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u/SKRyanrr 14d ago
Tell me you know nothing about LLMs without telling me
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u/solar1333 13d ago
AI doesnt automatically mean LLM
A lot of AI in games are in fact if and else statements
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u/MinosAristos 12d ago
Like it or not, AI as a general term these days is a shorthand for "Generative AI".
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u/Groostav 12d ago
It's not just llms though. Any form of machine learning or reinforcement learning typically turns into these long mathy sequences on large matricies. AI output is often the result of matrix eigenvalues or determinates or some such. LLMs were (initially) really surprisingly simple, preferring simpler expressions on much larger datasets.
And this doesn't begin to describe formal AI systems like SAT and SMT solvers like prolog that are a really intense study of "if-else" statements.
I suppose expert systems could reasonably be described this way but those are before my time and I've been in ai since 2013.
This image makes me mad.
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u/Camaldus 13d ago
Tell me you know nothing about game AI without telling me.
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u/SKRyanrr 13d ago
It never mentioned video games also not all video games are made by yandere dev
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u/Kenkron 13d ago
Dude.. which game? Name it. I have to know.
That AI can't have pathfinding, can't do ray casting, can't do heuristics... Are we talking the Lemmings AI?
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u/D1G1TAL__ 12d ago
> AI can’t have pathfinding
So then are you calling pathfinding AI? Are you saying you can’t make pathfinding with AI? My game’s AI uses a glorified Dijkstra’s algorithm, are you now calling it an AI or still not? If not, why did you use it as an argument?
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u/Kenkron 12d ago
I'm saying that you can't Make a pathfinding AI using only if statements.
So your djikstra AI thing is an AI, but it doesn't match the meme.
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u/D1G1TAL__ 12d ago
I made it using if statements and for loops, does that not count?
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u/Kenkron 11d ago
I think it's more than "bundles of if else statements". You're pushing to an open set, counting the cost of each step, that sort of thing. Also, like you said for loops, though I can see why someone might count that as a kind of if statement.
There was this odd period of time growing up when I used labview, knew how to use if statements, but didn't know how to use data structures. And, believe it or not, I did try to make a path finding algorithm. Every deviation it could make from "go in a straight line to the exit" had to be its own code path, and a different code path for every re-route wasn't feasible, so I just ended up with something that could only pathfind around very simple obstructions. Basically, if "back up and go around" couldn't get the pathfinder unstuck, they were never going to be unstuck.
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u/Enough_Forever_ 13d ago
He's right about AI, just 10 years behind.
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u/flori0794 13d ago edited 12d ago
Even then AI was much more then just gigantic if else monster... Learning classifier systems for example are not if else monsters. Even a Boyer–Moore theorem prover ain't a if else monster... Tho Cyc is pretty infamous for being one... And that is why it failed.
Edit: Tho to some degree it could be said about any non adaptive physical Symbol system like ACR-T or SOAR that those have pretty much the same problem: their ontologirs are human defined. However this is a known fundamental yet to be solved design flaw in the realm of symbolic AI: the knowledge acquisition bottleneck. Aka needing a Human to translate expert knowledge through interviews into Prolog or lisp structures. But what if there could be a way to automate that?
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u/x0wl 12d ago
In 2016 CNNs were the hot shit (VGG16 is 2014, YOLO and ResNet are 2015) and they're matrix multiplication as well.
But even before that, people were doing FFNs, which are also mostly matmul, and before that, people were doing kernel SVM, which is also not if-else.
Even on the generative front, relatively early models like LDA are also not if-else constructions, and neither are GANs and VAEs.
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u/ZEI_GAMES 13d ago
The Neurons in AI actually do kind of behave like if elses based on their weights and some other factors.
But they are not just literal code comprised of if else conditions.
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u/cowlinator 13d ago
They do not, because if/else is binary on/off, and the neuron activation function is a gradient.
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u/USERNAME123_321 13d ago
Actually, the simplest form of a perceptron neuron activation, the Heaviside step function, is essentially a binary if-else statement. The reason we moved away from that if-else structure is for trainability. Because the step function is discontinuous, it has no meaningful derivative, which makes it impossible to use gradient-based optimization like backpropagation.
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u/x0wl 12d ago edited 12d ago
This is not entirely true, e.g. ReLU also has no derivative at 0, and is widely used with backpropagation. In practice, we often just set ReLU'(0) = 0 and carry on.
ReLU-like functions that are actually differentiable everywhere (e.g GELU, SwiGLU etc) became popular only fairly recently (and honestly for reasons other than differentiability, see https://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.08415).
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u/ZEI_GAMES 13d ago
Well that depends on how you see it. This a methaphor we are talking about. In its simplest form both are conditional based outcomes. Be it binary, a gradient, or even multi dimensional.
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u/cowlinator 13d ago
if-else's are all conditionals, but not all conditionals are if-else's
And i can't imagine a gradient activation function being described as "behaves like if-else's" since they have so little in common. Though I suppose that is a matter of opinion.
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u/ZEI_GAMES 13d ago
if-else's are all conditionals, but not all conditionals are if-else's
This is literally my point. What they have in common their conditional based behavior. Not that they have the same capabilities.
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u/Sassaphras 13d ago
Literally false though? Coulda just said "matrix multiplication" or some shit and at least been accurate
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u/dashinyou69 13d ago
nha~... Autocorrect on steroids tired with shock collar ... the best nutshell explains
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u/me_myself_ai 13d ago
It’ll never not bring a tear to my eye to see this joke. I miss the AI winter
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u/GuNNzA69 12d ago
Basically the same as mankind; without IFs and ELSEs, we wouldn’t have survived for millions of years.
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u/recursion_is_love 14d ago
There are some amount of programmer who don't know about Turing machine state transition and how computing works.