r/emergencymedicine 1d ago

Discussion What is the single best communication pearl you’ve stolen from another physician?

136 Upvotes

120 comments sorted by

683

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago edited 1d ago

“Just because we didn’t find anything emergent today doesn’t mean there isn’t something wrong, but we’ve got a good baseline here for your primary care provider or specialist to expand upon on.”

That right there is responsible for like 90% of my happy discharges with vague definitely somatic symptoms.

198

u/MyPants RN 1d ago

Worked with a beloved PA that had a very similar line and he also gave nearly everyone a prescription, even if it was for an otc medication. People appreciated the "prescription strength" ibuprofen.

230

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago

As a wise attending once told me: “Everyone comes to the ED looking for their cookie. It is your job to figure out what that cookie is and give it to them so they go home.”

61

u/RunBrundleson 1d ago

Everybody gets a little norco as a treat.

20

u/avalonfaith 1d ago

If you give a mouse a cookie....

26

u/JThor15 Physician Assistant 1d ago

An urgent care told me that everyone gets a prize, just try to make it an appropriate one.

20

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago

The irony of an urgent care telling you that. Do they consider prednisone, albuterol, and Z-Paks appropriate prizes?

10

u/JThor15 Physician Assistant 1d ago

They sure did! Populist medicine for sure.

7

u/agent_splat Big Turkey ED Attending 21h ago

They want that ER razzle dazzle! Gotta give them a show, Little Turkey!

5

u/bristol8 19h ago

Keeping the turkey alive. Wonder where sniffing farts and fent went.

59

u/mezotesidees 1d ago

I Rx diclofenac gel like it’s going out of style

19

u/EMskins21 ED Attending 1d ago

High dose naproxen is my jam

56

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago

Naproxen: The Gentleman’s Ibuprofen

29

u/mezotesidees 1d ago

It’s not a bad choice and I love calling it a doctor strength anti inflammatory (ignoring you can just take 2 OTC q12 lol). Probably the safest side effect profile overall. The problem I have is my patients can’t tell me if they’re on blood thinners, how bad their CKD is, if they take a PPI, etc. The 1% ointment gets so little systemic absorption I don’t have to worry about any of those things.

6

u/cateri44 1d ago

It’s great stuff!

6

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago

What’s it taste like?

3

u/knitten2000 10h ago

I think I saw your work at our pharmacy this past weekend. Walked several people out to otc aisles to show them where the voltaren is.

1

u/mezotesidees 1h ago

Nice. Thanks for helping them get the medication. Many folks simply won’t bother if it’s not a “prescription.” Plus some patients tell me insurance has paid for it so I figure why not, probably helps the patient a bit more than saying “just go get OTC.” I do provide them all with a list of all the other OTC meds and tell them to check them out while they’re there to get their Rx.

40

u/Quiet_Ganache_2298 1d ago

Everyone gets a goodie bag! Good patient satisfaction

8

u/diniefofinie 1d ago

My attending would say “everyone gets a parting gift”

1

u/DRhexagon ED Attending 8h ago

Everyone gets wants a ticket (prescription), test (labs), or a treat (ACE wrap, crutches, cane). Follow that rule and you’ll have happy customers

59

u/Goomba__Roomba 1d ago

100% this.

I’ll also add on that my job as an EM physician is to figure out reasons why they don’t need to stay (“we made sure you don’t have any life threatening problems such as…”). It validates the patient’s concerns and they appreciate you acknowledging you’re staying within your lane.

50

u/frostuab 1d ago

This is probably the most underrated skill that can squash the vast majority of complaints.

  1. Summarize the tests and WHY the results are reassuring.

  2. Acknowledge their symptoms and why they were worried.

  3. Explain how the follow up process will work.

  4. Bonus points if you have the ability to start the follow up process from the ED. “I have already messaged XYZ doctor/clinic, and they are going to call you to get your follow up scheduled”.

