r/sleeptrain • u/cvrosenTO • Feb 26 '26
4 - 6 months CIO - how many nights does it take?
Our LO is 4 months old, takes 3 naps per day (4 if the midday nap is very short), capping total daytime napping at 3-3.5 hrs per day, and trying our best to keep her up for 2 hour WWs (1st is shorter, 4th is longer). Our sleep records on huckleberry are showing 10.5 h night sleep and 3.5 h day napping on average for the past few weeks (14 h sleep over 24 h). Bedtime routine: nurse / bath / diaper / lotion / PJs / sing+cuddle.
We are over 1 week into CIO: Night 1: 90 min; Night 2: 47 min; Night 3: 38 min; Night 4: 80 min; Night 5: 47 min; Night 6: 7 min; Night 7: 46 min; Night 8: 33 min.
Is this a normal trend? This still feels like a lot of crying :(
Our LO also started crying during the bath part of her night time routine about 4 nights ago (before she was a happy bather). Is she just aware that it's bedtime and resisting it?
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u/brieles Feb 26 '26
I’d guess you need more awake time. If she’s only taking 3 naps with 2 hour WWs, that’s 8 hours awake. She likely needs 10ish hours awake so I’d try for 4 naps with 2 hour wake windows. A 2/2/2/2/2 schedule with no more than 3 hours in naps.
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26
How would you structure the 3 hours of napping across 4 naps? That seems like some very short naps. Aren’t longer naps better/ more restorative for baby?
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u/imnichet [mod] 2y |Snoo/schedules| Complete Feb 26 '26
Your baby is crying so much at bedtime because they haven’t been awake long enough. You are expecting her to sleep 16 or more hours a day which is not appropriate for a 4 month old. I would allow for 3.5 hours of nap sleep though. If you want 3 longer naps you need 2.5 hours wake windows.
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
Our sleep records on huckleberry are showing 10.5 h night sleep and 3.5 h day napping on average for the past few weeks. Isn’t that 10 h awake time?
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u/willgraham1 5 m | Ferber | Complete Feb 26 '26
I think you’re getting confused because the current awake time is not scheduled for but comes from the crying time before bed, so yes your baby is currently getting 10h awake time but not where you want it
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u/imnichet [mod] 2y |Snoo/schedules| Complete Feb 26 '26
That is exactly the problem. If your baby sleeps 14 hours a day why would you want wake windows that only add up to less than 8 hours? Thats setting your baby up to cry for two hours because they want to be awake and you are trying to make them sleep.
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u/brieles Feb 26 '26
To reiterate what everyone else has said, your current schedule does have 10 hours awake but since you only have 8 intentional hours awake, your baby is getting those 2 other hours of awake time in times you don’t want it (crying at bedtime and any other sleep issues you’re having). If you have an age appropriate schedule with 10 intentional hours of awake time, you’ll have less crying and sleep issues because your baby will have gotten enough awake time in the day.
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u/diabolikal__ 23 m | modified CIO | complete Feb 26 '26
If on 3 naps, wake windows should be 2/2.5/2.5/3. If on 4 naps, then they should be 2/2/2/2/2.
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
I was asking the nap length, not WW length
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u/SnooAvocados6932 [MOD] 2.5 & 5.5yo | snoo, sleep hygiene, schedules Feb 26 '26
4 Naps: one hour, one hour, 30 min, 30 mins - 2 hours awake between each. Eleven hour expected night. Start the day 11 hours after bedtime.
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u/FloridaGurlie Feb 26 '26
Now I have to ask, how are you emotionally handling this? I attempted sleep training and my LO cried for 45min, eventually I picked her up and she fell asleep immediately. I was devastated and cried all night and the next day. I KNEW what to expect, and was surprised how much it shook me that I couldn’t even eat the next day how heartbroken I was. I can’t keep rocking her to sleep, my back is killing me, yet, I don’t have the heart to listen to her cries!😔
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
It is absolutely awful to hear her cry!!! How I’m dealing with the crying:
- I know the crying was likely inevitable as part of sleep training —> based on talking to other parent friends IRL, online, and literature
- I know the crying will not hurt her —> I read Dr Marc Weissbluth (the CIO doc)’s book, Precious Little Sleep, and am in the middle of Dr Richard Ferber’s book. Also, seeing how she’s her totally normal smiley self on the day helps!
- I know she is capable of putting herself to sleep —> we tried FIO prior to CIO, and she did put herself to sleep 1 of the 9 nights. So going into CIO, we knew it was a skill she possessed.
- I remind myself that she is learning an important skill (putting herself to sleep), and she will never learn this skill unless we give her space to practice. Although she is frustrated that she’s not falling asleep the old way (my boob in her mouth), she is in a safe crib / fed / clean diaper / comfy temperature = OK. Learning something new is hard!
