I was looking at Orthodox churches in Italy this week just out of curiosity. I desperately want to visit Italy for my honeymoon later this year (despite the Orthodox saying I was wrong/bad for wanting a wife). Obviously, we won't be going to an Orthodox church, but I had been wondering if the local Italian style of art influenced Orthodox iconography in Italy.

I don't expect the EOs to violate their own rules about icons, but I was hoping to see icons done in a style that reflects the influence of Italian artistry. Italy has given the world so many great artists and they have made such amazing religious artwork.

Unfortunately, Orthodox churches don't care.ost EO churches I looked at online in Rome and Florence had one of the two cookie cutter icon styles. There was no Italian influence at all, just the same stuff you'd see on Legacy Icons. I can hear it now, "tHe OrThOdOx ChUrCh Is AbOvE lOcAl CuLtUrE aNd WoRlDlY aRt. DeAtH 2 tEh WoRlD."

How is Orthodoxy not a cult? Maybe 200 years ago it was healthy, but in 2026 it's a cult where every parish and every parishioner must be exactly the same.

Now to be fair, the architecture of Orthodox churches in Italy is lovely, but they probably acquired buildings that were formerly Catholic. And to be fair, it's probably cheaper to buy the cookie cutter, same-old-same-old icons for the iconostasis. One last bit of fairness. Chiesa di San Nicola in Rome looks like the art is more inspired, plus it's an older parish so some of the icons were painted by Russians living in Italy in the 19th Century. You can read the parish history on the church website but you have to use Google translate.

Undoubtedly from online orthodox personalities targeting young single men right? Color me shocked women aren’t flocking to become catechumens. 32:2 is actually insane though.

I knew it was only a matter of time before this was picked up by this particular sub. Get ready for a detailed exposition from the Holy Fathers about why Catholics are worse than pagans.

Here's the essence of the post, reasoning from statements of the sometime fascist sympathizer Velimirovich and his disciple Popovic:

St. Nikolai Velimirovic calls christian herersy -catholicism and protestantism - worse than paganism.

Words to the Serbian People through the Dungeon Window ~ What is Europe? Heresy. It is heresy. First of all, the papist heresy then the Lutheran heresy... Europe is heresy And any Christian heresy is worse than oaganism

Likewise, St. Justin Popovich says similar. He calls Roman Catholicism a "European Humanism". and this Humanism inevitably descends into atheism:

The Orthodox Church and Ecumenism ~ the anti-evangelical principle was borrowed from papism as a reliaious European humanism by all other trends of European humanism...papist humanism. Humanism inevitably develops into atheism, passes through anarchism, and culminates in nihilism. If someone is a atheist todav, know that if they are consistent, they will be an anarchist tomorrow, and a nihilist the day after.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianOrthodoxy/s/ks8W7xgNnb

Funny turn of events if you ask me lol

I've mentioned already I used to serve at the same church as Hilarion.

Before I got involved with EO, I thought I was the kind of person who wouldn’t fall for anything cult-like. My mother had once unknowingly been involved in a cult, but she left as soon as she realized what it was. EO, on the other hand, has a long history, and being under the Moscow Patriarchate, I assumed it was far removed from groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses or Scientology. I also thought that, as a university student, I was too rational to get drawn into something like that.

But the church I experienced as a Cathecumen felt like an online “based & red pilled TM” church brought into real life. It wasn’t just stereotypical “incels” either. More accurately, many were well-educated people like STEM graduates, medical students who were deeply spending their time, money, and energy into the church and beared guru.

What I learned from my time in EO is that cult can exist anywhere around us, and even educated people can be drawn into them. And once you’re in, it’s not easy to leave.

If you’re considering joining a religion, it’s worth asking yourself whether you’re doing so out of loneliness or a desire for belonging. It’s also true that most religions contain some degree of cultness, and the more exclusive they become, the stronger those dynamics can feel.

So take your time, think carefully, and try to evaluate whether the environment is healthy. And be cautious when forming relationships within a religious community.

“Because the language of the Gospel is not confined to words” ok bro then don’t get offended when people say the liturgy gotta be in English

It’s been quite a few years now, but this is from when I really started deconstructing. It popped up on my Google Photos today and I thought I’d share.

A post that wound up on r/ChristianOrthodocy. It kind of ran longer than I thought that it would.

Wondering if anyone else can relate:

One of the first concepts that began breaking my faith (aka, breaking the spell) was the idea that I needed to be "properly prepared" to receive their magic bread and wine

Yet at the same time, they say it is for healing of body and soul...?

Oh, and if you partake "unworthily" it could lead to damnation or sickness, or yadda yadda

......

Does anyone else see the simple twist they did there?

1: one must prepare with confession, fasting, and overall "piety" to "truly receive the grace of communion"

2: if you don't do this performance of piety, there is a threat that the grace could instead lead to damnation and physical ailments, etc

It's kinda the ultimate placebo: if you want it to "truly" work, you must believe and act as such

....

