r/sleeptrain • u/Spiritual-Arrival443 • 14d ago
4 - 6 months I can't do this anymore
I need advice (and so many prayers) on how people sleep trained a highly sensitive high needs velcro/FOMO baby. My baby is nearly 5 months and it's all been HELL. I never got the newborn bubble, and we're still crying hard most of the time and every day and every night. I'm a first time mum who was expecting multiple wake ups to feed and console but this has been absolutely life draining and pushing me into depression. During the day the smallest thing will make him spiral and I don't think it's always tiredness - I've tried adjusting wake windows and getting more daytime sleep, earlier bedtime. All naps are full contact with bouncing or rocking and white noise. But I can't start his nap too soon or he has a meltdown, dark rooms make him cry these days, the white noise sometimes makes him cry too. Maybe it's just negative associations now with how much he fights sleep, then spirals into inconsolable crying from being overtired. He's never slept in his crib because he hates it. I've tried warming it, I've tried very very very slow put down feet first. I've tried drowsy but awake which just pisses him off and makes him cry inconsolably for a hour or more even after pickup. I've tried putting down awake which also pisses him off. I've tried everything I can think of but nothing is working and he's crying so much during the day as well I'm so worn out I'm actually hating life. I can't take this anymore.
He's BF but also bottle fed with expressed milk when my husband or parents feed him during my 4.5 hour sleep. But the real crux is how his sleep has gotten so bad that he cannot nap or sleep unless he's being held or attached to my nipples. Even if we're holding him he'll still wake at least once every hour. if we even try to put him down he wakes up and goes from 0-100 with absolutely inconsolable crying even with one of us holding and trying to soothe him. It goes on for an hour sometimes and nothing will soothe him except BF. He hates dummies and spits them out. He cries like the world is ending and he turns red and sweaty and coughs and vomits. I've ended up Co-sleeping which I never wanted to do but even then he'll only sleep lying down if he's on his side sucking on my breast. As soon as he detaches he cries. I'm so sad he's crying so hard even if we're trying to soothe him, he's basically in my arms and feeding all night.
He's still got reflux which the GP refuses to medicate and just vomits all the time, but isn't always upset by it anymore but because he's just constantly feeding overnight he's vomiting and waking then crying, then comfort feeding and the cycle repeats.
I've stopped meeting other mums and trying to go to groups because everyone else has chill babies and loving life and it makes me hate my life more. I love my baby in the short windows when he's happy but I'm starting to spiral and I need something to get better.
For anyone who had a similar reflux, colicky, high needs, highly sensitive FOMO/Velcro baby - how did you sleep train and did it work?
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u/Decent-Hippo-615 2 yr & 4 mo | complete 14d ago
What are his wake windows and how much total nap sleep is he getting?
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Wake windows vary across the day and how much he naps but on average around 2 hours with 3-4 hours daytime naps. Average wake windows are 1/2/2.5/2. Sometimes 1.5/2/2/2. I've tried extending the morning one but it's a definite no go - entertainment with toys or singing or moving to different rooms or going outside will only placate him for 2-3min before he fusses and starts to cry. If he cat naps 30-40min and wakes up crying intensely I rescue with a feed and extend to over an hour which makes him happier. If he's had a bridge nap around 5 for a bedtime of 7-8 he's very unhappy after waking. But even if he had a long nap before 6 he's unhappy by 6:30pm and I think it's genuine tiredness. Nothing makes the red eyebrows go away and the crying starts rapidly.
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 14d ago
Your situation is not unique. This sounds like any other undertired baby reliant on heavy sleep assistance.
Ensure he is getting 10 hours scheduled awake time. 2/2.5/2.5/3 wake windows. Cap day sleep at 3 hours total. 11 hours night sleep. Before you say he can't be awake any longer than he is - he can and already is. He's just doing it at night. We need to bring it back into the day
Bed time routine ensure final feed is finished at least 30 minutes before butt in crib. Put down wide awake in his own room.
Commit to sleep training to teach him independent sleep using your chosen method. Ferber would work well here.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
His wake windows depend on how well rested he is so I watch out for cues rather than strict wake windows. So if he's zoning out, getting red eyebrows and starting to fuss even when we've tried changing environment, play, feed, etc and it's not going away I start his nap.
