r/sleeptrain • u/marmaladeonsourdough • 20d ago
6 - 12 months Can you sleep train while keeping 1-2 night feeds?
Essentially I am wondering whether it is possible to sleep train while keeping night feeds. It seems like every sleep consultant and everyone I speaks to advises to wean night feeds so the baby isn’t confused what to expect during night wakings, which I fully understand however I refuse to believe that it isn’t possible to keep feeding at night while getting decent sleep. I don’t believe that everyone who sleep trains weaned off all feeds… can you please share your experiences?
I want to sleep train my 8 month old but definitely keep 1-2 feeds but everyone makes me believe that this isn’t possible.
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 20d ago
Sleep training and night weaning are completely separate and should be treated as such. Sleep training is achieving independent sleep at bed time. Baby goes down wide awake and goes to sleep with no assistance. Unless baby is waking up shortly after that, baby is sleep trained. Sleep trained does NOT mean baby now sleeps through the night.
Feeds throughout the night are still common and totally normal at 8 months of age. If you believe baby is feeding for comfort, then that is a separate issue which can be tackled by assessing schedule first and then looking into night weaning methods.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Very interesting approach. That makes sense! Somehow everyone else seems to be connecting the two.
From what you are describing, my baby is „trained” although I never formally trained. My issues are just that some wakings are too frequent (such as 2 hours after the last feed) and it is absolutely impossible to settle her otherwise. She will cry for over an hour until I give in and feed. It’s absolutely heartbreaking. I cannot continue like this. After feeding she falls asleep independently no problem again. I am very torn but wondering if she is actually hungry because crying for that long indicates to me that this is more than just a settling issue, especially since she can clearly do it, or if I am doing something wrong.
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 20d ago
My first thoughts would be is baby on an age appropriate schedule with adequate awake time and is there a possible feed-to-drowsy sleep assistance association.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
I am fairly certain that my baby is on a very appropriate schedule for her age. Although we are currently transitioning from 3-2 naps which I adjust depending on her wakeup time. She seems to be somewhere in the middle at the moment but seems very adaptable! On an ideal day she wakes up around 7am, first nap is around 9 or 9:30-11am, then 1:30-2:30 and a micronap around 4:45-5pm with bedtime at 8. Sometimes if we are out in the morning she will take a shorter nap while babywearing and then has her long nap in the afternoon. She falls asleep quickly and independently and seems to really enjoy her naps so I find her very easy and adaptable in the daytime! Often I have to wake her from naps to avoid them getting too long. She is very active during the day and crawls and pulls herself up.
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago
What is your full bedtime routine? How much average sleep is she actually doing at night?
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
We have a very consistent bedtime routine of bath, baby led quiet play, short massage, milk, books, song and bed! I think she actually sleeps most of the night if I feed her on demand. I don’t recall any moments where she stays awake except for when I am trying to stretch her wakings…
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago
Move feeding before bath, and make sure no rocking or other soothing during books/song time.
14 hours is on the high end of sleep for this age (average is 12-14 hours). If you genuinely think she's feeding due to hunger then talk to your doctor. You can always experiment and just feed her to sleep for every single wake for a few nights and see if that actually keeps her sleeping for the full 14 hours. If she can't maintain a full 14 hours then you know that's too much sleep for her and you need to add wake time and/or commit to 2 naps.
If you think it's just for comfort, then at the very least I would not feed before 1am (i.e. night wean those feeds). And moving feeding earlier in the bedtime routine should help as well.
I would also highly encourage you to fully commit to 2 naps with minimum 10 hours awake. 3/3/4 would be something like nap 10-11:30, nap 2:30-4. Once you've done this for a few days I would do by-the-clock and treat these are nap opportunities. I.e. if she wakes up early from a nap that's the end of her nap and you put her down at the same time for her next nap. Hopefully that helps increase sleep pressure, or if not then add wake time.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
When I recently just decided to feed whenever she wanted she actually did sleep beautifully until 7 or even 7:30! But daytime really does vary slightly. Sounds like I may have to do 2 naps right away and see how it goes but she really struggles to stay awake for longer in the morning, especially if she wakes a bit earlier than 7.
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago
She's probably a bit tired during the day because her night sleep is fragmented. You will have to push through some crankiness to get her adjusted to a new schedule. Give 3-7 days for baby to adapt to schedule adjustments.