  5. Give whatever goodie bag is appropriate. Motrin/Robaxin/Zofran combined with a work excuse. These are the two physical manifestations of you “doing something”

  6. If you aren’t e-prescribing, start doing it and watch the impact it has on the patients and the nurses.

  7. Give them the return plan, and make it reasonable and actionable.

29

u/AceAites ED Attending 1d ago

Not just summarize results, but I also tell them what organ systems I checked.

"We checked your electrolytes such as sodium/potassium/calcium, kidney function, liver function, immune blood cells, whether you're anemic or not, your platelets, your lungs, and whether there's damage to your heart or not".

This all can be done with a simple CMP, CBC, Chest X-Ray, EKG +/- Troponin, but it sounds like you did a lot more because if you work from the laboratory side, it IS a lot that was done for the patient.

13

u/YoungSerious ED Attending 1d ago

Always e prescribe. Moves faster for filling so they don't have to drop off and wait, severely decreases risk of them trying to steal your dea number to falsify rxs (have had this attempted on me multiple times) and eliminates "I lost my prescription can I get another".

22

u/FvanSnowchaser 1d ago

I say this but all add “now that the emergency room tests have been done, your PCP may want to do some non-ER type tests.”

This helps with post-ED PCP follow up compliance because it communicates that we did what we could but we didn’t do everything.

23

u/opinionated_cynic Physician Assistant 1d ago

Goes to PMD “went to the ER and they didn’t do anything!”

21

u/This_Doughnut_4162 ED Attending 1d ago

Surprised this is getting so many upvotes because it only works within a narrow band of patient types. You must work in an educated area with well-to-do-well-insured patients with great access to care and the ability to understand the limitations of the ED.

That is not the avatar of a typical ED patients across a majority of US EDs.

26

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 1d ago

It works in the exact subset of patients it is intended for — worried well people. I don’t really have to deploy it for people that have a clear issue that needs follow up or the chronically ill that needed a little tune up or reassurance they weren’t having a CHF exacerbation or heart attack before going home.

3

u/YoungSerious ED Attending 1d ago

Your advice then is to not even bother because you don't think your patients can comprehend it? That seems like a really poor approach that probably isn't yielding helpful results.

3

u/This_Doughnut_4162 ED Attending 1d ago

Not at all, it's a great tactic. But to say that it's responsible for 90% of happy discharges with vague symptoms is way out of line with reality unless you have a very specific patient population.

2

u/agent_splat Big Turkey ED Attending 21h ago

Add on “but definitely try cutting out gluten” so they don’t think it was a complete waste of a visit.

5

u/Praxician94 Little Turkey (Physician Assistant) 19h ago

Oh I like the little “go gluten free” sprinkles on top. Thanks Big Turkey.

5

u/agent_splat Big Turkey ED Attending 18h ago

Any time, Little Turkey.

3

u/Sikers1 17h ago

I'm an RN who does a lot of the DCs on the RN side. I say somehing similar though not quite as succinctly. I feel like this makes the patient feel validated which leads to happier patients and less difficult discharges.

1

u/Illustrious_Loss462 1d ago

This seems to be 99% of the patient refusals in EMS when it comes to chest pain.

129

u/arbitrambler 1d ago edited 1d ago

If the patient presents with a complex history or if the patient is anxious or they are elderly, I sometimes pull up a chair and sit closer to them at eye level while taking the history.

Even though the format or my questions don't change much, it creates the perception of singular attention and empathy. The amount of time you take also doesn't change much.

This is followed by the standard spiel of "my primary job is to rule out potential life/limb threatening scenarios and 60% of the time I'm unlikely to give you a diagnosis."

Overall leads to pleasant interactions and hassle free discharges, mostly!

Edit: one of the busiest Consultants I worked with in gen med would do this with his ward round in the stroke unit. It was impossible to get a hold of him at times due to having additional roles of the head of the medical department and also being on a couple of other committees. But when he did the rounds, it felt like he spent a significant amount of time with patients, even though he didn't!