Did you leave yours in their own room alone? I'm sleeping in the same room as my baby until 6 months according to recommendations from the Lullaby Trust
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 13d ago
I saw your other comment with your wake windows of 1/2/2.5/2. Sometimes 1.5/2/2/2. That is 7.5 hours awake. This is basically all of your problem right here. You are missing 2.5 hours of awake time in your schedule so baby is getting it at night.
Following cues is not reliable at this age. Strict wake windows are so heavily emphasised here for good reason. A 5 month old is typically going to sleep 14 hours per 24. We want 11 of those at night, and 3 of them for day sleep. That leaves 10 hours of awake time. If we do not account for that with strict wake windows, baby WILL make up for the rest during the night without fail. Scheduling in 10 hours awake is a must.
Before you say baby can't be awake for long wake windows, yes they can. They already are awake longer, it's just happening at night. The only way to move it back into the day is to push through the fussiness and extend daily wake times.
We moved my LO into her own room at 6 months. Knowing what I know now I would have moved her much earlier. Being in the same room as us was disturbing her sleep much more than we knew.
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u/Chocolateonmyshoe 14d ago
My baby was similar for a few weeks where any wake up from a nap led to inconsolable crying and turning red. I noticed that crinkly books right up to his ear helped distract him enough to calm down. I also noticed when he napped more during the day, it led him to wake up less angry. And usually when he woke up like that, he pooped soon after. I can’t help with the sleeping by himself part because I’m still trying to make it happen. But I think noise distractions helped my baby calm down quicker
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Mine also is happier with longer naps most of the time but very noise sensitive and wakes at the slightest noise. I hope it gets better for you too!
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u/Hellylp 14d ago edited 14d ago
My almost 6 month old is an absolute velcro baby who only contact naps or he won’t sleep, fights sleep like no other, and has to be rocked like crazy to sleep. It was dragging my mental health down so we started sleep training like 5 days ago.
We are using the Ferber method and I was absolutely dreading having to let him cry. I figured he would cry himself alllll night long and never go to sleep because of how bad he fights it and how he can NOT be put down on a bassinet crib nothing or he goes nuts. There is no putting him down asleep, no slowly putting him down nothing. We give him a bath to help, play with him a lot before bed time and put him down with his white noise on. The first night he cried for about an hour, the second 7 minutes, then the next day 15 but slept all the way until 4:30/5:30. So he did so much better than I expected. But he’s still crying himself to sleep.
I was 100% prepared to sleep train all night even if it takes hours on end because I couldn’t take it anymore. It’s awful, I think I cried more than he did but I just tell myself I would rather feel the guilt of letting him cry (with check ins) for hours and a couple days hopefully than the guilt I would feel if I rolled over on him while co-sleeping because it came to the point where I had to choose something for my mental health and to get sleep. It was that or sleep training. I want to go in there while he’s crying more than anything but I force myself to not and to just know that this will be better for everyone in the long run.
Sorry I can’t help with the reflux and I’m still working on the sleep training myself but that’s what I’ve been able to do so far and it seems to be going in the right direction. He was very colicky for a while but we took him to the chiropractor but only like 3 times so I really don’t know if that did anything but we gave him gas drops like every 2 hours and that seemed to help! He was miserable like allllll the time screaming crying, the only way he would get any relief is when he was asleep. I don’t know if he just grew out of it or if the gas drops help that much but it’s worth a try if you don’t. And I still contact nap during the day and even before sleep training the only way I can get him to sleep was on my chest my hand on his head against my chest tight, patting his butt, and my cheek on his cheek while shooshing him.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
I'm hoping it continues to improve for you! Are you BF too? What did you end up doing for night feeds?
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u/BlueCheesePopcorn 14d ago
Our little guy (now 11 months) has never been a good sleeper either. But around 5/6 months he started getting ear infections and would scream/cry inconsolably when on a flat surface, ie crib, changing pad. He got tubes put in last month and it’s not a miraculous difference like some of my friends claim, but it certainly helped him. Sending positive vibes your way. The way through, is through. Currently typing this while up for the third wake of the night. This too shall pass for us both 💙
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Sending hugs and well wishes your way. Fingers crossed for us both xx
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u/AD_1827 13d ago
please hear this: you are not failing. you have a genuinely high needs baby with unmanaged reflux and you are doing this largely alone at 5 months in. this is not a parenting problem. this is a medical problem that hasn't been solved yet.
push back on the GP about the reflux. ask for a referral to a paediatrician. unmanaged reflux makes everything, sleep, feeding, settling, impossible because he's in physical pain. nothing will work until that's addressed.
you're not hating life. you're exhausted beyond what any human should have to sustain. that's not the same thing. please be gentle with yourself.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Thank you for your kindness. It's just hard to think I'm doing anything right when it's bad. I might try and ask again but they tend to wait until after 6 months to address reflux
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u/Turtleswimmer456 14d ago
I had a reflux baby. This sounds familiar . She only slept latched when her symptoms were at their worst. The first night on meds she slept five hours straight. Maybe talk to a different pediatrician? Or tell your doctor you'd like a two week trial?
