r/sleeptrain 3.5yo + 1yo | CIO <-> Check & Console Dec 27 '22

Let's Chat Troubleshooting Schedule 101: Figuring out your baby's sleep requirement

[EDIT 12/27 to add this note: There is zero need to get anxious about "baby is not getting enough sleep". I read up on the literature around sleep and development (medical researcher myself). While there is physiologic basis to suspect that good sleep -> better development, the evidence is quite slight and biology is so powerful that the vast majority of babies/parents are probably getting enough sleep for normal development. More consolidated sleep/normal schedule are great for parental wellbeing, and parental wellbeing is super important, but there is zero need to feel guilty as a parent if your baby isn't doing those AND you are okay with its effect on your lifestyle and still able to function the way you want to. However, if you are getting too tired/burnt out by your baby's sleep patterns, understanding his/her sleep requirement may help you get him/her on pattern that enables you to function better.]

So I've been on this sub for a while now and learning a lot from everyone. One recurrent thing that is almost behind every post I see: is my baby getting too much or not enough sleep?

In troubleshooting every sleep issue with my own baby, the most useful piece of info that I have uncovered is my own baby's sleep requirement. I can say pretty comfortably now that my almost 8mo's sleep requirement is about 13.5-14 hours a day, and has been around that since 4 months. It doesn't matter to me if the AVERAGE baby is sleeping 13 hours around this age: I know he is maximally happy with 13.5-14 hours. Knowing this has made figuring out his schedule SO MUCH easier, because I know his total wake time needs to be 10-10.5 hours, BUT if he had a few days where he didn't get 13.5-14 hours I'd need to catch him up and let him sleep a bit more. So I just wanted to share some observations that I made while uncovering that piece of info.

To uncover the info, I took a week where I thought my baby is getting enough sleep and averaged the daily sleep over that week. And then I applied extrapolation based on the following:

-babies sleep the most in the first 2 months, then sleep requirement decreases by about 1 hour between month 3 and month 12 (https://parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-chart/) -- however, babies stay in their percentile, which means that a high sleep-needs newborn sleeping 17 hours a day will in all likelihood need 16 hours at 6 months

-while reading about averages in the chart above, realize that those are averages of how much babies are sleeping, not how much sleep they need - it is very difficult to make anyone, babies or not, sleep more than they need, but it is easy to make a baby not sleep enough, therefore the amount of sleep babies need is probably higher than the average amount slept that babies are getting

Five criteria to tell if baby is getting enough sleep

  1. Stable schedule that doesn't vary a ton from day to day (consistent wake up time and bedtime, roughly consistent amount of day sleep and night sleep);
  2. Easy to settle at nap time (<10 minutes) and at bedtime (<20 minutes);
  3. Good night sleep with a long, continuous stretch of sleep where wakings are very brief, don't require resettling, or only requiring a night feed if age appropriate;
  4. Baby stays awake on stroller rides, car rides, and during feeding (unless it's at the very end of their wake windows);
  5. Baby and caregivers are all happy with the schedule. A happy baby is energetic, calm, eats well, and poops well.

Stability is the most important criteria. This is because a hallmark of overtiredness/chronic sleep deprivation is bad nights interspersed with a good night/day here and there, the "crash" night/day where the baby is so exhausted he/she crashes for a 12/24-hour segment and has the edge taken off just enough that he/she is ready to be unsettled again. During the "crash" night/day his/her sleep duration may be higher than his/her actual sleep requirement.

What if there never seems to be a good week?

Then it is probably safe to assume that your baby is NOT getting enough sleep, and address the main reasons:

  1. a schedule that doesn't allow for enough sleep (e.g. wake window too long OR too many naps/wake windows) or has sleep in the wrong places (e.g. not enough time for night sleep [time between bedtime and out of crib time])
  2. sleep association (having a parent-led sleep association and not being able to fall asleep or connect cycles independently)
  3. psychological needs in older babies / toddlers (e.g. anxiety, fear, boundary testing)
  4. insufficient caloric intake during the day
  5. inappropriate sleep environment (temperature, sleep wear, light exposure, noise)
  6. medical illness (e.g. sleep apnea, reflux)
  7. disruptors, e.g. developmental milestones (last weeks), teething (usually no more than a few days)
33 Upvotes

306 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/omegaxx19 3.5yo + 1yo | CIO <-> Check & Console Jun 14 '24

You're right, this is not a sleep needs decrease, this is the beginning of an overtired cycle.