41

u/vexiss 1d ago

Commit to sit, was the tagline 

38

u/RunBrundleson 1d ago edited 1d ago

Sometimes fast is slow, and pulling up a chair and listening to a patient who is going to tell us a whole lot is going to be quicker than trying to rush them or not give them the attention they are expecting. I spent 30 minutes listening to a woman tell me about her very much non emergent back pain. She didn’t even want narcotics, she just wanted to tell someone about her pain. I was able to discharge her immediately afterwards and she was completely satisfied with her care. Had I tried to rush it or ‘fix’ her problem I would have likely ended up keeping her for hours and probably admit her.

17

u/absolutevandal4 EM Social Worker 1d ago

I feel this way as a social worker. Sometimes just committing to listening to them talk for a little bit is more therapeutic than trying to rush and get to the actual problem

15

u/Every_Cantaloupe_967 1d ago

There’s strong evidence that sitting creates a perception you stayed longer too. 

16

u/paramedTX Paramedic 1d ago

I almost always kneel when talking to my patients ( as long as their floor isn’t nasty.) After 30 years I’m surprised my knees still let me! No one likes someone hovering over them while speaking.

10

u/moleyawn RN 1d ago

ive also found that sitting down and talking to my patients, especially peds, helps a lot with IVs and other scary procedures.

119

u/Acceptable_Reply7958 1d ago

In residency, an attending once told me "build an environment around you where you don't need to yell. If you can run a quiet code where people trust you and listen for your direction, it will be far better for everyone"

76

u/InsomniacAcademic ED Resident 1d ago

At the end of my intern year, we had a cardiac arrest from one of the chemo infusion centers roll in with the rapid response team. Between the ED team and the rapid response team, there were a lot of people on this room and it was loud. My attending piped up, “let’s use noise discipline please” and everyone quieted down. I’m a huge fan of the phrase because even when said loudly, it is less likely to be perceived as aggressive than phrases like “quiet down”.

7

u/kawugiri 20h ago

Sounds like ex military. We used to say that a lot.

3

u/InsomniacAcademic ED Resident 17h ago

He is shockingly not ex-military, but I would not be surprised if he got it from someone else who was current/former military

47

u/Acceptable_Reply7958 1d ago

Also, after every miscarriage I always say "please know there is nothing you did or didn't do that caused this. This happens all the time and I am so sorry it happened."

13

u/Brilliant_Lie3941 1d ago

Love this. I say something similar and I think it's helpful for patients to hear it.

11

u/Acceptable_Reply7958 1d ago

I think if we can provide any comfort during a challenging time, than we are doing our job

8

u/OldBrownDog 1d ago

This is so highly underrated. I am about to graduate, and I hate working resus shifts with a couple of my attendings because they just don't know how to manage a room/code and every sick patient is a disaster. The gawkers that occur at every single code/trauma/etc are also annoying

239

u/PhiledelphiaSidecar 1d ago

“I will come back when you are ready to be more appropriate”

45

u/tokekcowboy ED Resident 1d ago

I put up with a lot. I think we all do. But on the very rare occasion that I do walk out of a room because of a patient attitude, they tend to be better behaved when I try again.

20

u/nytnaltx Physician Assistant 1d ago

Few and far between, but probably about once a year a patient will say something that makes me want to lose my cool completely. This is a good line. I usually say something like “you are being very disrespectful,” and depending on the way they respond to that I will either continue the conversation or walk out.

83

u/joshuabrogers 1d ago

And how is everyone related here?

43

u/adoradear 1d ago

I usually ask “who are the people who are here with you today?” Gives me a few baselines - do they speak English? Are they demented? And (of course) who the people actually are.

15

u/larskristofer ED Attending 1d ago

Yep - same. I ask the patient and it works well to facilitate introductions. I hadn’t realized that I was subconsciously using it as an assessment. Good call!

23

u/larskristofer ED Attending 1d ago

Exactly - never assume. There’s a lot of age gap relationships or various aged children or just good friends caring for one another that we can assume are other things.