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
I'm in the UK so they advise to wait until 6 months before addressing the reflux since they'll "grow out of it" to paraphrase. We can't just get a pediatrician to review sadly and need to go through GP
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u/Ok_Pumpkin_8531 13d ago
My baby was like this. Turns out she had CMPA. She's much more chilled now I've changed formula. She was in pain and crying and throwing up. Perhaps you could try eliminating dairy from your diet?
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
We weren't convinced it was because nobody in our family has it. Did anyone else in your family have it or did it happen to your baby out of the blue?
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u/Ok_Pumpkin_8531 13d ago
Completely out of the blue! I have an older daughter and she never had any issues. I thought she was just a very hands on/hard work baby. She cried all the time and most of the day. She was very gassy. Lots of farts and screamed every time! Worse on the build up to a bowel movement which was once a day if that. She woke in the night constantly with random hysteric cries because of tummy pain. She had a strange dry patch of skin on her shoulder, sneezed a lot, constantly sick and got nappy rash often. All of these were symptoms that I never realised! Within 48 hours of changing to the prescription formula, she was like a different baby. Previous to this, she got distressed any time anyone else held her for more than a few minutes, now she's very comfortable with others. It's honestly night and day.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Omg it sounds exactly like my baby at night with the gas! I need to re discuss this with my GP
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u/Ok_Pumpkin_8531 13d ago
Definitely! I can honestly sympathise with you. I have hated the majority of the last 3 months. Soothing all day every day, bicycle legs, rocking backwards and forwards and velcro. It's been so tough. I was prepared but not like this
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u/Ok_Pumpkin_8531 13d ago edited 13d ago
Forgot add, after two weeks of no dairy, she has slept through the night twice in her bassinet.
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u/MindIcy2242 13d ago
Oh mama, I feel you.
Our stories sound so similar. My baby still isn’t the best sleeper, but it’s much better now that I’ve cut dairy out of my diet. Have you tried adjusting anything in your diet to try and help? Dairy/soy are the top 2 that can cause reflux in babies.
Sending you SO much love🫂
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 11d ago
So many of you have mentioned cutting dairy helping so I'm definitely going to try that! Is your baby managing to lie down for some stretches?
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u/Mcpatz 14d ago
I know this is going to sound insane but it worked WONDERS for my colicky baby. See a baby chiropractor. She was an angel and after 2 weeks of 2x a week appts my daughter was SO MUCH CALMER! It was unreal. I hesitated to go to one after someone recommended it to me but it was amazing. They don’t crack their bones or anything. They work with their nervous system and vestibular.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Really?! Are they quite different from osteopaths? Mine had a few sessions when he was 2 months due to tongue tie and severe tension but didn't go back to them for anything else and never thought about a chiropractor
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u/mgrainzh 14d ago
This sounds really really hard and I’m sorry! In the beginning of your post, I had so much advice to offer but as I continued reading, it sounds like you’re really in a pickle. The only thing I’m here to suggest is vestibular stimulation before bed, which maybe you’ve tried but just didn’t mention. Can you swing in a blanket, or a real swing? Deep pressure massages? Do you have a pool for them to swim/play in? Or what about any high fat foods in last WW? Salt free butter or avocado? This wouldn’t fix everything but maybe give you a better first stretch of sleep before bedtime. Sending love ❤️
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Thank you for your kindness x yes I do rolling side to side in a happy baby pose, he has a nice bath which he enjoys and I try to do a little massage during moisturising after but he never lays still for a proper massage.
I haven't tried a swing, is that just packing him in a blanket and swinging him side to side?
He's not ready for solids yet but will try once he's ready!
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u/Sorry-World3019 14d ago
What schedule are you on? And is your goal to sleep train ?
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
My goal is just go get him some quality sleep, and get some myself. I will sleep train if I need to but want to know if it's actually worked for anyone with a similar baby.
