r/smashbros • u/StopTheVok • Oct 10 '19

Other I invested my lifesavings into Wavedash, watched it fail and then decided to buy the whole Company to release the Icons: Legacy Edition and continue development under a new name. AMA

Hi /r/SmashBros I know that ya'll have had mixed feelings about Icons... the truth is I did too. Hoping that we can agree that there were a lot of very avoidable issues that plagued Icons, but also that there is still a potential future for it! (Assuming we can fix key issues!)

Recently announced article: https://www.dualshockers.com/icons-combat-arena-post-mortem-definitive-edition/FAQ

About the Legacy Edition: https://vortexrising.substack.com/p/thank-you-to-wavedash-and-our-fans

What's next for Wavedash: https://vortexrising.substack.com/p/update-on-wavedash-games

Yesterday's live stream which shows gameplay, new skins and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MRcUf-nBM4&feature=youtu.be

​

TLDR on Legacy Edition

  • Fulfills the promise of a 'Definitive' version. Functions as a time capsule / snapshot of the game while my team and I make progress on development.
  • INTENDED TO BE FREE for anyone who bought a Founders Pack, Pro Pack or Character in Icons. See FAQ for details
  • Includes all 8 characters, including never-before-released Ezzie, and all cosmetic content.
  • NO LOOTBOXES, or any in-game transactions of any kind
  • Input delay on local play was removed.
  • Global access with P2P netplay (better latency, too).
  • Offline mode available.
  • Some long-requested moveset changes were implemented (Raymer, particularly, has a grenade. Kidd has *Wolf* shine.)
  • As openly discussed on yesterday's stream, the game will retail for $4.99. We want to get this into as many hands as possible.

Proof: https://twitter.com/wewavedash/status/1182320167260491777

​

AMA Ended (Parting notes below)

EDIT: Okay guys!! Thank you so much. I went on answering questions from 11am till 4:35pm ET! Going to need a break. While I was doing the Q&A I updated some art / branding assets for Icons. This was based on a prompt from yesterday's stream. Today we iterated and - now - here we are. Check them out here: https://twitter.com/IconsArena

Lastly - Please check out our next public stream this Friday @ 6:30pm ET. Will be going live here --> https://youtu.be/2_yqM8BXEVs

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55

u/BrunoBRS aka Darshell Oct 10 '19

Kidd has Wolf shine.

i think this is the core of what rubbed so many people the wrong way. icons felt so derivative in its design, so laser focused on copying smash instead of making it its own thing, that even the people behind the game describe game mechanics through smash comparisons. and, well, we already have smash.

i guess this brings me to the question of... do you have any plans to try and set icons apart from being considered a melee knockoff, from mechanics to movesets?

sorry if the post came off as harsh BTW, it's not my intention to diminish the effort put into making the game.

21

u/huskers37 Oct 10 '19

Yea I see what you're saying, but it's tough not to compare moves to Smash moves. Rivals does the same thing where people will compare Wrastor to like a Jigglypuff/Marth hybrid or Absa like a Pikachu/Zelda. The difference being that Rivals does a lot of great things with their characters as well that make them unique.

42

u/MajorasAss Young Link (Melee) Oct 10 '19

A Jigglypuff/Marth hybrid is unique. A Pikachu/Zelda hybrid is unique.

And as you say, Absa and Wrastor have more than that-- Wrastor is also a bit like Falco, he also got Meta Knight's tornado... and both have completely unique things too.

Zhurong is just fucking Marth. She was just Marth. Not only in her moves, but her personality and archetype were similar. Kidd was mostly Spacie (including aesthetically). Ashani was mostly Captain Falcon-- the more unique characters like Raymer were there, but it was hard to shake the impression of a lack of originality because even the unique movesets were slapped onto Mobile Game/Chinese Moba tier character designs.

Slap City and Rivals felt like love letters. Icons never shook the aura of copied homework.

17

u/huskers37 Oct 10 '19

I agree with literally everything you said. Icons was way too carbon copy of Smash. I don't really have an issue with comparing a move to a similar move to a different game though. The bigger problem is that there isn't anything unique about the rest of the moveset.

Like you just said, "he also got Meta Knight's tornado". I don't have a problem with that comparison. The problem would be if the rest of his toolkit is bland, which it isn't. Kidd on the other hand was uninspired.

9

u/BrunoBRS aka Darshell Oct 10 '19

rivals mixes up mechanics and character playstyles enough to stand out on their own. it's one thing to try and describe a character through analogies, it's another for a dev to come out and say "so this character has that specific move from smash".

it's not like it's a generic move like a hadoken or a shoryuken either.

7

u/huskers37 Oct 10 '19

I get it. He called it Wolf shine because people in the stream called it Wolf shine. So it's just easier to communicate it that way.

14

u/StopTheVok Oct 10 '19

Right now the existing cast in Vortex Rising is comprised of the Icons cast. However, we are making changes to mix things up a bit. Things will be markedly different in terms of combo play and the core game modes. Additionally, we will keep pushing in the direction of the back half of Icons roster: Raymer, Afi & Galu, Weishan, Ezzie, etc.

9

u/MajorasAss Young Link (Melee) Oct 10 '19

Additionally, we will keep pushing in the direction of the back half of Icons roster: Raymer, Afi & Galu, Weishan, Ezzie, etc.

That's awesome to hear. I feel like stuff like that was too little too late, by the time I was beginning to be intrigued by the character concepts Icons had one foot in the grave.

10

u/StopTheVok Oct 10 '19

Yeah. Unfortunately... I feel like Icons learned what it had to do, but it learned it too late. The damage was done when they launched with Zhurong and Kidd front and center.

11

u/MajorasAss Young Link (Melee) Oct 10 '19

I fucking hate Kidd. I know he's supposed to be a little tongue in cheek, but it's more like MegaBloks to Fox's Lego than the Dreamworks version of Fox's Pixar. And lots of people don't even like Dreamworks.

9

u/StopTheVok Oct 10 '19

I am not a fan of Kidd either, tbh. I'm having fun with that in Vortex Rising.

3

u/Jecarosa Oct 11 '19

Make Dark Kidd; guy could use some angst. You're welcome!