15

u/caffeine-hopital "The real doctor will see you shortly" 1d ago

Oh I definitely witnessed the WORST kind of assumption some time ago. I was in a different ED than the one I work in, in the clothes of the patient for the occasion. For context, we’re in southern Europe.
An ambulance arrived, with a white woman on the stretcher, and a younger, black woman following behind the EMTs.
For gods know what reason, the security guard at the entrance thought that asking the EMTs “is the young woman the patient’s [professional] caregiver?” out loud was an acceptable question. The girl answered herself “I’m her daughter”.
I was fucking livid and based on the sighs, all of the people in that waiting room were. What the fuck bro

65

u/larskristofer ED Attending 1d ago

Regarding goals of care - “I always want to make sure we’re doing something for your loved one and never anything to your loved one.”

94

u/stillinbutout 1d ago

The ED is really good at two things: stuff that will kill you fast like strokes, and stuff that is easy like stitches. Everything else will need treatment somewhere else

3

u/BunniWhite 10h ago

"The ed is really good at making sure youre not dead or dying within the next 24-48 hrs. This is why we tell you to come back if things get worse. Right now you dont qualify for admission to the hospital but things change over time so watch out for xyz"

44

u/Adrunkopossem EMT-A 1d ago

" Just because they are screaming does not mean they are insane or on drugs. People do sometimes scream for other reasons" A paramedic to a cop

13

u/BandaidsandBullshit EMT-B 1d ago

Oh yikes 😬 the cops in my area could stand to hear this advice

110

u/sesgo805 1d ago

Former ER and CathLab RN here.

My crew and I were setting up for an angiogram of STEMI patient and doc walks in and steps up to the procedure table to introduce himself. The patient says, “Oh wow, I’ve never had an oriental doctor before”. Doc pauses for a second and calmly says, “An oriental is a rug, I’m Asian, Korean to be exact”.

Me and the boys were in stitches the whole case.😂
Eleven minutes door to ballon.

37

u/Less-Economics-3520 1d ago

The uncomfortable silence when patients are rude or aggressive. I also do it for consultants acting that way.

Let them say their piece and don’t say anything until it becomes awkward and they speak to fill the silence at which point respond “ I was just making sure I gave you all the time you need.” Usually they realize they’re being an asshole and start behaving. The awkward silence is like a reset button.

3

u/chocolateat2am 21h ago

Ooh I need to add this to my repertoire!

69

u/Alaska_Pipeliner Paramedic 1d ago

"You sound just like my mother." Great way to deescalate angry assholes. It does a couple things: makes people laugh ergo breaking tension, the angry party likely had a rough childhood so it creates a bond, and its such a bizarre statement people stop to process what I just said. Btw my mother is a saint and I had a kick ass childhood.

6

u/DunkFunk ED Attending 22h ago

Lol i use this too. It has been met with mixed results, but it does feel great to say. 

78

u/Cybariss Physician Assistant 1d ago

Sit down if possible when doing your history and your discharge discussion. Patients perceive that you spent more time with them.

34

u/DownvoteForGrammar 1d ago

I've been doing this so long that I feel uncomfortable standing over someone to take a history. Commit to the sit was someone's quality improvement project years ago so my department has a glut of rolling chairs. A rare example of a useful QI project.

-36

u/Tony_The_Coach 1d ago

thats such an urban myth

31

u/Danskoesterreich ED Attending 1d ago

In my experience, the stool is one of the most important tools. You get down to their height, and you look less rushed. Patients really appreciate it.

21

u/opinionated_cynic Physician Assistant 1d ago

You’re an urban myth

4

u/AceAites ED Attending 1d ago

There's actually evidence of this and you can ask ED leadership when comparing NIPS scores if they have conducted internal studies on this. The results may surprise you.

-6

u/Tony_The_Coach 1d ago

its all a conspiracy from the satisfaction industrial complex. some dweeb with a clipboard can follow me around and audit my sitting time

4

u/AceAites ED Attending 1d ago

There’s zero reason for that to happen and admin prob saves more money on chairs if this weren’t true.