Schedule wise wake at 7am to anchor the day regardless of night events. Then roughly 1.5/2/2/2 and aim for 7pm bedtime.
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u/Sorry-World3019 11d ago
So only 7.5 hours awake? Just want to double check you’re not missing a wake window. If so then schedule is your problem here.
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u/Horror_Economics_189 13d ago
I am SO sorry, momma!! That sounds extremely hard. I can’t really give you advice because I’m a FTM too and we haven’t dealt with that much fussiness. But, I’ve dealt with the sleepless nights his whole 7 months. I don’t get help at night and rarely do I get my mom to watch him so I can nap. I’ve had to run on 0-3/4 hours of sleep this whole time. (Because he just sucks at sleeping, I guess. Trying to lessen daytime naps). Which made me spiral into PPD. So, I’m PRAYING, HARD, that someone eases up for you!! Try to get ahead of the depression before it gets worse! Whatever you think will help. And maybe go to a different GP because kinda strange they won’t medicate for no reason!
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
You are an absolute warrior Momma. I'm sorry you're not having help though because you're doing so much already. Your job is the hardest one there is out there and I hope it gets better for you too! Are there any other relatives who can help you or your partner? That little sleep sounds detrimental! Sending lots of love x
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u/Horror_Economics_189 12d ago
Awwwee! Thank you! You are too! This is the hardest and most beautiful thing I have ever done!! I truly pray it eases up for you too!
I have my grandma who could watch him for a little bit but that option only just opened up because she wouldn’t stop kissing him during RSV season!! 🙃 But, I’ve talked with my family and they just never got help themselves or struggled with PPD. And even though they knew I was struggling they just didn’t know how to handle it. Going to break the generational curse when my babies have babies!! My family doesn’t like to put a lot of effort into changing, unfortunately.
But, all I can do is lead by example and do better!!
I also totally understand not going out and talking to other moms but that’s really hard on your mental health!! Even if it’s annoying (good for them!!) that they have easy babies haha. I have a friend at church that says her babies always slept well but that means something different for everyone. I’m sure lots of parent would say my baby sleeps well. It’s all about perspective! Suffer outside rather than just staying home. If you can! I had my baby in the winter and it was miserable being stuck inside. I think that contributed to the ppd. I’ve had to learn the past couple weeks in going to be exhausted and feel like giving up whether in sitting on the couch feeling sorry for myself or out and about walking, thrifting, going to church, etc. Very slowly that part gets easier.
Have you noticed being outside going for walks or shopping makes him happier? When my son is fussy and driving me up the walls he immediately gets excited when we go outside or shopping!
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 11d ago
Oh bless, I'm glad you've got some help now that RSV season is over! And you're doing an amazing job leading by example but I do also hope some of your family and your partner will be able to empathise and help a little bit. Or even any friends from church! May your strength and positivity never fade x
I was also quite stuck inside after my LOs birth in winter! You're right about going out, and some days I can but most days it's those grueling thoughts of when he's next going to have a meltdown. Did you do anything to switch the negative thoughts off when things got bad?
He's definitely more happy if we go outside but hates the car seat and stroller, and he's quite heavy now so I can't carry him for long in the sling. I take him to our garden or to the window whenever he's unhappy and if he's still unhappy I take it as a sign he needs a nap. Been trying to shorten naps the last 2 days but he just has more frequent meltdowns in the evenings.
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u/Horror_Economics_189 12d ago
You can and will get through it! It is so hard to figure out what works for you and your baby! I’m trying to get my son to sleep better at night, too. I’m trying to shorten his daytime sleep but it’s not really doing much for his nighttime sleep, so far. But, I’m sure it will take him a little bit to adjust. Someone told me that if he is having full wake windows at night then he is sleeping too much during the day. Maybe try shortening naps a little each day?
Also, BF is SO hard and beautiful! I pumped to feed for 5.5 months. Loved being able to do that! I wonder if pumping and weaning off the breast would help? Hard work but if it helps him sleep, that would be awesome! And, you can bring your supply up by pumping if you WANT or add in some formula! Giving him a full belly instead of frequent small feeds might help.