I would also not really on one day as evidence that she can sleep the whole night. You need to try for like a week and see if she can consistently sleep a full 14 hours. If not, then you are expecting too much sleep.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
That’s a good point. We had the same issue at 6 months and then we actually had some success with extending the time between night wakings and things were so nice and consistent around 7 months, I was so happy that we got there, but it seems like it’s time to change things again, their needs change SO quickly it’s hard to keep up with :(
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 20d ago
So she’s on something like 2/2.5/2.5/3 with 3 hours naps. You’re right, this is technically age appropriate, but it doesn’t necessarily mean she isn’t due for more wake time. Especially when she is crying for up to an hour during the night.
Knowing what I know now, I would recommend dropping the 3rd nap permanently and adopting a 2 nap schedule. 3/3.5/4 with naps capped at 2.5 hours total. Put her down at least 30 minutes after final feed, wide awake so she can put herself into a quality sleep. I could almost guarantee this would result in less wakes.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Interesting… I thought of going straight to 2 naps this week but then she had days of waking up at 6 and 6:30 and unable to carry on sleeping (which I think is happening because she last feeds at 2am… when we used to feed at 3 or 4am recently she happily slept till 7 or 7:30). So on those early starts she was absolutely exhausted and crying by 8:30 so on those days we did 3 naps again and it just delayed my plans 😅 it just seems impossible to keep her up longer than 2 and a half hours in the morning currently! But I might have to try again…
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 20d ago
I moved my girl to 2 naps at 6 months and never looked back. Best schedule hands down. You’re probably being completely overwhelmed with advice already on this post so I’ll keep this one short. Reach out if you have any questions!
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Oh wow! From my understanding and sleep experts i trust like Heather Turgeon, it’s more around 9 months that they move to 2 naps and Heather emphasises that parents often decrease naps too soon. There is so much contradictory information everywhere I am quite confused despite considering myself very knowledgeable on sleep and often helping others around me.
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 20d ago
If her advice works for you, then by all means, continue to follow it.
But given that you’re here…. That in itself is an example of the exact misinformation you speak of. All babies are different. There are many, many people on here who have successfully completed sleep training and have babies sleeping 11 hours straight at night who dropped to 2 naps at 5-6 months. I’m one of them.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
I am sorry if I made it sound like I disagreed with you. I don’t! I am just trying to make sense of everything but clearly this is proper detective work 😂 I am definitely very motivated now to move straight to 2 naps so we will just do that cold turkey and see how it goes!
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 15d ago
We adopted a 2 nap routine exactly as you suggested since the day of this post. 3/3.5/4 and she responded well to it. However so far nights aren’t better yet in the slightest… am I expecting a positive change too soon?
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u/just_let_go_ 11 m | Ferber | complete at 4 m 15d ago
Hey, sorry it hasn’t improved. It’s a good sign she took to the new schedule well. That means we’re on the right track.
Where are we at with the other stuff outside of schedule? What does bed time routine look like currently?
Ideally this should be last feed finished at least 30 minutes before butt in crib. Put down wide awake, not drowsy in her own room. No forms of assistance like pacifiers, rocking, feed to drowsy ect.
Regarding your other comment, not sure why you can’t PM me. That’s weird because I’ve had plenty of other people on here reach out.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 15d ago
We have a very consistent bedtime routine of bath, baby led quiet play, short massage, milk, books, song and bed! From what I see the paci might be in the way so this morning I decided it’s likely time to get rid of it and choose a sleep training method. One other thing standing in the way is that we room share and have no other choice until we move places (in about 1-2 months). I don’t think I want to wait though, I am getting too sleep deprived and emotional.
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u/Quiet-Pomegranate93 20d ago
If my baby was awake at night for over an hour (for any reason) then I would take that as a sign to increase her overall wake time during the day.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
I understand your point and I guess I would too! But with us it’s not as simple because she wouldn’t be awake if I just fed her… it’s me who is trying to extend the time between night feedings that seems to be standing in the way.
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago
If baby is sleep trained at bedtime (i.e. feeding and any other assistance ends at least 30 minutes before bedtime) then schedule would be the first thing to look at.
Share your wake windows, bedtime routine, bedtime/wake up time, average nap sleep and average night sleep and we can help!
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 15d ago
I thought I would reach out to you directly to ask something but i am asked to verify my age, very confused 😅 never had this with any other account!
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u/loquaciouspenguin 20d ago
Yes, you definitely can. We did 5/3/3 because we knew our son has gone that long between night feeds before, so he could do it again. It was a great middle ground that allowed us to sleep train and also ensure he wasn’t hungry.
I saw in comments that you’re sharing a room. That will make sleep training harder, because they sense that you’re there. And if you’re nursing, it’ll be that much harder because they can sense the nursing parent is nearby, so food is close but they aren’t getting it. Often times people recommend the non-nursing parent respond to night wakes for that reason. Is it possible to move baby to a different room?