26

u/Acceptable_Reply7958 1d ago

This might be a big ask, but during every shift, I started compiling a list of the patients I was worried about or something felt incomplete on. The next day, like 10-15 minutes before the shift started, I'd call them and check in on how they were doing. They were virtually ALL really pleasant phone calls and patients were delighted to hear from me. It helped me a lot as a young attending to understand better consequences of my decisions and it helped relieve me a lot about the people I'd discharge that I was second guessing. It also just made me feel a lot more content around my job. I've gotten a fair amount of thank you notes from patients in my career and I really attribute it to these phone calls. 

45

u/Bellybuttonlints ED Attending 1d ago

“I’m not the cops and I’m not your mother. Do you do drugs?”

22

u/DunkFunk ED Attending 1d ago

I tell them that their bloodwork / imaging is 'reassuring' and dont say 'normal' unless there are absolutely 0 abnormalities.   It avoids having to explain mild variations in lab values and chronic imaging findings or anatomic variants. 

19

u/Comprehensive-Ebb565 ED Attending 1d ago

Your evaluation today in the emergency department is focused on testing for things that need immediate attention or a stay in the hospital. This is the first round of evaluation for complaint X, many people need additional rounds of evaluation by clinic doctors in follow to help determine what may be causing your sxs today.

14

u/Chuggerbomb 23h ago

"so what changed that made you come in today rather than last week?" Or "so what was the deciding factor today that tipped you over from managing at home to coming to the ED/calling an ambulance?"

A significant chunk of patients will visibly realise that maybe having knee pain for two weeks then turning up to the ED was a stupid idea.

A smaller, but perhaps more significant,chunk of patients will then tell you about another much more concerning symptom that developed suddenly today despite having not mentioned it until this point.

14

u/Zestyclose-Rip-331 ED Attending 21h ago

I was at a dinner party and was having a conversation with some dentists. The conversation drifted to general dentists doing braces and implants, which are procedures generally done by dental sub specialists (I.e., orthodontics, oral surgery). A general dentist said “I dabble in some orthodontics.” And, the oral surgeon said something along the lines of, “Take my advice here. Don’t dabble in anything. Either, be an expert or refer.”

Since we are in EM and we prepare to do a lot of HALO procedures as well as overlap with a lot of other specialties (e.g., peritonsilar abscess drainage, fracture reduction, cardioversion, etc.), I love that advice. I tell it to my residents all the time. For example, I have heard residents joke that reducing a distal radius fracture is just a simple tug. I disagree with that mindset. We are not orthopedic surgeons, but we are/need to be experts in most closed fracture reductions, given how often we see and treat fractures. Doing our best for patients, means not dabbling in but being an expert in all that we do for/to them.

27

u/Remote-Marketing4418 1d ago

There are things worse than dying.

18

u/Sad_Sash Nurse Practitioner (Rural ED, but at least we have CT) 1d ago

Always sit down when talking to the patient, it demonstrates you’re focused on them and not rushed.

7

u/sunnshyne86 1d ago

“We don’t want to expose you to any unnecessary radiation” - said when pt is upset about XYZ not being ordered. The patient is usually receptive once they think that we are trying to protect them from potential side effects.

16

u/d0ughnut_of_truth Sisyphus :illuminati: 1d ago

"The eyes, Chico, they never lie"

7

u/stillinbutout 1d ago

So say good night to the bad guy…

7

u/CountryDocNM ED Attending 17h ago

For parents of kids w/ head injury that don't meet criteria for head CT, I'll literally pull up PECARN on my phone or laptop and show them the line about "risk exceedingly low, generally lower than the risk of CT-induced malignancies" and if needed explain what "CT-induced malignancies" means. Never had a parent upset I didn't scan their kid's head after that.