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u/Emotional_Jaguar_157 13d ago
I find white noise very aggressive, switch to something like brown noise if you can. Agree with other comments you need to sleep train, and fully commit to it. Baby will cry, but he will stop and he will learn to sleep on his own. For the bottles, check out gelmix and see if it’s something that might help you.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
I think it's very likely we're going to sleep train because I'm a wreck. I tried white noise, brown noise, pink noise, humming, singing, whispering, talking. Everything. Every odd occasion he will like it but mostly it just triggers him
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u/voodoolady914 13d ago
Sounds very similar to my baby. Basically cried unless latched the first 3 months. Wouldn’t sleep unless held. All naps were contact and he nursed during the nap. If I tried to nap him too soon, screaming. Too late, screaming. He hated being held, rocked, patted, sung to, shushed, etc.
For us, it was allergies. I finally tried formula at 4 months. He shit blood for 3 days after a single ounce. He was an overtired mess bc he couldn’t sleep well due to pain.
I eventually removed dairy, soy, egg, and corn from my diet and sleep improved so much.
My ped dismissed my concerns saying he didn’t think it was a dairy issue when I brought up symptoms at the 2 month visit. Eventually I’d go on to try even the special allergy formula and there was still blood and ped said my son’s case was “severe.”
You can ask the doctor to test a diaper for microscopic blood in their stool. The other big symptom before we saw blood was baby having green mucousy poop and almost every diaper was a diarrhea blowout.
Maybe it’s not allergies for you, but the reflux absolutely could be why baby isn’t sleeping.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
I'm so sorry your pediatrician didn't listen to your concerns. And I'm glad things are better now! The NHS is very limited on resources so they don't really investigate until after 6 months.
We did try gaviscon before but it just made things worse.
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u/Flaky_Software733 13d ago
This sounds so so stressful, I can't even imagine how exhausted you must be. My heart goes out to you. 🫶🏻
You say in your post that you've tried different ways of adding sleep in? Can I ask what your schedule is? How much time awake Vs asleep and what the day/night split is?
I could certainly be wrong but it sounds a bit like the issues around sleep are because baby is resisting it, not because they can't sleep. I'd really consider reducing day sleep and seeing what happens. Overtiredness to the point of not sleeping is SO rare, so push the wake windows. Most advice says 2-3hrs but I think it's worth saying that my 5.5month old's last wake window is 4 hours. It felt crazy when it was suggested but it works so well for her.
Of course my recommendation only comes from a sleep pressure perspective, trust your gut is you think it's something more systemic!
I really hope you can find some resolution and a better GP!!
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Yes we always ended up trying to add sleep because he never had any quality sleep and would always wake with angry red eyebrows and crying and yawning throughout. Then we tried earlier bedtime because we didn't have a routine at all until 3 months and before that he'd be up until 11pm and woke at random times for the morning.
So now I anchor the day at 7am regardless. Then it's roughly 1.5/2/2/2 depending on his sleep cues. He has 3-4 hours daytime sleep and attempted 11-12 hours overnight (depends how long he's awake crying).
I tried pushing wake windows today in a radical attempt. We'll see how tonight goes!
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u/Flaky_Software733 13d ago
Such a good idea to anchor the day!
When we sleep trained everything was based on a non-negotiable schedule. Half the work was giving her the conditions to be truly tired so she genuinely wanted to be asleep and keeping them consistent.
Our girl was also high sleep needs - 14hrs a day - and we started with this schedule...
Wake 0630 / Nap 1 0900-1000 / Nap 2 1230-1400 / Nap 3 1600-1630 / Bed 1930 (WWs = 2.5/2.5/2/3)
Her sleep got much better but still wasn't the sweet spot, so now we follow...
Wake 0630 / Nap 1 0945-1115 / Nap 2 1415-1530 / Bed 1915 (WWs = 3.25/3/4) - which looks crazy but is actually slightly more sleep than the schedule before.
She never slept in a nap for more than 30 minutes unless rocked/fed back to sleep before the schedule. She also never slept through the night before the schedule. Must build that sleep pressure!
Don't despair if sleep isn't fixed overnight tonight. I'd highly recommend tracking sleep 7-10 days and getting his average and then building a schedule around the average that you stick to and then make adjustments.
Really wishing you luck, would love to hear how tonight goes!
ETA - the internet likes to tell us that babies get easily overtired... It's not true. They can handle more awake time than we think. Under tired is far more likely than over here. When they get really really tired? They sleep!
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 11d ago
Thank you! It ended up in more frequent evening meltdowns. With you LO did they have lots of the sleep cues when you were extending the wake windows and did they have the big meltdowns too?
We've had a handful of occasions when he's just cried and cried and cried then fell asleep for 2 min from exhaustion then woke up crying again and wouldn't be able to sleep until he calms down with BF.
