistan are both good choices for Zilleberg
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u/Opheleone Apr 12 '26
The DA loves scoring own goals, and its primarily their older members like Helen and John.
It blows my mind because its almost completely contradictory to how someone like Geordin Hill Lewis actually functions, and what I mean is Geordin might agree with Helens statement, but he isn't stupid enough to say it and push for this kind of rhetoric because he knows it doesn't create a sense of belonging for people who want a political home with them.
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u/Beyond_the_one The opposite of efficiency, which is to say, justice Apr 12 '26
Maybe if Geordin actually did something about the housing crisis in CPT, that would be nice.
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u/Opheleone Apr 12 '26
Yea i dont think he is addressing it, but I also think a large part of the problem is the migration of the rest of the country to Cape Town as semi-gration statistics have shown.
Here in Durbanville, there's so many developments popping up, and one is currently being debated by the community and nimbys are going wild.
I honestly think fixing other parts of the country would help with our housing more than most things.
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u/MancyMancy Apr 11 '26
Helen has been MGA, literal Make America Great Again publicly for a decade, nothing new here.
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u/peacecupcakeenjoyer Redditor for 19 days Apr 12 '26
I love how the vf+ is nailing the pretend to be cute thing. I know the English speaking media probably doesn't cover them so much.
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u/redditissahasbaraop Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
What the hell is that supposed to mean? I would never vote DA but it's a damn shame there's no alternative to the ANC (who sound good, on paper). I guess a coalition government is the best way to keep government in check
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
It's her way of avoiding the SAHRC by not using the slurs she actually wants to use.
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u/darth_shitto2 Apr 13 '26
I've become so disillusioned with electoralism. In every democracy, majority of politicians are just charlatans acting at the behest of moneyed interests. And it feels like voting/electoral politics is just an illusion to placate people into thinking that they have control.
At least in an authoritarian non-democratic system like China, the possibility of civil unrest is far higher because people have no other way to show their discontentment. So leaders are forced to listen to their people more.
Of course that system is also far from being good. But it's just to illustrate how the current paradigm of neoliberal democracy is so dysfunctional, that dictatorship is starting to seem enticing.
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u/Wisteriiea Apr 13 '26
Just in time for local elections. I’m crying lmfaoo how do you mess up this bad?😭😭
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u/k0bra3eak Apr 13 '26
God this woman is unlikable, she's effectively stamped out almost every possible broader appealing candidate in the DA for ages
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u/No-Reflection-5323 Apr 14 '26
Living in Cape Town after coming from Gauteng and seeing the DA effect. I live in a nice area and I’m shocked at how they fail with the other areas. The inequality, the lack of dignity. The comments of “our areas are nice because we pay taxes and we maintain it”, meanwhile everyone pays tax. I honestly thought the DA was going to win in JHB and do the same nonsense. Glad to see people are not fooled. I used to respect the DA as an opposition party, after coming to CT, they’re no better than MAGA to me.
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u/Necessary-Bend-8015 Apr 11 '26
I’m not historically a DA supporter and dislike Zille immensely but Cape Town’s mayor Geordin Hill Lewis is incredible. Wish he had more spotlight nationally than this nutcase
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
Nah, GHL is a sack of shit. When asked what he would do about the cost of living crisis in Cape Town driving people out of their homes his response was "just move elsewhere, bro".
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u/unremarkableDragon Apr 12 '26
Geordin is a racist zionist pos and he can go kick rocks. He is not my mayor and the furthest thing from incredible. Incredibly punchable, maybe.
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
I really hate the whole woke thing. (Edit: This was probably a bad sentence. I should really say I hate what the word woke has become as it is weaponised by the media and politics. I hate the label and how it's used.)
It started just by wanting to be nicer to people. Don't use racial slurs. Be conscientious towards people that are less privileged or have hurdles they have to deal with that you don't have. Be free to practice your personal belief system and culture as long as you don't impact others negatively. etc etc
Fuck man, just be a good neighbour type of things. Golden rule and all that.
It was a system of accountability and safety for people that needed and wanted to speak out about things that were done to them to try to get justice.