4

u/BoardingSinceTuesday 9h ago

May not seem like much, but my attending told me when you ask a patient what brings them in, allow them to speak uninterrupted until they are done. Once they stop talking, you can ask your second question. Makes the patient not feel like you are rushing them.

16

u/keloid Physician Assistant 1d ago

The physical exam is performance art, even if it's not going to change your workup or disposition.

18

u/mufafa-lufafa 1d ago

It has changed my workout and dispo almost everytime I find something positive on a exam. Please don’t have this mentality. An exam is as good as a great history,

18

u/keloid Physician Assistant 1d ago

I probably didn't do a good job explaining this- the lesson was not that the physical exam is not important, it's that how you do it and how you show it makes a huge difference in patient satisfaction. I could PECARN out 90% of pediatric head injuries based on the triage note and observation from the door, but I think an in-depth and showy neuro exam convinces the parents much more than my little calculator that their kid is okay and doesn't need to glow today.

12

u/Over_Resist_9038 1d ago

Also just explain to the parents or patient what you’re doing/looking for is helpful. “I’m checking your strength on both sides and it’s normal, that makes me much less concerned for a stroke”

8

u/mufafa-lufafa 1d ago

Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

11

u/keloid Physician Assistant 1d ago

Hey look, two people having a civil conversation on the internet

3

u/m01L 18h ago

Spoken like a true American doctor, who has never had to work in a system without plentiful resources like the lab and medical imaging. 

Maybe this will read as bias, but I’ll take a thorough physical exam from a Doc who got their training outside the US/Western world over “performance art” from a physician who isn’t confident in their physical assessment skills any day. I firmly believe this is why it took 3 doctor visits in 3 days for a new murmur and AAA to be noted. The third doctor was born in Eastern Europe and trained in India. He actually did an exam and knew what he was looking for and what it might sound/feel like when he found it. 

7

u/ubetchalife 22h ago

I used to be argumentative with people who were drug seeking however, a wise Physician one showed me his way which was to sit down, advise the patient that I am very concerned for their well-being and based off of their prior visits and review of the PMP I’m very concerned that they have a serious addiction problem, and that I have a social worker standing by who can come in and assist them with immediate admission to a treatment facility. After I began using this approach, I noticed that there was no further arguing or bickering about prescriptions and the patient couldn’t get out of there quick enough. they were visibly uncomfortable. completely changed my practice.

3

u/microcorpsman Med Student 22h ago

So does that only clear them out, or have you gotten any to actually participate (or at least say they will) in recovery? 

3

u/m01L 18h ago

You’re a literal god if you have these conversations yourself without calling case mgmt or social work!

2

u/ubetchalife 5h ago

lol, they are very rare now. I typically walk in with a tablet and the PMP pulled up. They are aware that we have this level of access now which has slowed the trend.

10

u/Samson113 1d ago

“Have you heard of Ligma?”

1

u/needdlesout 1d ago

Underrated 

9

u/Playcrackersthesky BSN 1d ago

“Sir, please do not confuse your Google search with my medical education.”

17

u/the_silent_redditor 1d ago

I just hope he doesn’t walk by 2 mins later when I’m googling his symptoms…

2

u/ubetchalife 22h ago

The seekers do not want help, we always give resources but they want to go. Those that come in looking for help get it.

1

u/carydave 14h ago

Multimodal pain control is a godsend. “Here is a whole slew of (non-narcotic) pain meds for you!”

2

u/Lepinaut 14h ago

One of my attendings told me “if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then confound them with nonsense”. Think about it every day.

Informed/mutual decision making only works if they can be reasonably informed. With my crowd, I tend to lean on the latter axis of his tenant.

1

u/Ok-Code-9096 4h ago

I like to make small sketches when trying to explain something to a patient. It often helps the patient to understand why they are having their symptoms and they can also later use the drawing to explain it to their loved ones.

1

u/Difficult_Resource_2 3h ago

An negativ example I heard from an young colleague once explaining the new found aneurism: „listen, I don’t want to scare you, but you could die at any moment“ patient got scared.

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