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u/Flaky_Software733 11d ago
Just my experience - baby was clearly tired well before we actually let her go to sleep and she was cranky yes, but no meltdowns.
When we did a big schedule overhaul she was unsettled for about 3 nights and then everything started running like clockwork.
I'm sorry OP, it's so hard. You could, as the commenter below suggests, throw this all out and let LO sleep as and when and then try again, when you're ready, to put some kind of order to the day, to at least give yourself a break. Or press on and trial and error before you find the sweet spot which may take time. I guess it's down to what you can handle? I can only share what we've done/what we learnt and hope it helps. Sorry I can't be of more use. 🙏🏻
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u/No_Philosophy5829 13d ago
Yeah this sounds like a hell of lot of sleep you’re trying to get him to have. I think it’s possible he’s just not tired and you are both getting frustrated trying to force it?
I did a bit of this with my first baby, because I bought into a lot of silly online sleep propaganda that made me think it was an emergency if she got overtired. I regret wasting so much time trying to make her sleep at prescribed times, her nighttime sleep was terrible and I think partly it was just because we forced too much daytime sleep. They need sleep pressure from awake time during the day in order to sleep well at night.
With my second, I completely ignored her sleep until she was about 6 months. She conked out wherever and whenever she wanted, I didn’t chase, count or time naps. I didn’t aim for any particular bedtime or stand rocking her in a dark room trying to get her to sleep. She fell asleep whenever she got tired enough, probably for a lot less time than the internet says she should. It was so much more enjoyable and she slept so much better, through the night from age 3 months. I know temperament has a lot to do with it and I’m not diminishing how hard you have it, some babies are really high needs and it’s so hard. But I think you should try just tossing out the schedule for a couple of days and see if it helps. I think the baby sleep industry has a lot to answer for, lots of these sleep gurus really prey on desperate parents and most of it is completely unscientific - like wake windows!
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u/Curious_Radish_332 13d ago
One of our twins was like that around 6 weeks.. he started screaming the second his back touched the mattress. He was colicky, vomit everything, and basically cried anytime we didn’t hold him (red face, sweaty, etc.) I stopped going outside, I felt awful cause I wasn’t giving the other twin as much attention, I slept like 3hrs per day (and even those were broken up). It was awful and I just couldn’t take it anymore.
We tried non dairy formula and me stopping all dairy (he’s combo fed) and it didn’t make a huge difference. We were dismissed by doctors and I ended up taking him to the ER three nights in a row as it just didn’t seem normal to me anymore. On the last night at ER they decided to admit us and do some testing/ultrasound of his abdomen. He ended up in surgery for pyloric stenosis. He was screaming his head off in the hospital bed and they decided to hook him up to monitors and flipped him on his stomach - he then finally slept a full night without crying. We eventually got an owlet, breathable mattress and let him sleep on his stomach (now he’s rolling anyways).
Anyways, all of this to say, I get it and my advice would be to try and push the doctors to see if there’s a medical reason for it (dairy allergy? horrible reflux?).
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
I'm so sorry it took so much to get things looked into! It's awful how difficult it is to express your concern about your baby. I think I definitely need to go back to my GP after everyone's advice and experience so far
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u/Junior_Hospital_3082 13d ago
I had this happen to us EXACTLY! Like I’m not joking. Except my baby is 3.5 months right now. I would so so so try to push harder for finding what’s wrong because although this can be normal for some babies is highly highly unlikely he’s doing this for nothing. Especially the nonstop needing to BF. My baby did this exactly and was going weight so good doctors were so happy and impressed by his weight gain but he was miserable. It ended up being CMPA and reflux. I cut out dairy, soy, and eggs and he got soooo much better. It ended up that he was comfort nursing 24/7 because he was in pain. He then wanted to comfort nurse 24/7 but started screaming insanely at the breast but still wanted to nurse. This was a feeding aversion he developed from being in pain. He also has reflux still and nights are still a challenge but the days are so much happier and i see a light at the end of the tunnel. Babies with reflux often nurse nonstop because the swallowing helps push the acid down but then it actually ends up making the reflux worse nursing so much so it’s a horrible cycle. They don’t even have to be throwing up for it to be reflux my son has silent reflux. This sounds like him to a T. Even if your baby doesn’t have a true allergy like mine dairy is a huge trigger for reflux so cutting that out will help regardless. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
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u/Junior_Hospital_3082 13d ago
I see replies of people saying this is just normal baby with sleep associations and urging you to sleep train. First off, if just like to say I SEE YOU and i believe you that you are doing everything possible to help him. You have done nothing wrong and you haven’t created this problem. I would make sure that all physical bases are covered because if you try to sleep train a baby who is in pain it will be horrendous for the both of you. I’m not saying you can’t ever sleep train but please make sure he is not in pain first. This is not a normal experience and I’m sorry if anybody try’s to tell you it’s normal. You deserved the newborn stage you hoped for and I’m sorry you didn’t get that. Sometimes all we need is to be validated and what you’re going through is harder than most people with kids could ever imagine to experience.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 11d ago
Thank you this is exactly my thoughts sometimes! Mine has silent reflux too, but also overt reflux. I kept being told it's normal and it'll pass but it feels never ending and the baby being miserable is what I feel isn't being heard.