- I am already seeing huge benefits from sleep training (fewer night wakes, no false starts, goes back to sleep independently with no fussing after night feeds, sleeps longer chunks of consolidated higher quality sleep)
- The negatives of the old way (nurse to sleep, let drift into deep sleep on/beside me, transfer to bassinet) and sleep regression (more false starts, needing increasingly longer beside me to fall asleep, more night wakes - sometimes every 45 minutes) were wearing us all out emotionally & physically. Our LO was becoming more reliant on nurse to sleep and refusing comfort from my husband which used to work ; plus she wasn’t getting long stretches of sleep with us trying to transfer her so often. I was dreading bedtime, sleep deprived, resentful, and in physical pain from being a human pacifier. She was beside me in bed before transfer to bassinet more than in the bassinet in the end - it was untenable and I was at my breaking point.
- We still hate hearing her cry so much (hence making this post). My husband and I try to stay strong for one another. We know this will only work if we’re committed and consistent. We remind each other that we don’t have any other viable alternative (we’re not comfortable with co sleeping).
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u/FloridaGurlie Feb 27 '26
Excellent points, I agree with everything. Thanks for sharing your experience! Hang in there🫂
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u/lovedoesnoharm Feb 27 '26
I would push to lll the wake windows a bit. How many weeks is she? Try adding 15 min onto the wake windows. 2.25 hr especially before bed and try to get 3.5 at least in daytime sleep (I usually see 4 hr at 17 weeks, closer to 3.5 hr at 4.5 mo which is why I asked how many weeks!!
Cut the cuddles. Read a book. (Super short book!) and lay her down. Don’t linger bc it can make it harder for her to separate. You’re doing extinction? What do the nights look like? Is she going down independently for the naps?
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 28 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
She’s 18 weeks. We’ve been doing 3-3.5h of total daytime napping
We were reading a book before, but it amps her up too much. I imagine everyone will say that’s because we got the timing wrong! Open to reintegrating reading a book. The cuddles are short - just holding & hugging her while singing a couple lullaby songs.
Yes we’re doing extinction as our CIO. From reading this sub and books, we thought it’d be the nights days of crying to ST - unfortuantely it hasn’t been as quick as we hoped. I recognize now from all the other comments that that may be due to schedule issues which were on day 3 of trying to remedy now (aiming for 10 h awake)
Naps are not independent. We’re ST night first, as it’s advised that that’s easier than naps. Naps are a mix of contact / stroller / car. Was doing some bassinet naps, but she rejected those after the regression hit. We haven’t tried them since ST to protect her day sleep.
Nights since ST are: night routine (above post) then CIO. Once she is finally asleep, she wakes 0-2 times per night. I feed her then and diaper as necessary. She goes down very easy after the night feeds (huge improvement thanks to ST, as are the fewer NW!)
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u/lovedoesnoharm Mar 02 '26
Okay thank you for that information. I would def try to get to 2.25 hr of awake time before the naps, 2.25-2.5 hr before bed. 3 naps (not sure if you’re still at 4?) 3.5-3.75 hr daytime sleep.
Many babies are super ritualistic. So if you’re holding for naps all day, or napping on the go, for many babies it can cause baby to cry more at bedtime, more wakings, and/or cause progress to stall. I do naps and nights at the same time because it’s consistent for baby and gives her lots of practice before the night! Otherwise, bedtime is the first time she enters the crib, and she’s like what the heck!? Why are you not holding me!? And what is this space you put me in!? You’ll find sleep training goes much faster if you tackle days and nights. There’s been only a few clients over the course of 6 years and over 350 clients that did nights first then naps after 3-5 days. And usually by that point it’s bc we have to… we’re still having issues with bedtime crying.
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u/Pure_Ambassador6857 Feb 26 '26
We just sleep trained our 4 month old and never had more than 20 mins of crying because she was on an age appropriate schedule
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
Yes, please share, I’d love to know what this age appropriate schedule is to get this right
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u/SciurusVulgarisO Feb 26 '26
This 'because' is a bit misleading as a baby can be on an age appropriate schedule and still take longer. You are just lucky that it worked for her.
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u/Mysterious_Hunt_6742 Feb 26 '26
What schedule is your little one on?
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u/Pure_Ambassador6857 Feb 26 '26
I just did a success story post in this sub that you can read
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 Feb 26 '26
Curious - are you talking about 90 mins total crying time across the whole night? Or just at bedtime . Our bub is almost 5 months and so far we’ve only done CIO at bedtime but we are going to starts TCB ABCs for night wakes next week and I’m scared of the night wake crying 🫠
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
Just at bedtime :( She wakes about twice through the night and goes back to sleep with maybe 5-10 mins of fussing. We’re not interested in reducing night feeds now as it’s age appropriate for her to be waking to eat.
Not sure what TCB ABC is
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u/Puzzleheaded_Box_339 Feb 27 '26
Oh sorry it’s Taking Cara Babies - they have a sleep training program for five months onwards called ABCs.