Generally I find that my in crib time needs to exceed actual sleep need by about an hour for us to not fall behind, esp with daycare nap. One thing I look at is sleep latency: if kiddo is out within 15min of putdown at night, it means I need to put him down earlier. I aim for ~30min latency at bedtime (naps it matters a bit less I find).

I'd start by offering bedtime 1-1.5 hour earlier than usual (so 6:30-7) every other day or so. If she can fall asleep before her usual bedtime (during wake maintenance zone), it tells you that she's got a lot of sleep debt on board.

Offering nap earlier also helps my son nap longer in these cases. You would still keep bedtime the same with the longer nap, or even do early nap -- slightly longer nap but waking up earlier in the day because nap started early-- earlier bedtime.

1

u/Newmamaof1 Jun 15 '24

I'm nervous of doing such an early bedtime if she's waking early though, would she not just wake up after 11hrs (what she tends to max out at unless she's ill)? It's also hard to fit early bedtime in our day but I'll definitely try maybe 7-7.30pm and earlier nap on the days we have her at home until things settle down. Any idea why the waking and immediately crying & standing happened in the first place? 

1

u/omegaxx19 3.5yo + 1yo | CIO <-> Check & Console Jun 15 '24

Early bedtimes are frequently necessary to address sleep debt. Baby Sleep Science has a great article on early vs late bedtimes that explain why and how they work. My son is usually an 11 hour kid as well but he can easily knock out 12 hours if he’s got a sleep debt.

Try it on a Friday so if she wakes up early on Saturday and doesn’t fall back asleep, you can try an earlier nap.

My guess on how it started is developmental leap + having no room to catch up in her schedule due to daycare. My son’s daycare nap was like this from 16m when we transitioned to one nap until 22m or so. Since 22m daycare nap has been more consistent. Until then  we did earlier nap on weekends (and he’d nap 2-3 hours) and early bedtimes twice a week to keep the sleep debt in check.

1

u/Newmamaof1 Jun 16 '24

We managed the early bedtime and she fell asleep at 7.30pm (put down 7.10pm, so took her usual 20 mins to fall asleep), so 45 mins earlier than normal. She woke at 5.50am crying briefly and rolling around but did fall back to sleep till 7am. She's in a much better mood today. Nap though was only 1.5hrs so we still haven't got back to her usual 2hrs although she was briefly upset on waking she then was happy very quickly and shouting "park, park". Any thoughts on what to do next? Keep offering 1hr early bedtime every other day? Nap will be tricky to do anything with until Weds when I'm off work. 

1

u/omegaxx19 3.5yo + 1yo | CIO <-> Check & Console Jun 16 '24

Yup early bedtime every other day or so. Wait 15-20min after she wakes up from the nap—it doesn’t happen too often these days but my son will fall back asleep some times if he’s super tired.

1

u/Newmamaof1 Jun 16 '24

Okay, I'll wait longer with nap - even if she's crying/upset? I wasn't sure if leaving her longer crying would just lead her to think if she keeps crying then I'll come? Equally I think at this age once she's had 90 mins nap, likelihood of falling back to sleep is small. I could offer earlier nap on Weds, we managed to offer it 15 mins earlier today but it was hard to get lunch in etc to make it 30 mins earlier. Thoughts on 15 mins earlier bedtime on non-super early bedtime days if nap has been 1.5hrs rather than 2hrs?

1

u/omegaxx19 3.5yo + 1yo | CIO <-> Check & Console Jun 16 '24

The slightly earlier bedtime sounds like a good idea.

Crying on waking up in an independent sleeper is usually a sign of lingering sleep pressure still. It’s what happened at 5a today. Practicing the waiting approach helps them learn to calm down, realize that they’re still sleepy, and practice falling back asleep. Just try it for a few days. My son fell back asleep 3 days ago after waking up at 2 hours, and I had to wake him up to not push bedtime later.

1

u/Newmamaof1 Jun 16 '24

That makes logical sense - I'll try it!