How is your baby sleeping at night with the reflux? Are you guys Co-sleeping too or next to me crib?
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u/Junior_Hospital_3082 9d ago
Ughhh he actually has been waking every 45 min to an hour since the day he was born. He wanted to be held and bounced on the ball constantly to sleep. My husband and i ended up having to take shifts holding him because he wouldn’t even cosleep next to me he had to be cradled on his side. That continued up until this week and now we’re getting a couple hour stretches in bassinet some nights and needing to be held some nights.
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u/MacaroonSharp8881 13d ago
this sounds exactly like my 4.5 month old until i saw a pedestrian for him. i’m from australia so the medication that the ped prescribed him, the GPs wouldn’t. he’s been on it now for 2 weeks and wow it’s like day and night. he has reflux and would vomit every single feedings. and would scream from pain all day and night. and now i feel like i can finally see his cute bubbly personality cause we finally settled what was hurting him. please maybe try harder to get him the medication for his reflux.
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u/Big_Comfortable6951 12d ago
I felt like I wrote this post myself only difference is that my LO will be 7 months next week.
Sending you lots of virtual hugs, high energy vibes & hope that it can get better.
I'm so glad to see so many supportive comments on here & really wished I had them when I was in the trenches as I'm also a HSP so the lack of sleep really messed me up in so many ways that my hormones are creating insomnia multiple times a month which is just amazing when you know that sleep will make it all better.
I will let you know what we did to survive & what's helped just take what you feel will work you.
○ I follow the possums approach of baby fitting into your life & trying to give as much sensory input as possible. I let him sleep in car seat, pram or carrier when he's tired if out. My LO loves facing outwards in the carrier as he's so nosey which makes walks & shopping more enjoyable
○ When I'm too tired ti function we stay at home but I have play areas set up all over the house so when he starts to give off I change place or I just stand at the door or window with him when he needs a full reset.
○ He loves to stay latched while napping at home, currently we are having a little nip nap at I type this. I make sure I'm comfortable & have everything I need while he sleeps. I'm someone who is always doing so I hated this at the start until I read someone's post on here that their baby stopped contact napping & it broke her heart, now I love cause I know I'll miss it when its gone.
○ We have co-slept right from birth, he could be in the deepest sleep & still wake up when you place him in the next to me, we gave up on this as it meant even less sleep for us on his best stretch at night. He slept on my chest with pillows propping me up as much as possible with head tilted back. This position has been researched to help you not go into a deep sleep & ti not breath co2 on your LO.
○ Sleep training is not for every baby especially highly sensitive / high sensory needs babies & those going through tummy pain, its best to work on the pain first then sleep training if that's your choice but what I've found it's slow changes that really help these LOs nervous systems to not go into overdrive. We've transitioned from chest to side cuddles when he go older & now on the mattress by himself where he rolls on his belly & started sleeping longer stretches this mixed with what I've done to help the reflux i feel has improved his sleep dramatically, next step will be to move to his next to me cot.
○ At night i dont feed to sleep anymore to stop this association but I feed when he wakes up at night as its the quickest way for all of us to get back to sleep with least interpretation. My husband walks from room to room until he falls asleep as he's in the upright position which we find is the least amount of crying for us unless he is overtired then we still get a few screams.
○ I tried a bedtime routine, bath, massage book the lot but I found that being silly with laughter & the least amount of effort from our side worked better with sensory pressure & singing so try different techniques as you might be surprised.
