r/moderatepolitics • u/NeedAnonymity Left-republican humanist • 6h ago
News Article Trump to Netanyahu in call on Israel striking Lebanon: "You're fucking crazy"
https://www.axios.com/2026/06/01/trump-netanyahu-israel-lebanon-call201
u/Tarmacked Rockefeller 6h ago
I’m just curious where Trump has been this entire conflict, because it’s clear the Bibi has been taking him for a ride since the start.
Hell, Bibi needs this war to not be sentenced for corruption. It’s quite literally the only reason his trial has been dragging for years
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u/dr_sloan 6h ago
I think it’s pretty clear he understands that now. There was reporting a couple months back about how Netanyahu led a delegation to meet with Trump and convinced him that the opening air strikes would cause the Iranians to fall apart and sue for peace. U.S. intelligence was skeptical but Trump chose to trust Netanyahu over them. Whether or not Trump actually chooses to rein Netanyahu will tell us if Trump learned his lesson.
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u/TybrosionMohito 5h ago
Trump choosing to trust a foreign leader over our own intelligence agencies? Say it ain’t so!
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u/dr_sloan 23m ago
Funny enough, at the time the story broke, someone here claimed it was antisemitism to claim Netanyahu was wielding outsized influence over Trump, when there’s a repeated history of Trump trusting foreign leaders over US intelligence.
Edit: lol he even showed in this thread to repeat his claim.
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u/Mors_Acerba 4h ago
U.S. intelligence was skeptical but Trump chose to trust Netanyahu over them. Whether or not Trump actually chooses to rein Netanyahu will tell us if Trump learned his lesson.
He won't. Even if Trump gets pissy at him, Netanyahu will be able to dispatch any number of people, both inside and out the administation to sweet talk Trump and steer him back in his favor and Trump will cozy up to him again in no time. Trump is unable to connect the dots on who's interests lie with whom or who's influenced by whom on the world stage. These connections are too complex for him. Its why people like Putin can get away with anything and Trump constantly flip flops his stance on Russia for example, 'cause he's so easily manipulted by flatterers who's uterior motives he can't understand.
He might be grumpy at Bibi for a bit, then Kushner will get the right people to talk to him and it'll all be fine
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u/downfall67 4h ago
They will bribe or blackmail him you mean
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u/Mors_Acerba 4h ago
The former, maybe, if necessary. Honestly he's so prone to flattery and bribery that i don't think anybody needs to go through the trouble to blackmail him
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u/Remote-Molasses6192 5h ago
The U.S. reigning in Israel? I’m not exactly optimistic about that prospect.
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u/No_Tangerine2720 4h ago
Trump trusting a foreign government over his own intelligence. Where have I heard that before 🤔
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u/supamonkey77 4h ago
The other side of that coin is that the Israeli plan to take out the leadership and go to war with Iran only came about because of Trump's "help is on the way" tweet. At least some analyst seem to think so.
Israel assumed that the US was ready for it, the attack, and just needed a little push.
So Trump tweeted. Israel created the plan, presented it as a great thing to Trump and the rest is what happened
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u/KentuckyFriedChingon Militant Centrist 2h ago
Lol no. If Israel is basing their entire foreign policy on taking Trump's social media posts at face value, then their military leadership and intelligence agency is no where close to as sophisticated as we've been lead to believe. This isn't misinterpreting a text from Becky about what time we're meeting for drinks; this is joint international warfare conducted by two nations who have some of the most advanced (if not the most advanced) intelligence capabilities on planet earth.
Israel absolutely did not mistake Trump's preparedness; they suckered him into a boondoggle just like they intended.
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u/ViennettaLurker 6h ago
Trump must have bought the premise at the beginning. Then as things don't pan out well, you can only be in denial for so long until the reality of the situation presses down on everything.
And at the end of the day, one of the best cons a conman can pull on someone is telling a story the mark very much wants to believe. It seems like Netanyahu sold a great story of explosions and American glory or whatever.