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
That used to be my logic too! She naturally slept for 5-6 hours at the start of the night since about 2 months old so I knew that she can clearly do it now! Unfortunately we can’t move her anywhere because we live in a 1 bed but will be moving soon where she will have her own room. Maybe that will help, fingers crossed! I do often respond myself however when it gets too much my husband takes over which is very helpful, although equally unsuccessful right now.
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u/ExistingFly1724 20d ago
I share a room with my 10mo baby and night wakes have gotten harder as he gets older because he’s been more demanding. He’s been waking up for up to 3 feeds and it’s been challenging cutting out a night feed. Also even doing 1-2 wakes a night has been very hard on me as more times goes on. I feel myself becoming even more exhausted. I’m hoping to get down to one feed soon and hopefully 0 by 1 years old.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 20d ago
I agree, it gets harder as time goes on. I currently wake twice to feed my 7 month old, and he goes down straight away afterwards. This would’ve been a dream when we were suffering through the 4 month sleep regression. But because more time has passed, I’m just accumulatively exhausted and finding it pretty wearing
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago edited 20d ago
Yes, sleep training and night weaning are separate things. A sleep trained baby will still wake up to eat if they are hungry, and sleep training starts at bedtime, not necessarily with feeds.
There are some caveats:
- a feed in the first 5-6 hours can confuse independent sleep, so generally it's best to wean any feeds in that time frame
- for some babies as they get older and more aware they can get confused about when are they "allowed" to wake up and feed. it will become any feeds in e.g. the first 7 hours confuse OR any feed in the entire night. This is likely why you are getting advice to night wean
- talk to your doctor but I heard that most babies shouldn't need any night feeds by 9 months
- you will hear this a lot but schedule is most important, and good sleep pressure can actually cause a baby to drop feeds on their own (if they aren't hungry)
Generally the easiest order to do things is sleep train bedtime -> night wean any feeds in first 5-6 hours -> sleep train naps -> night wean any remaining feeds as desired.
Check out the mod post on night weaning for more info!
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
She used to always sleep for 5-6 hours before first feed until she hit 6 months and that’s what I would like to get back to! But how do I achieve that if she will cry for ages if I don’t feed her? Btw I know at this age they don’t „need” feeding. I want to keep feedings in place to protect my milk supply (which is very important for me and my whole reason for keeping them).
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u/0oOBubbles0oO 4 m | Fuss It Out | Complete 20d ago
As I put in another comment, share your schedule so we can troubleshoot!
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u/IndicationPopular145 20d ago
Yup! We followed the 5-3-3 rule right off the bat, which worked really well for us. After he was fully sleep trained, he started only waking up once around 2-3 am for a feed. That feed started slowly getting later and later until he essentially night-weaned himself right around 8 months
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u/FertilityRaincheck 20d ago
Absolutely! We dropped the paci at the same time as sleep training, and thought it was just too much for our 6.5 month old to have so many changes at once, so we kept his 3 AM MOTN feed. Three weeks later, he puts himself back to sleep every wake up except 3 AM when I hear some loud, mumbling, and go in and feed him. We’re headed off on vacation for two weeks but when we get home, we will work on dropping that last feed! Bub is a chunk.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
How interesting! Love that for you! How long did the whole training process take for you to see success? How did he cry for?
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u/ericauda baby age | method | in-process/complete 20d ago
Sleep training allows baby to drop night feeds naturally as they are probably my only eating to get back to sleep not because they are hungry.
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u/dundas_valley 20d ago
I trained my baby at just short of 5 months. I kept 2 overnight feeds but they were dream feeds. So he didn’t cry, I just went in, fed him and put him back to bed. I aimed for 5/3/3 (which is what’s recommended for babies 4-5 months on the pinned posts on this sub), so fed at 1 am and 4 am. Dropped the 1 am feed at 6 months and just dropped the 4 am feed a month ago at 8 months (because it was getting difficult to put him back down to bed, he was waking up fully and I felt like feeding him was actually more disruptive than helpful).
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 19d ago
Very interesting! I guess I will need to check out the pinned posts, I totally missed those!
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 20d ago
Did you gradually wean each feed, or just drop it cold turkey one night?