It took a turn at some point and became a witchhunt where people were just immediately fully "cancelled"/judged people before they even had time to read an article beyond the headline. There was too much joy in the downfall of people. I don't fully understand when or how it went wrong, but to a certain extent we overcorrected and it became a thing that was just ruining parties/social events where there was really nothing you were going to change by bringing up something out of the blue. I mean yeah, standup against someone being racist/sexist/being an asshole, but damn it sometimes feels like we (I see we, because I am guilty of this) annoyed people all the way into fascism.
So we have been at the point where we need to course correct for a while now and I actually think we are starting to do a lot better.
My point after this whole tangent is that steering away from the negative parts of the left movement is something we need to keep doing. Find the balance where we can keep the real terrible people accountable, but not rip the head off of someone that is naive or ignorant and might just need a constructive conversation to maybe just nudge them in the right direction. They won't change over night, but some empathy and positive vibes can help to move them along.
Zille though just LOVES wanting to be some kind of saviour and martyr. She irritates me so fucking much. She refuses to EVER admit wrong. She gives me narcissist vibes at times, but it might just be a bloated ego.
Edit: Damn, I keep forgetting how critical thinking and trying to delve into ideas on reddit really is not a good idea. 😂 I think I'll unpause my Bob's Burgers rewatch and keep on lurking. I'll stay in my lane.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
Who got "cancelled", specifically?
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 11 '26
Jessica Fraser, a family friend.
You know her?
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u/OG_NIK Apr 11 '26
Where are all these people who had their lives ruined by cancellation and the woke left? Was it Epstein, Diddy, or Cosby? Or Penny Sparrow? Or Zuma? Who are these innocent people that were just a little naive who were so badly punished that we needed Trump back?
Meanwhile thousands are being killed in the Middle East right now and the global economy is tanking because of the far right.
The left and right are not the same at all and this “course correction” is destroying the world.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
Edit: Damn, I keep forgetting how critical thinking and trying to delve into ideas on reddit really is not a good idea. 😂 I think I'll unpause my Bob's Burgers rewatch and keep on lurking.
It's amazing how your entire "critical thinking" and "muh deeper ideas" shtick fell apart as soon as people asked for evidence of what you were saying.
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 12 '26
Honestly, providing evidence means very little to this whole reddit dance. I'm not even talking about specific celebrities. I'm referring to some unknown person saying something out of context or out of nativity, but people absolutely ripping them apart without taking any nuance into account. Yet you can't think beyond the need for me to write a peer reviewed study on how someone's family cut them off with no conversation or anything.
Shit man, there are people in rural areas that have never met a gay person not when to mention one that's same sex married. Expecting that person to respond to things with nuance and understanding is just not realistic.
As to why I don't give evidence or dedicate my life to backing up a random Reddit comment I made. I've wasted enough of me life to try to inform people that just are not open to thinking beyond what they already believe. It's useless. Writing even his response actually breaks my rules of using reddit these days.
Just approaching things with empathy and an open attitude to talk about something can help. I'm not talking about trying to convince nazis and zionists. Just have a conversation with that aunt or uncle that's problematic instead of writing them off.
But you're going to do what you're going to do and you'll believe what you believe. I don't have any control over that. 🤷♂️
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
So it's not so much "I wAnt tO haVe a CriTicAL iN-dePtH diScuSsiOn" and more "I want to speak at people and not have them question me".
I'm referring to some unknown person saying something out of context or out of nativity, but people absolutely ripping them apart without taking any nuance into account. Yet you can't think beyond the need for me to write a peer reviewed study on how someone's family cut them off with no conversation or anything.
So this isn't so much cancel culture as it is family drama and without us having access to the facts, we're just supposed to take your word for it? I hope you, with all your talk of "critical thinking" can understand why we can't do that.
Shit man, there are people in rural areas that have never met a gay person not when to mention one that's same sex married. Expecting that person to respond to things with nuance and understanding is just not realistic.
I think that strips rural people of their agency and humanity and characterises them as bumbling fools who can't treat people with respect and understanding. But again, in these made-up scenarios where only you have access to the facts, it's difficult to come to any sort of conclusion.
As to why I don't give evidence or dedicate my life to backing up a random Reddit comment I made. I've wasted enough of me life to try to inform people that just are not open to thinking beyond what they already believe. It's useless. Writing even his response actually breaks my rules of using reddit these days.
You're not informing anyone, you're asking us to take your word for the inane nonsense you spew and instead of doing the littlest bit to back you your claims, you throw a fit about how no one wants to think critically or deeply. You have no standing.