○ I've been dismissed so many times by nurses, doctors, midwives, health visitors you name it, I had to go private for his tongue tie which helped with the breastfeeding greatly but still didn't help his pain. I was told not to stop food groups by lactation consultations as food allergies are uncommon & was told by a GP that all babies cry. I've done my best to research & make changes myself but it still wasn't enough & I was only taken seriously when he dropped 2 centiles by a doctor who i requested as the HV told me it was fine cause he was meeting his milestones at his 6 month checkup, It's really shocking how new mums get treated.
○ i stopped all the big reactivate foods & introduced them in one by one while waiting a few days to note any symptoms cause it can be hard to tell if its non IgE allergies, dairy, goats milk formula, soy, wheat & eggs got reactions but also onions & cabbage which are high fermented foods. I dont want to give tge hypoallergenic formula as its full of sugar so I take calcium supplements to not deplete my bones while breastfeeding & have had to learn to be creative though M&S are doing minimal ingredients ranges so i can still have burgers, sausages, crisps & 100% dark chocolate. There is no reflux anymore, getting consistent bowel movements, he's happier & started to sleep better. Its a long process but so worth it.
○ I've got a referral to see specialists & dietitians but I only want their help with adding the foods into hos diet now he's on solids but luckily he loves veggies & meat so I'm just sticking to these until then. Another thing to look out for which caught us is supplements you are taking or even the teething powders can have lactose, read everything, ask questions & notify anywhere you want to eat out your allergies & they can accommodate you, I've a family meal next week & the restaurant is going to prepare a meal specially for my needs which is amazing as I thought I'd have to cancel.
○ i know its hard to be mindful, keep an open mind & heart when its hard, cry if you need to but give yourself compassion when you do & give yourself praise through the hard times but a huge thing that helped me was to not think omg here we go again another dreadful day cause I didn't sleep, these thoughts keep us stuck & even lower than we should feel which is even harder to get through a day when we are already exhausted we dont want to exhust ourselves with heavy thoughts also so focusing on what we can control, turn music on, get a cuppa, enjoy a cuddles with our LO anything that works for you.
I know this was a lot but I hope there are a few golden nuggets in there for you to try but go easy on yourself, you are doing amazing.
Oh I nearly forgot ○ The happy song for car journeys & fussiness this is magic https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=OuG3EyKlwpE
○ Quick meditations for you called Non Sleep Deep Rest to help the body feel rested which gives you energy to get through the day https://nsdrmeditation.healingwildflower.com/
If you want to ask me anything reach out through DM I'd be happy to chat even if i can't help, sometimes its good to have someone who understands.
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u/oatmilklattepleas 11d ago
I’m in the same boat! Just hope you’re know you’re not alone ❤️ hoping it gets better for us soon. Gonna try to sleep train using Ferber method. I’m ready for some sleep but also not ready to hear him cry for me😢 but I need to remind myself that it seems like this is helping teach our babies how to fall asleep on their own, just like how we help teach them to roll and sit- this one is just not as pleasant with the crying!
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u/potbellypons 7d ago
friend, I am almost done with medical school, and to me, it sounds like you need a new GP. sending love and praying for sleep! <3
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u/FunFaithlessness2340 13d ago
My heart is breaking for you- I am so sorry you are going through this. You need a different doctor- your child is miserable and it’s making you miserable and you need help and tools. I am going to controversially suggest something…maybe breast feeding isn’t working. It didn’t work for me and my child- my milk was not working for her, and me being miserable while she was miserable did not work for either of us! ❤️❤️❤️ praying for you.
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u/Spiritual-Arrival443 13d ago
Did she perk up right after switching to formula?
I'll take all suggestions on board. Letting go of BF will take some mulling over for me because we had a very rough start trying to establish it and it wasn't until 2 months in I could comfortably BF. It almost feels like failing again if I stop
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u/FunFaithlessness2340 7d ago
I will be honest…I did feel like I was failing, we did not have an easy time breastfeeding. I’m always sort of envious of the women who seemed to have an easy time with it but I didn’t…and my baby screamed for hours every night. She changed after I quit breast feeding (so did I)….jt wasn’t immediately perfect and who knows what other forces helped us turn this corner but she really suffered until I quit breast feeding and she was 100% formula. You WILL get through this, and whatever you choose- your baby will be healthy and grow beautifully. You’re a wonderful mother- get a supportive doctor and you will get through!
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u/mountain_girl1990 14d ago
It sounds like you need to see another doctor for a second opinion and start medication for reflux asap. This sounds excessive, I’m so sorry!