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u/dundas_valley 19d ago
Gradually. I reduced the amount per side by 1 min each night until it was 3/4 minutes, then cold turkey.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 18d ago
Did bub still wake and then get upset if no feed was offered? Or did they stop waking
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u/dundas_valley 18d ago
When we dropped the 1 am feed, it was pretty smooth. I don’t think he woke up, he slept right through till the 4 am feed. When we dropped the 4 am, we had a couple of nights where he woke but it didn’t last long. However we were having 7 am wake up time and now it’s more like 6:20-6:30 since we dropped the last feed. Haven’t been able to shake that.
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u/dooroodree 20d ago
We sleep trained and kept an overnight feed until she naturally dropped it a couple of months later (when I added a layer - turns out she wasn’t hungry, just cold).
I had a “no feed before midnight” rule. If she woke before midnight I’d let her fuss for 5ish minutes and then go in and resettle without feeding. It honestly only happened once or twice.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Wow, that sounds like a dream! I try to keep that no feed before midnight rule but when I do she cries all the way until midnight…
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u/mandm0516 20d ago
I sleep trained my son at 5.5 months and kept night feedings. I loosely followed the 5/3/3 rule for feedings and would put him back down awake after. I would otherwise use sleep training technique for any other wakings.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
That’s amazing! I would love a schedule like that but my baby just seemingly never stops crying until I give in…
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u/Levnat_003 20d ago
Yes! What we did was we knew how long baby could go without eating so we would only feed if around that time. Any wake ups earlier would be with whatever ST method you chose to use. 5-3-3 is a common practice or if you know around when your baby typically feeds you can just keep those. For us it’s 1:30am and 4:30/5am so we just know feed at those times and follow other ST method at any other wakes.
EDIT: emphasizing what someone else said below, if you are going to feed go in and feed pretty soon after baby wakes up. What I read in Precious Little Sleep is that if you wait longer than 5-10 minutes that is when baby will get confused.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
This is exactly what we tried! Only thing is we haven’t chosen any specific ST method, although I guess what we are doing is essentially it… we usually help her find her dummy and lay her back down if she’s sitting up. But she also sleeps in our room which may not be helping but we have no other option right now before we move to a bigger place. How long does your baby protest between falling back asleep?
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u/ClearMycologist9906 20d ago
Yes! We did modified Ferber when my son was 7 months old after a really bad illness (that led to him ONLY sleeping when held for a couple weeks 😬) and I exclusively nursed for a full year. He naturally dropped from 3 feeds to 2 as soon as he was sleep trained and then naturally dropped another one about 2 months later but basically our nights were him waking up around 1 and 4 am to nurse and NOT screaming when we put him back to bed, so super wonderful. Just keep the same low stimulation, low interaction (no talking or playing, reduced light and eye contact) that you keep with normal sleep check ins and it works great !
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u/Willing_Swordfish_22 20d ago
I am hoping! Just started sleep training, I'm going with if she doesn't settle when we try and settle her then feed but ensure she goes back down awake and puts herself back to sleep. Literally at the start of our journey but good luck! I've found some of the replies very reassuring!
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Good luck!! Would love to hear an update of how it is going if you wanted to share :)
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u/Willing_Swordfish_22 20d ago
Will do! I'm currently staring at the monitor daring her to last 5 hours so I can feed and see how she goes. After advice on this sub she had her first 4 hour wake window so fingers crossed the feed/wake goes better than last night
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 19d ago
Pls update us with your progress, as your situation is very relevant to mine! Thanks 🙏
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u/Minute_Success5265 20d ago
At 7 months pld they are ready to drop night feeds. If they are waking up, it’s more habitual. We sleep trained our 6.5 months old when she suddenly started waking up 1-2 times at night for comfort feeds (I knew coz she had full feeds during the day). The first day she put herself for sleep she did not wake up at all until the next morning. She has not woken up last 3 weeks. Sleep 12-13 hours straight at 7 months old.
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 20d ago
Wow that’s amazing this worked for you so well. 12-13 hours straight? How does she nap if she does so much nighttime sleep?
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u/Minute_Success5265 20d ago
She takes 2 naps of 1.5 hours each. Some days they are only 45-50 min each. I think she had severe sleep association with me where she would not sleep unless I was holding her and it was becoming incredibly hard for me so my husband mentioned that we should sleep train and he is the one that actually did it because I could not hear her crying at all so first night she cried for 30 minutes and he checked in on her at five minutes. 10 minutes and 15 minutes.
Then on day 4, she only whined for 8 min and put herselfto sleep. Stopped waking uo completely since night 1 though. I woke up around 1 which was her feed time but she was asleep. I kept waking up but she was asleep. DM me if you wanna talk more about it.
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u/The_Chilled_Arvo 20d ago
Curious when you dropped the last night feed?