Just approaching things with empathy and an open attitude to talk about something can help. I'm not talking about trying to convince nazis and zionists. Just have a conversation with that aunt or uncle that's problematic instead of writing them off.
Most people do that. If someone chooses not to, that is their right and it's not "cancel culture" it's "setting boundaries". However, again, you won't grace us with the facts of these made-up scenarios, so it's moot.
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 12 '26
Would be interesting to have an actual conversation about this even if you are insanely adversarial.
Do you live near Cape Town? Ever want to talk in person?
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 12 '26
No thanks. If you're unwilling to say what you need to say here, I don't see how meeting in person would be more fruitful.
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 12 '26
I just prefer real actual conversations with real people when it comes to interesting and nuanced topics.
I do however understand that you'd prefer to stay anonymous and safe. The world is a rough place and not trusting random online people really does tend to be the best option.
If you feel like having a real conversation feel free to DM me and we could chat on Google Meets and if needed you can stay anonymous there and record it.
Yet, I would understand if you still would prefer to keep things completely disconnected for safety etc.
All the best. I really hope the country gets to its full potential for all of us.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 13 '26
I prefer not to waste my time with weasels. If you're too dishonest and disingenuous to say what you need to say here, then there's not much evidence that an IRL meeting would go any better.
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u/StefanFrost Aristocracy Apr 13 '26
We could transcribe an Google Meets to text and post that here for full honesty and transparency.
I prefer to rather have an hour of an actual discussion than having to do a back and forth reddit comment where I might lose my train of thought in between comments.
The reality is that I have other obligations in life to attend to like most people, including yourself.
But then again this is mostly getting to the point of wasting my time now. I've tried to initiate a conversation in good faith, but mostly you've just insulted me, called me names and you hide your whole profile.
So if you still slither away from my invitation for a conversation then I'll bow out after this comment.
All I did here was make a comment voicing a frustration that I've thought about, which others have voiced as well from many different cultures, religions and creeds that I've had very interesting and informative conversations with, that obviously has incredible nuance. I've learned through that process and wanted to do the same here. You clearly don't.
All the best to you and again I hope the country gets to a place that shows its true potential for everyone living here instead of just seemingly enriching the elites.
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 13 '26
We could, but we won't. I don't know how to make it any more clear that I'm not interested in that.
Like you said, you have actual obligations and so do I, so an hour or more of my time just isn't worth it when I can have an asynchronous discussion here.
Your "good faith" clause dissipated the moment you made overtures about critical thinking and in-depth discussions being lost.
I don't doubt that you've had interesting conversations, so have I. What I doubt however is that you brought those people closer to your purported point of view of "racism bad, misogyny bad". Instead, I think what's happened is that after those conversations you've found it easier to compromise your morals in the service of being social. There's a reason you're trying to run defence for racists and homophobes while criticising "the woke" with made-up boogeymen.
I'm happy to have a conversation with you, just not on your terms. If that triggers you, so be it.
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u/VegetableCrafty6436 Apr 11 '26
As an American, is it fair to compare her to Hilary Clinton? Undeniably experienced figure that randomly goes off on right-wing talking points as a way to show how centrist she is?
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u/MancyMancy Apr 11 '26
She is worse, Hilary has never gone on speeches about how the trans kids are ruining schools or vaccines are a a problem. Hilary was a war hawk centrist, Helen is proudly MAGA.
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u/Darannosaurus_Rex Apr 11 '26
Hillary is competent, despite how people feel about her. Helen is and always has been a blowhard.
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Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MalemasMucusPlug Apr 11 '26
And i still think conservative/republican values are better
Which values are those? Raping kids, killing kids, or covering up Donald Trump's raping of kids?
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u/KinkyStonerVibes Gauteng Apr 11 '26
Just came here to point this out. Thanks. In the "post Truth Reality", one has to be quite literal with people - so I ask people, "sorry, when you say 'his strong christian morals', do you mean his illiterate, incompetent, pedo stuff or the dementia mango, war crimes stuff?
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u/Mundane_mann122 Apr 11 '26
Thats not real conservative values. And both sides did this. And the dems would've covered it up just as much if not more. Remember they had to have known trump was in the files, yet they didn't run on it, because they also have people in it. If the dems got elected we might never even have gotten these files even released in a redacted form.
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