The best way to keep a customer is to create a problem then sell them your solution, right?

Well let's break that down:

Their narrative says we each individually "choose" to sin against God and "recrucify Christ" with each failing.

Then they tell us that the only way to get on His "merciful side" is to accept this premise and become liturgical robots

All at the mere price of ALL your free time and 10% of your income! (On top of taxes 😭)

----

As a simple experiment:

"Yes or No:

Have you stopped beating your spouse?

Have you stopped crucifying the Lord of Creation with your sins?"

These premises are not only false, but purposely weaponized against people in a misleading way, very similar to the logic traps I proposed above.

----

Does anyone else feel similar to me? Just curious how else people began seeing the real light of truth when they were liturgical robots 🤖😵‍💫

That Fr moses video reminded me of how confusing their "healing model" is.

It's because it's a total sham based on circular reasoning at bad premises

Went to liturgy today at a local small ethnic Greek church. Let me tell you - it’s amazing how utterly non “mystical” the liturgy is when it’s sung by a tone def priest and an abysmal choir. The Divine Liturgys aura is entirely dependent on its execution being done well. In wanted leave early it was so hard on the ear. Anyway - 6 years ago j would have found some reason to find it profound - now without my faith it’s just a cringey cosplay

As the title implies, I have a long-time friend who's cradle Orthodox, and who I got to know even before I converted. Sometimes he likes to just call me before bed just to check up, and it had been a minute since he'd done that. Well, the other night he did so and asked "how Pascha was", to which I just replied "it was good". Later in the conversation he asked directly if I was still Orthodox, and I wasn't going to lie to my friend, so I told him no. He wasn't exactly thrilled, but he didn't freak out or anything either so that's a victory in my book! He's not the type either, he's very understanding, plus his wife is a mutual friend and she's Catholic.

I just wanted to share since when I first left Orthodoxy, I was so mortified about telling anyone that I ended up not saying anything, just ghosting. My former parish eventually found out about my "apostasy", and I don't keep much in touch with them anymore, but I still have friends who are Orthodox that I've worked up the nerve to talk about why I left with them: those people are the sensible ones who simply disagreed respectably. For those of you on here who are frightened at the idea of "coming out" as ex-Orthodox, let this be a sign to you that it's not as bad as it seems and the people who actually love you won't bludgeon you for it.

Greetings all.

It turns out that hypocritical actions by clergy or fellow laypeople have been studied in their role in sparking religious switching, disaffiliation (partial or complete), and deconversion. Long story short, anthropologists and scholars studying the cognitive science of religion (CSR) popularized the term Credibility Enhancing Displays (aka CREDs) for religious costly behaviors that either helps reinforce a child or adult convert's current beliefs or encourages them to join a religion.

CREDs include costly rituals, fasting (or other dietary restrictions), celibacy vows, financial and volunteer commitments, and more extreme examples like hardcore asceticism and martyrdom. Meanwhile, religious hypocrisy (including say, clergy abuse scandals against children and adults, the Moscow Patriarchate's sanctification of Putin's aggression in Ukraine and elsewhere, etc.) often serve as Credibility Undermining Displays (CRUDs, yes, that's the acronym, but arguably it's fitting! 🤣).

Hugh Turpin et al., “CREDs, CRUDs, and Catholic Scandals: Experimentally Examining the Effects of Religious Paragon Behavior on Co-Religionist Belief,” Religion, Brain & Behavior 9, no. 2 (2019): 143–55, https://doi.org/10.1080/2153599X.2018.1439087, https://www.academia.edu/38259353/CREDs_CRUDs_and_Catholic_Scandals_Experimentally_examining_the_effects_of_religious_paragon_behavior_on_co_religionist_belief;

Hugh D. Turpin and Aiyana K. Willard, “Credibility Enhancing Displays, Religious Scandal and the Decline of Irish Catholic Orthodoxy,” Evolutionary Human Sciences 4 (2022): e20, https://doi.org/10.1017/ehs.2022.21, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360848182_Credibility_Enhancing_Displays_religious_scandal_and_the_decline_of_Irish_Catholic_orthodoxy;

Jonathan A. Lanman and Michael D. Buhrmester, “Religious Actions Speak Louder than Words: Exposure to Credibility Enhancing Displays Predicts Theism,” Religion, Brain & Behavior 7, no. 1 (2017): 3–16, https://doi.org/10.1080/2153599X.2015.1117011, https://pureadmin.qub.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/17250565/LanmanBuhrmesterCREDsFinal.pdf;

Jonathan A. Lanman, “The Importance of Religious Displays for Belief Acquisition and Secularization,” Journal of Contemporary Religion 27, no. 1 (2012): 49–65, https://doi.org/10.1080/13537903.2012.642726, https://www.academia.edu/1590808/The_Importance_of_Religious_Displays_for_Belief_Acquisition_and_Secularization;