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u/Minute_Success5265 20d ago
It was the first night of sleep training. I mentioned in my other comment that I kept waking up to check on ber byt she did not. I knew that she did not need that nught feed because she was drinking 28-30 oz of formula during the day. It was just habit/comfort.
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u/Background_Map2659 20d ago
Would love to know about your sleep training journey. How did you start?
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u/Minute_Success5265 20d ago
We started cold turkey randomly one night coz I was exhausted and crying that I was fed up being at the nursery chair and my arms and bsck hurt by holding her. My husband did most of the work. I would just take our dog for a walk and won’t come back until she fell asleep. I think it also taught her how to connect her sleep cycles. Coz as per my research, most babies wake up at night becauee they are switching between their sleep cycles and don’t know how to connect them. Dont know how to fall asleep by themselves. So once she figured out how to do that, she stopped waking up at night. Sleeps for 12-13 hours straight. DM me if you wanna talk morw about it. :)
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u/1tangledknitter 19d ago
I did! Basically just put baby back in her crib after feeds with no rocking. If she woke at not one of her usual "feed times" I.e. it had been only 2 hours and she usually goes longer) we'd send her dad in to do a check (no rocking) and basically do ferber. But if I was confident she was hungry, I'd feed and immediately lay back down in crib awake after she's done. She night weaned herself around 11/12 months (with some encouragement lol)
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u/oystersinmypocket2 18d ago
Why do you want to keep 1-2night feeds? Isn’t the point of sleep training so they can sleep through the night without assistance? Sorry, not trying to be rude but trying to figure out why you think it’s necessary.
They don’t need the night feeds or calories anymore unless the doctor says they do. You’re only causing a dependency issue which will work against you for sleep training.
We weened my son off the bottle at 6 months and he now sleeps 10.5-12 hours straight every night after we did a week of sleep training. For your own sanity, you’ll probably also benefit from sleeping without night feeds
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u/marmaladeonsourdough 18d ago
I am well aware all of this, however I am not ready to wean yet, for me. I breastfeed and I rely on night feeding to keep up my milk supply. That’s my main reason but apart from this I actually genuinely enjoy feeding at night, as long as it doesn’t exceed 1-2 times.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 18d ago
I think it’s fine to sleep train and keep some feeds. The goal is not to STTN then, it’s to help Abby learn how to fall asleep independently and connect cycles. However, I do feel it’s less effective when they aren’t night weaned. We sleep trained at 5 months, but now I can see how night feeds keep him wanting more /encourage wake ups.
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u/oystersinmypocket2 18d ago
Understood. I don’t see how that would work though and think it would be confusing and not productive for the baby in terms of training. Sounds like you’re just wanting to reduce the feedings, not sleep train.
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u/SnooAvocados6932 [MOD] 2.5 & 5.5yo | snoo, sleep hygiene, schedules 15d ago
No. The point of sleep training is for baby to fall sleep without assistance at bedtime. You’re conflating sleep training with night weaning. That’s nice you did both. OP doesn’t want to.
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u/oystersinmypocket2 15d ago
Sure, I just don’t think it’s very effective, especially for a baby that doesn’t actually need the calories. We read Precious Little Sleep and it advocates against that.
Then the baby gets stuck in a cycle of waking up 1-2 times a day, being fed, then going back to sleep which contradicts sleep training.
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u/SnooAvocados6932 [MOD] 2.5 & 5.5yo | snoo, sleep hygiene, schedules 15d ago
I think you mean night,* not day. If it’s a non hunger nightwake then independent sleep at bedtime resolves it, because they have the skills to put themselves back to sleep without intervention. You may need to re-familiarize yourself with the tenants of Precious Little Sleep.
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u/nutrition403 MOD| 5, 3, 1 |Modified Ferber x3| EBF x3 night weaned 8-10 mos 15d ago
Absolutely! All 3 of my kids were bf and st. I went to them at night wakes and tended to their needs and usually that just meant nursing them and they’d fall asleep again and once done feeding I would gently place into bed again.
ST is about falling asleep independently at the beginning of the night. On a good schedule this can mean happily as well.
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u/plushiecactusau 20d ago
I did - my rule originally was to feed at my baby's first wake after midnight, then if it had been at least three hours since her last feed. She then very quickly started sleeping through from before midnight to around 4-5am, so I updated the rule to only feed at her first wake after 4am.
When she's due a feed, I go in and grab her straight away when she starts crying. I want to avoid a situation where she cries for a length of time and then I go in and feed her. I'd rather it be that I either go in or I don't so she knows to self-settle back to sleep the rest of the time.