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u/NeedAnonymity Left-republican humanist 6h ago
Netanyahu is increasingly a liability for American right-wing populism. His political survival strategy: escalate, invoke existential threat, pressure Washington, and make American leaders prove loyalty. That can work with establishment hawks. It is more volatile with MAGA because MAGA’s core emotional grammar is domination, humiliation avoidance, and anti-dependency.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
Right wing populists never liked him. He was always the darling of the neocons. The issue right now is that Trump has had his entire circle replaced with neocons, at least except for Vance and Trump and Vance appear to have had something of a minor falling out.
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u/kralrick 5h ago
Trump has had his entire circle replaced with neocons
This isn't something that was done to Trump. Trump choses who to surround himself with.
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u/No_Tangerine2720 4h ago
Isn't his entire circle hand picked yes men loyalist neocons this time around?
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 4h ago
Yes. Which is why his support among the right-leaning independents, who are overwhelmingly right-populist, has cratered as per all polling.
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u/DevOpsOpsDev 5h ago
Rubio is as neocon as they come and reports say he was very against the war afaik.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
I haven't seen those reports, though I'd be interested to see them if you have them conveniently available. What I have seen is his public statements defending it. And as we see with Vance's silence on the war it's absolutely not a requirement to publicly back it. It may not be allowed to openly criticize it, but actual endorsement is optional.
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u/DevOpsOpsDev 4h ago
looks more like he was lukewarm on it rather than firmly against it based on this article. I was recalling this quote which made me think he was against it.
When Mr. Trump joined the meeting, Mr. Ratcliffe briefed him on the assessment. The C.I.A. director used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister’s regime change scenarios: “farcical.” At that point, Mr. Rubio cut in. “In other words, it’s bullshit,” he said.
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u/ghostofwalsh 4h ago
Ehh VP and sec of state are different jobs. VP isn't really expected to be having a major say in foreign policy. But the secretary of state, that's literally his only job.
Sec State is expected to be guiding and driving the foreign policy decisions of the president and he's not really allowed to say "my momma said if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all". When it comes to anything about foreign policy, he should be "this is our plan" or else "I have decided to step down to spend more time with my family".
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u/justafutz 1h ago
I’m so unbelievably tired of seeing the theory that the Jewish state is running Trump (Trump!) and not the multiple Arab states who hate Iran and not Trump’s own mercurial instincts. Unreal.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 6h ago
I'm suspecting that we've got a very similar situation to the Biden admin going on.
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u/blewpah 5h ago
In what way?
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
Trump isn't calling the shots, his advisors are.
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u/NiceBeaver2018 5h ago edited 5h ago
Most of his advisors were against this whole ordeal (with the exception of Hegseth and maybe one other), but were too afraid to speak out in a hardline stance against him according to earlier reporting.
Rubio called Netanyahu’s assessment of what would happen on the ground “bullshit”, and JD had the most to say about his disagreement with it, but they all deferred to Trump who was going on his “instincts” according to that same reporting.
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u/Partytime79 6h ago
I think this is a symptom of our strategic priorities diverging. Netanyahu and Israel want to inflict as much damage as possible to all of their foes while they have a window to do so. A ceasefire doesn’t benefit them. Trump has probably realized by now that he’s bitten off more than he can chew and is looking for a face saving exit while hoping to return to the status quo ante regarding Hormuz. I’d also point out that I think Iran is playing Trump. They’ve had multiple opportunities to come to Hezbollah and Lebanon’s defense over the last few years and have mostly abstained beyond performative attacks. Them listing Lebanon as a reason to stop negotiations is to drive a wedge between the US and Israel and it seems to have worked.
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u/ryegye24 2h ago
Israeli government hardliners want to inflict as much damage as they can while they can. Netanyahu just wants to stay out of jail.
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u/carneylansford 4h ago edited 4h ago
A couple things:
- It's probably pointless to play the "who started it?" game in the middle east, but at the very least, THIS latest round of hostilities between Hezbollah and Israel began when Hezbollah fired on Israel in support of Tehran on March 2.
- A lot of the reporting makes it seem as though Israel is simply bombing Lebanon indiscriminately when often they are responding to attacks by Hezbollah, an actual terrorist group, originating in southern Lebanon. I'm not sure any country in the world would respond differently.
