r/smashbros • u/StopTheVok • Oct 10 '19
Other I invested my lifesavings into Wavedash, watched it fail and then decided to buy the whole Company to release the Icons: Legacy Edition and continue development under a new name. AMA
Hi /r/SmashBros I know that ya'll have had mixed feelings about Icons... the truth is I did too. Hoping that we can agree that there were a lot of very avoidable issues that plagued Icons, but also that there is still a potential future for it! (Assuming we can fix key issues!)
Recently announced article: https://www.dualshockers.com/icons-combat-arena-post-mortem-definitive-edition/FAQ
About the Legacy Edition: https://vortexrising.substack.com/p/thank-you-to-wavedash-and-our-fans
What's next for Wavedash: https://vortexrising.substack.com/p/update-on-wavedash-games
Yesterday's live stream which shows gameplay, new skins and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MRcUf-nBM4&feature=youtu.be
TLDR on Legacy Edition
- Fulfills the promise of a 'Definitive' version. Functions as a time capsule / snapshot of the game while my team and I make progress on development.
- INTENDED TO BE FREE for anyone who bought a Founders Pack, Pro Pack or Character in Icons. See FAQ for details
- Includes all 8 characters, including never-before-released Ezzie, and all cosmetic content.
- NO LOOTBOXES, or any in-game transactions of any kind
- Input delay on local play was removed.
- Global access with P2P netplay (better latency, too).
- Offline mode available.
- Some long-requested moveset changes were implemented (Raymer, particularly, has a grenade. Kidd has *Wolf* shine.)
- As openly discussed on yesterday's stream, the game will retail for $4.99. We want to get this into as many hands as possible.
Proof: https://twitter.com/wewavedash/status/1182320167260491777
AMA Ended (Parting notes below)
EDIT: Okay guys!! Thank you so much. I went on answering questions from 11am till 4:35pm ET! Going to need a break. While I was doing the Q&A I updated some art / branding assets for Icons. This was based on a prompt from yesterday's stream. Today we iterated and - now - here we are. Check them out here: https://twitter.com/IconsArena
Lastly - Please check out our next public stream this Friday @ 6:30pm ET. Will be going live here --> https://youtu.be/2_yqM8BXEVs
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u/DBrowny Oct 11 '19 edited Oct 11 '19
I know the AMA is over, a bit annoyed I missed it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I believe smash is WAY more popular than it deserves to be with regards to being a game that people play competitive simply because it features Nintendo characters. Nintendo has a cult-like following, everyone knows it. People are drawn to it because it has an ensemble cast of fan favourite characters, and they stay for the same reason. The fact that its a 'fighting game' makes no difference whatsoever to its longevity. I believe that if melee existed exactly the same was as it did today but with 26 completely brand new OC characters, who were never featured in any other game, the game would have fizzled hard. The only reason the game ends up being competitive is because it has such a massive install base. Ultimate sold 13M copies and can't even break 100k vieweship at majors, whether people like to admit it or not, less than 1% of people who buy smash, care about it competitively.
How this ties into Icons, is that you can make the most technically perfect, visually stunning, audibly spine-tingling fighting game but at best you are going to appease to only 1% of the platform fighter market out there. And that 1% you are trying to appease? They are already invested in their game of choice to the tune of multiple thousands of hours. You just can't touch them... so why bother? Why not go after the 99% who bought smash, played it and enjoyed it for a bit, before moving onto other games?
To go for the broadest appeal, its going to involve making the characters really interesting, and this is what Overwatch did well. There was synergy among everyone, a story behind it all. Even the most boring of their 30-odd OC characters was still interesting and more importantly... they looked good and many of them seemed to do it for fun. This is what I felt Icons biggest mistake was. It just all seemed so serious but for what reason? Where the most popular game in the world of its type features EVO grand finals of jigglypuff sleeping on a princess to make her blow up, that tells you all you need to know about how 'serious' a game needs to be, for it to be popular.
Make the characters more stand-out and goofy if need be. Give them a dumb reason to be battling and perhaps even go the way of brawl-. Make every character 'absurd' in their own unique way. Will it be less 'competitive?' Of course it would be, but you aren't going to drag one single melee vet away from their game by challenging it on technical proficiency. You can perhaps make something new and exciting. Weishan for example could be like some john wick style pugilist who uses a ton of very unconventional ways to hurt opponents with a range of weapons, smack them with his armour etc. Kidd have some samus-style gun which has all sorts of different beams with weird effects. Make Zhurong have all of her attacks look really elegant to the point that it probably is a detriment to fighting (look at Lucario in brawl for a good example here and watch how he charges his smash attacks, all the movements and flairs he does make it look like hes dancing). Think of mewtwos dsmash and a horizontal strike, but with a sword and she looks away while doing it with some sort of 'begone, peasant' look. Anything to give them character.