For more specific research on CRUDs effecting religious switching, crises of faith, or deconversion:

Kinnaman, D., & Lyons, G. (2007). unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity…and Why It Matters, New York: Baker Books; 

Jason Wollschleger and Lindsey Beach, “A Cucumber for a Cow: A Theoretical Exploration of the Causes and Consequences of Religious Hypocrisy,” Rationality and Society 23, no. 2 (2011): 155–74, https://doi.org/10.1177/1043463111404673, https://www.asrec.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Wollschleger-Cucumber-for-a-Cow-ASREC09.pdf;

Bradley R. E. Wright et al., “Explaining Deconversion from Christianity: A Study of Online Narratives,” Journal of Religion & Society 13 (2011): 1–17, https://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/toc/2011.html.

I've posted on here before speaking of how I was done with the coptic church- at least for now. I've rarely had any good experiences in the church and I fought for a very long time to fit in or to merely just be ok in that space but I've been thinking about my time in the monastery lately.

I was never a nun- I want to be clear. But I was sent to monastery a few times to discern- a postulant if you will. There are so many reasons why I decided not to be a nun, but I do have to admit, I think that was the best part of my life. Every issue I had in my church was never an issue in the convent. Often times I find myself shedding tears (a rare thing for me) when I recall my life there.

The nuns were some of the kindest and sincere women I've ever had the pleasure of living and working with. My style, my ethnicity, my awkwardness, my fidgeting or anxiety, my difficult and unconventional past was never a hinderance for them to love me like that church failed to do. I will be using different names, of course to protect the privacy and dignity of the mothers and sisters.

Mother A was always by my side. I stuck out like a sore thumb at convent and everyone knew it. She was the first one who welcomed me. Showed me around. Spoke to me. Always had a smile on her face. Always made sure I was well-fed and warm. She didn't always understand my peculiarities but she never judged me for anything, ever. Never scolded me. When I came to monastery she warned me that the life was difficult in the convent: always being watched, judged, criticized by clergy and guests. And she was right. She always snuck food into my pockets- worried I wasn't eating enough and when never accept anything in return. I remember going through TSA when I went back home and finding baggies of cereal squirreled in my pockets and my bag because 'airport food is too expensive'. She very much embodied the title 'mother'. I've spent many days and nights talking to her about the intricacies of my soul with her arms around me. I can't tell you how many times I've laughed with her while feeding the fish leftover peas from the kitchen.

Mother B gave me the shoes off her own feet when mine broke (the only pair I had) and did not allow me to thank her or give her anything in return. She insisted the shoes were very poor and legitimately walked off only in socked feet. Her shoes served me well and she never asked for them back, but I did leave them on her doorstep when I left. She was like a dear sister to me. It was easy to talk to her about my life and we both shared the same sentiments. I miss her dearly.

Sister C I worked with often. When I departed for the last time she gave me many gifts and said she looked forward to seeing me again and hearing my whole story as we were never able to sit over tea and talk and she wanted to respect my privacy and not intrude on my conversations with the other nuns. I hope I get to see her again and peak with her. I will not pretend that she always understood me, but she always wanted to hear me regardless.

Mother D was a sister when I met her, and I think she always smiled more than mother A. We shared the same saint name, and through our discussions I could always see how much she truly loved and adored God. Genuinely and wholeheartedly. I envy her, but in a positive way. I used to be a lot like her, but unlike me, her light has not been snuffed out and I am very happy for her. She was always excited to me, and she truly felt like my sister. She offered me a handheld cross during my first stay. It was broken, but it had our name on it, so she fixed it and gave it to me. I still have it.

Mother E didn't speak much English, but was one of the most sympathetic women in the monastery. I had a lot of spiritual struggles with spirits and the like, and she listened openly without judgement, and she didn't think I was crazy. She also didn't panic when she bore witness to the matters I spoke of. She never was scared of me or what she saw and experienced, rather it seemed to make her more sympathetic towards me and my unseen struggle, and she did not share my troubles with others.

Mother F I didn't interact with much, but she was almost always on her face in prayer and in her own world. I was scared of her at first- she had a harsh face and rarely spoke. I snuck out of my room at night once when the rain was absolutely pouring, still in my dress and head covering and everything. I thought no one was watching- danced and splashed around, sat and stood. I remember turning to go back to my room and being shocked that she was standing there- some distance away and watching. I thought she would scold me. yell at me. chastise me. She said nothing. But she smiled. A kind, knowing smile. It was a brief interaction but I've never felt more seen. she watched and said nothing as I ran back to my room, wrung out my close and disappeared inside. She seemed amused. She never said anything, and I never got in trouble.

these are just a few of my good memories.

It's incredibly difficult to reconcile that yes, I had a wonderful life there but it was also not for me, and that the church that they're apart of has damaged and hurt me deeply without shame or sympathy. I have such disdain now for the church, but I will always love the nuns and hold my time there close to my heart.