- These attacks are being carried out, of course, with Iran's blessing. They can use it as an excuse to stall things out (as you point out) by ceasing negotiations, with the hope that public opinion brings an end to things (which is their only real hope for a "win") . They do not care about Hezbollah and could also tell them to knock it off at any point if they were really interested in brokering a deal. They have never been interested in a deal.
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u/parallelbarchart 2h ago
other countries would respond differently. We've already been over numerous times how Israel will level an entire building to kill one low-level Hezbollah or Hamas leader and in fact its mentioned in this very article. Meanwhile the US under Obama refused to bomb Osama Bin Laden's house
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u/carneylansford 2h ago
It’s funny that you couldn’t be more wrong. Israel actually takes great pains to reduce civilian casualties as much as possible. That’s hard to do when your terrorist enemy hides among civilians in an obvious attempt to increase civilian casualties. You’re placing the blame on the wrong party.
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u/parallelbarchart 2h ago
I could indeed be more wrong. Israel does take the minimum required efforts per the Geneva Convention to reduce civilian casualties. But looking at the % civilian deaths in Gaza vs. other Western wars against terrorist groups, it is patently obvious that they still do less than other countries and simply have a looser standard on rules of engagement. This has been a point of concern even before the Gaza war.
Israel is not the first nor the last country to fight an enemy that conceals itself among civilians and does not wear uniforms. Yet they have destroyed a far larger % of Gazan civilian infrastructure than the US did in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria, with leading figures in Netanyahu's cabinet openly calling for the removal of all civilians in a blatant violation of Geneva IV.
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u/dr_sloan 17m ago
Yeah I think the IDF’s disregard for civilian casualties became clear when it came out that they have an AI that calculates an acceptable level of civilian casualties compared to the seniority of the person being targeted.
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u/J-Jarl-Jim 1h ago
One of the weirdest things that people grant to the Israeli military is that they must conduct their wars purely through the Air Force and dropping bombs.
Any other country uses ground troops to take and hold territory. If there is a high-value target inside a building, most countries deploy special forces supported by helicopters.
But for some reason, the IDF identifies the exact room where a target lives and no one bats an eye when they level the whole building with an airstrike.
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u/justafutz 1h ago
Looking at Israel’s standards shows the exact opposite actually, and looking at % shows a historically low number as well.
Also weird to point to the minister of finance from a pretty small party who was not in the war cabinet making actual war decisions a “leading figure”, especially when polls show his party is unlikely to even make it into the next legislature during elections scheduled for October at the latest.
Might as well call Thomas Massie a “leading figure” in Trump’s admin.
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u/the_pwnererXx 6h ago
The narrative is that Trump is owned by Israel, so imo this is just propaganda to try to counter the point. There's a reason you are hearing about this publically.
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u/HammerPrice229 6h ago
I’m curious how this information would even get out. Are staffers standing outside the room listening in and then immediately texting their Axios contact?
It feels like something this sensitive would be kept pretty tight, so I’m skeptical of taking the story completely at face value. That’s why I lean toward your point thinking there’s some level of spin involved.
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u/intertubeluber Kinda libertarian Sometimes? 5h ago
Of course. Whenever you read something that should be confidential, there's a reason for it. I believe axios has a source. Who is the source? What's the source's motivation?
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u/HammerPrice229 5h ago
It’s always some “US Official” lol. Reminds me of Veep where you have them leaking stories like the article covers
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u/ChymChymX 5h ago
Couldn't it be an Isreali official source?
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u/HammerPrice229 4h ago
I think the guy who vacuums the Oval Office could technically be an official course.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
The running theory is that it's Vance, or more likely someone working at his behest. Vance opposed the war from day 1 and does have a track record of not actually liking Trump. So this is suspected to be Vance laying the groundwork for his 2028 campaign's pivot away from Trump and quite probably actually throwing Trump under the bus completely.
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u/A_Clockwork_Stalin 4h ago edited 3h ago
He's going to need to eventually push back more publicly for this to work. Every time one of these politicians has tried to go against Trump without pissing off Trump or maga it has been to that politician's detriment.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 4h ago
Oh absolutely. But remember: we're almost 2 years out from the start of the 2028 primary season, he has plenty of time to play with. While the earliest moves for 2028 will be late next year most of them won't be until after New Year 2028.