Yeah, I think if you’re getting 90 minutes of crying at bedtime, your baby is under tired? Which means extend the wake windows. I’m no expert though.
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u/AimlessHyperbole Feb 26 '26
3 thoughts:
I see a lot of chatter about wake windows. We’ve also been using huckleberry since baby was 1 month old and at this age, we found the Sweet Spot prediction to be SPOT ON. It took a lot of stress out of trying to guess when to put her down. So if you’ve been tracking her sleep, consider getting premium for the Sweet Spots. You can get a recommended time for 3-nap days and 4-nap days and use that to dial in what wake windows she needs right now.
My baby is highly sensitive to stimulation, so we started pre-bedtime about 45 minutes before we wanted her to be asleep (and it was just diaper, sleep sack, nurse and cuddle). We nursed and cuddled for a long time until she was good and drowsy—nearly fully asleep—and transferred her veeeery carefully. Didn’t worry about putting her down more awake until she got a bit older with more mature sleep cycles. (At 6 months she’s fortunately growing out of the need for such long lead-ups, so we’re not as busy at bedtime now. 😉)
Perhaps your baby needs more super-calm wind down time to help her settle? Maybe bath etc is too stimulating? Crying for that long will really work up her nervous system and once her nervous system is that worked up, it’s veerrry hard for a 4-month-old to settle again.
- If sleep training isn’t working for this many nights in a row, she might simply not be ready. 4 months is technically old enough, but still in the young side. It’s okay to take a break and try again in a week or 2. ❤️
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
Thank you for the compassionate response!! Other than the heartbreaking lead up to sleep, sleep training has helped a ton (1-2 night wakes now, versus 6 before; she goes back to sleep without help after night wakes; we can even see her stir at 45 mins and then link her sleep cycles). I don’t want to go back to nursing to sleep, failed bassinet transfers, false starts, and my nipple as a pacifier - that was bad for the whole family. Nor do we want her crying so much. It’s hard!
I do think she finds bath to be stimulating not relaxing. We’ll give moving her bathtime earlier and more soothing after a try.
We tried moving nurse / feed to the beginning the nighttime routine to stop the nurse to sleep association. It seems like nursing post bath worked for you?
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u/AimlessHyperbole Feb 26 '26
I’m so glad that it’s starting to stick!! Sleep training is sooooooo hard. I just about broke listening to my cry so much. I only made it through because I had an experienced mom friend that I was able to text literally every time. ❤️
Ngl, we hardly ever bathe her. Babies don’t really need that many baths at this age and I don’t enjoy spending the effort that often. 😂 She got 3 baths in her first 3 months of life 😅, and now I aim for once a week.
I do still nurse her right before bed, though not to sleep anymore. Nursing at bedtime works for me in this phase and I enjoy the time with her. She’s definitely old enough that we could move it if I wanted to.
Nowadays I just put her to bed when she’s done nursing instead of rocking her all the way to sleep. She still has plenty of time to go to sleep on her own. (I don’t nurse her to sleep for naps anymore—THAT was starting to kill me a little. 😅 After a few days of transition away from nursing pre-nap, she figured it out and it doesn’t seem to confuse her like I worried it would, nursing before bed and not nursing before nap. 🤷♀️ )
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
Good to know re baths, thanks for sharing. Up to a few days ago, she was liking baths. We thought it could add some regularity to her routine, and hey her used to water before her upcoming swim lessons.
Once we conquer night sleep well sleep train naps. I try to do one stroller and one car so I’m only stuck doing 1-2 contact naps. It really kills my back and nipples otherwise
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u/AimlessHyperbole Feb 26 '26
Just to be clear, while baths aren’t necessary, they’re definitely not bad, especially if she enjoys them. 😂
I feel you on the contact naps. Sadly, my girl has never slept in her stroller and car naps were near impossible, so it was contact naps all the way. 🤪 We were blessed in that she always slept pretty good at night (until recently) and we didn’t have to teach her to settle herself at night. Our sleep training was only for naps. We did Ferber and it took her 5 days to get it… there were definitely some completely skipped naps and I felt horrible about it.
It was worth it though. I didn’t realize until she started napping on her own how depressed the constant contact naps were making me. 😬 I still fret over nap length aaaaall the time, but it’s better than being stuck on contact naps. 😅
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u/cvrosenTO Feb 26 '26
I feel you - contact naps in a dark room (because she’s getting too distracted) in an already dark winter are depressing!
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u/SnooAvocados6932 [MOD] 2.5 & 5.5yo | snoo, sleep hygiene, schedules Feb 26 '26
If your baby has 3 naps with 2 hour wake windows, that’s only 8 hours awake. A 4 months old typically is on 4 naps with 2 hour wake window as they need 10 hours awake or you’re expecting too much sleep. This is why your baby is crying at bedtime. Adjust schedule.