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u/hamsterkill 33m ago
The only way i could see such a gambit working is if he orchestrated a successful impeachment of Trump. I don't consider that likely.
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u/kralrick 5h ago
I remember a lot of stories about how leaky Trump's administration was during his first term. Not terribly surprising it would be leaky the second time around.
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u/bgarza18 50m ago
I feel that way about every administration, we’re always hearing about things we shouldn’t and are said behind closed doors.
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u/Lefaid Social Dem in Exile. 4h ago
Information like this comes out of this administration all the time. I find it odd you think it is special only when it is about Trump's relationship with Israel's leader.
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u/HammerPrice229 4h ago
My point isn’t about Netanyahu specifically. I’m questioning whether the reporting accurately reflects what was said and how the information is getting out. Plus the idea behind why this story is out.
I’d have the same question if the article involved any foreign leader.
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u/gayfrogs4alexjones 6h ago
Yep, they even used Axios again to put it out.
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u/lostroadrunner22 6h ago
Axios letting themselves be used for this is also a wild part of the story
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u/ChipperHippo Classical Liberal 5h ago
I didn't think much of Axios prior to this conflict (good or bad, fwiw), but I see them as nothing but yellow journalism now.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 6h ago
If only he'd have listened to his VP back before this all started he wouldn't be dealing with the fact that his 2nd term and entire life's legacy is now in ruins. But he didn't so now he reaps his rewards.
Though this could wind up leading to some "interesting" future actions given Trump's known tendency towards vindictiveness. I was figuring the US/Israel "special relationship" was doomed after the 2028 election, but maybe Trump will wind up finishing it off well before then. Which at this point is about the only way for him to even come close to saving his legacy.
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u/pperiesandsolos 3h ago
Literally the only way that Trump could salvage this situation is by saying "We did what Israel wanted us to, and we are now cutting our entanglements with them"
Of course, Lindsey Graham would probably explode.
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u/ModerateCommenter 4h ago
Methinks Trump is scared of seeming weak and the administration “leaked” this conversation that definitely happened where he’s a big tough guy
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u/coloradancowgirl 2h ago
Me thinks this is propaganda. If he actually meant any of it, we’d see more than just words.
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u/gooberfishie 6h ago
Netanyahu's war has a ton of public support in Israel
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u/MajesticLilFruitcake 6h ago
I was going to point out that I’ve seen sources that indicate that Netanyahu has more support among Israelis than Trump has among Americans. It’s entirely anecdotal, though.
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u/gooberfishie 5h ago
A couple months ago it was almost 80%
https://www.timesofisrael.com/78-of-jewish-israelis-support-continuing-iran-war-poll/
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u/MajesticLilFruitcake 5h ago
That article specifically points out the high support among Jewish Israelis while the support is low among Arab Israelis. However, I THINK that Jewish Israelis are a larger portion of the population than Arab Israelis, so that would indicate that there is still a significant (or majority) proportion of Israelis who support the war.
In the US, I don’t think support has been much more than 50% at any point in time.
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u/Suspicious_Mango9316 5h ago
They are! 80% are Jewish and 20% Palestinian. They will never create a country with 50%+ Palestinian because they wouldn’t be able to have a “democratically elected” Jewish ethnostate. Hence their apartheid across the Israel/Palestine region to ensure there are more Jewish Israeli voters despite the region having more Palestinians by number
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u/Euphoric_Inspiration 2h ago
If the the state was majority Arab it would be a 23rd Arab ethno state with Jews once again being third class citizens. Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israel. Hell there is an Arab serving in the Israeli Supreme Court. The situation in the West Bank and Gaza is different. So your claim is false.
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u/Suspicious_Mango9316 2h ago
Actually, my claim isn’t false! Israel does not give full rights to Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. They do not give full rights to Palestinians with the Jerusalem card. They do not give full rights to Palestinians with the West Bank card. And they absolutely do not give full rights to Palestinians in Gaza.
If I’m ignoring the claim that it would be an Arab ethnostate (which I also wouldn’t support), are you claiming that it is okay to have a Jewish ethnostate because there are already Arab ones? As an American citizen, I do not want my tax dollars to go to any government that does not give full rights to their citizens. Right now that includes Israel.
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2h ago
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
And this is why nobody's buying the "it's not Israel, it's just Bibi and his crew" argument anymore. No, it's Israel. The whole country wants this war, they're not helpless bystanders like we've been told.
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u/meister2983 5h ago
Who claimed they are helpless bystanders? At most people claim Hezbollah started it (basically true) or Iran is a strong threat to Israel (also true)
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
A very common defense of Israel as a whole is that Bibi and the aggressive actions the government takes and allows under his leadership are not actually supported by the majority and so the population shouldn't be held responsible for the government's actions. But all polling shows this is complete fiction, as evidenced by the link I was responding to.
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u/meister2983 5h ago
Who claims that?
The whole nation-state law, aggressive expansion of settlements, and of course judicial "reform" is very mixed.
But obviously all the wars are very supported. Why would someone think it isn't?
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u/StrikingYam7724 3h ago
Because they worked backwards from the Western progressive standpoint that having a stronger army means you're not allowed to use it even if someone tries to murder you and instead of re-evaluating that assumption they twist everything else to fit it.
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u/meister2983 5h ago
Those are slightly different things though. It's rare to find Americans who support the Iran War but not Trump (since the Iran War is looking pretty stupid).
On the other hand, plenty of Israelis support their wars since you can view them as rationally making a lot of sense for Israel - even if you dislike Netanyahu for many different possible reasons.
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u/Somenakedguy 5h ago
The war on Iran specifically is very different from Netanyahu’s overall approval
Netanyahu’s approval in Israel generally polls in the low 40s, slightly higher than Trump
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u/gooberfishie 5h ago
Sure because you have some people angry about the economy and others pissed that he's somehow too soft on Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas.
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u/gooberfishie 5h ago
You can see it with independent polls as well. There is way more support for Netanyahu in Israel than Trump in America.
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u/Aesma42 5h ago
We all know Netanyahu sold the war to Trump and Trump follows the last person who talks to him, however I'm sure the plan never included invading Lebanon.
And failure to do regime change.
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u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 5h ago
Regime change didn't fail. It absolutely changed. To one that is much more difficult for us to work with. We did a total own-goal with the regime change we carried out. It'd be hilarious if it was something that happened in a movie or TV show.
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u/NeedAnonymity Left-republican humanist 6h ago
This article presents a sharp rupture inside what is usually treated as an automatically aligned Israel–US relationship. Trump reportedly berated Netanyahu over Israeli escalation in Lebanon, especially the threat to strike Beirut, because it risked derailing US–Iran negotiations and further isolating Israel internationally. Trump is still allowing Israel to respond to Hezbollah, but objecting to Netanyahu’s proportionality, civilian casualties, and strategic timing. Netanyahu publicly tried to project continuity, saying Israel’s position had not changed, while US sources portrayed him as having backed down under pressure. The core implication is that even under a strongly pro-Israel US president, Israeli military freedom of action may become conditional when it conflicts with larger American regional priorities.
Is this mainly a personal Trump–Netanyahu clash, or does it reveal a deeper structural shift where US support for Israel is becoming more transactional and conditional?
If US–Iran negotiations now constrain Israeli action in Lebanon, does that mean Israel’s regional security agenda is no longer automatically treated as identical to America’s?
Is the “special relationship” changing from strategic solidarity into something more like a patron-client relationship, where US support remains massive but Israeli autonomy narrows when it threatens American priorities?
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u/theashernet 4h ago
My theory is that Trump's biggest concern is a blue wave in November (which would effectively turn him into a lame duck and open up impeachment efforts).
This conflict more than anything pushes voters away as it has economic repercussions that your average moderate or independent voter will not forgive the longer it goes on.
If the economy doesn't begin to recover by August he knows his base will be the only ones left loyal, hence the increasing spin and distance from the war in general. Just my thought.