Dating a widower and feeling so confused

[u/DankDeb]

I’ve been dating a widowed man (he’s 49, I’m 44) for 10 months. For context, we were friends for a little over a year before we began dating, and at that point it was about 3 years out from her death, they’d been together for about 20 years. I asked him out after we’d been spending 1:1 time together and it became obvious there was a spark. He agreed but told me he hadn’t been out with a woman since his wife passed and was nervous. We went into it with no judgments or expectations.

Our first date felt like magic and everything since has been so warm and right- same humor, values, interests, etc. We talk every day, he treats me very well, we’re going on big trips together and our children are even getting close. Truly feels like the real deal. That said, there’s one issue, and it’s starting to feel pretty big for me. I told him I loved him when I knew for sure I did, about 4 months into the relationship, I get that may seem early but we were already friends before. When I said it, he gave me a big hug and kiss and he told me he thinks that saying ily might be the last obstacle he has to overcome in the passing of his late wife. He shared that it took him a year to say it to her (kind of hurt me off that there’s a comparison being made), and that “It’s not that I don’t feel that way, it’s just hard for me to say it. I’ve only said it to one person ever, but when I do, it’ll be for real and forever.” It’s been 6 months since then. Although it was painful, I told him at the time that he shouldn’t say it if he feel it isn’t right yet and asked if he minds me saying it, he said something along the lines of feeling deep appreciation for my love and of course didn’t mind me saying it. Even though I feel love every day, I’ve only said it maybe 8-10 times since. I haven’t wanted to overwhelm him, but I’m beginning to feel deep sadness in the absence of its return. It’s making me second guess things and I’m constantly struggling with wondering wtf he’s doing with me if he doesn’t love me, almost maybe like he wanted to skip to the warm fuzzy part of the relationship while I’m left out in the cold, having not ever heard what I do feel from him, but I’m finding the words have a lot of weight. I realize this sounds like a contradiction, but I’ve never been in a relationship that flowed so smoothly and felt so right before, which is why this is such a mindf**k.

I know I’m going to have to talk to him, but I don’t know what the right approach is. Am I being selfish? Am I being a doormat? I truly don’t know and can’t see the forest for the trees. Grateful for any constructive advice!

[u/Whole_Kangaroo_2673]

Actions>>>>>words. If his actions show that he loves you, that is far more valuable than him saying the words.

Give it time.

[u/Smarterthaniwas → u/Whole_Kangaroo_2673]

This. Don't get bogged down in an expectation that seems wholly unnecessary. You're in a great relationship. Don't ruin it on some emotional technicality.

[u/Dioptre_8]

"I love you" means different things to different people, which leads to lots of angst. He's told you clearly that to him, it represents a permanent commitment. And his history shows that for him, a permanent commitment is pretty permanent. 10 months into a relationship isn't a long time to wait to make that sort of commitment.

You haven't said a lot about your own history, so I don't want to make assumptions. But have you ever said "I love you" to someone and it _hasn't_ ended up in a 10+ year relationship? If so, you just place different weight on the words. It's nothing to do with what he feels or doesn't feel.

[u/AphelionEntity]

41f from a family who did not say "I love you" to anyone when I was growing up. Unsurprisingly, I'm slow to say it as an adult.

If it helps, I don't think the comment about his wife was meant primarily as a comparison, though it was. It was him trying to give context to you. Like "you see how I loved her because you see how her death fucked me up. and I did not have the same baggage then. Still took me a year." If I said something like that, it would be me trying to tell you this isn't an issue with you because I didn't want you blaming yourself.

You told him not to say it until he's ready and that's what he's doing. His alternative here is probably worse (and it's something I have done): say it before he's ready to in order to nip conflict and protect your feelings. It feels like a white lie when I've done it.

If you don't want that from him, I think a real question is what do you want him to do that he can do? If there's nothing, the next question is: does this bother you enough to leave?

[u/Calamity_C]

It took him a year the last time and then he was married for 20 years and it ended tragically. You're at 10 months and he's let you know it's something he struggles with. I'd hang in there for at least another two to three months. Things sound pretty awesome otherwise.

[u/Mysterious_Elk_8972]

Why would you want to talk to him again about it? He told you he's not ready to say it back. You keep saying it to him and wanting to talk about it is pressuring him into saying something he's not ready to say. This may not work out the way you want.

[u/DOFthrowallthewayawy]

He shared that it took him a year to say it to her (kind of hurt me off that there’s a comparison being made)

FFS. That wasn't a comparison between you and her. He shared that this is a big phrase for him. Or as the person he's dating might put it, "the words have a lot of weight."

If YOU want to say it, it needs to be because you feel it and not because you're saying it as a diagnostic or trying to get the sonar to ping back at you: "I’m beginning to feel deep sadness in the absence of its return."

If you're on different timelines with this and you aren't meeting each other's needs, it's basic incompatibility.

If he isn't ready to say it, he shouldn't say it.
You have no right to have it said.
He has no right to a relationship with you.
If you don't like the emotional toll of not hearing it, that's valid and you should end it.

[u/Apryllemarie]

So he told you that “it’s not like I don’t feel that way, it’s just hard for me to say it.” And he shared how long it has taken him in the past to say it. So you know exactly what you are dealing with. He does have these feelings but finds it hard to say it. It hasn’t been a year yet.

He is not making this a competition, you are. You said to him that you didn’t think that he should say it till he’s ready. And he’s said that he doesn’t mind you saying it. But you censor yourself anyway because you imagine it makes him feel pressure. But that isn’t what he said. You created this imagined pressure and are making up stories about how he must feel that go contrary to what he has said to you and apparently how he acts. If you need to hear those three words so much that you are willing to throw away the relationship because of it, you should have told him that from the get go. He thinks he has the space to get to that place on his own which will likely be in a few months.

So if you are going to have another talk with him before it’s been a year then recognize that you are changing the goal posts and admit that you weren’t honest with him from the beginning about how much this meant to you. Otherwise, I think you need to challenge yourself to stop making up stories in your head that don’t have evidence to match it. And if words of affirmation are needed, then does he use any other words besides “ily” that are also affirmative in his feelings for you? If not, then he must not be a words of affirmation person and you would need more communication about that. And be willing to expand what words qualify as such. That way you aren’t harping on the ily and are addressing the bigger issue of needing more words of affection.

[u/ShakeItUpNowSugaree]

I'm widowed. It's hard to understand the internal conflict if you haven't been there. One guy got upset because I still call his parents my MIL/FIL. I don't know what else to call them? While my personal feelings are that I promised until death do us part and I fulfilled that, my best friend still feels guilty for going out on dates.

The best advice I could give would be try to be empathetic and please understand that you aren't competing with her. It is possible to love more than one person. But, at the same time, if you feel like you're living in the shadow of a ghost, it's totally okay to say that "this isn't working for me."

[u/Mum-of-4]

Take note of his actions. Some people struggle to say they love you, but show you in what they do for you.
My partner took 9 months, after I said it at 5 months. But I knew when he said it that he meant it.
Your partner may take longer than you’d like but when he does say it, you know he truly means it. Does he show you he loves you?

[u/Tall-Ad9334]

Him telling you it took him a year to say it to his departed wife was not a comparison. It was him telling you that even before he got terribly hurt in love, it was hard for him to say.

It took my boyfriend *a year and a half* to say it.

At first I was patient and understanding. Then I was hurt, angry and sad. The real mindfuck for me was if you asked me in that time, I would tell you I did not doubt he loved me. I really did not. But logically knowing it and actually hearing it are not the same. I struggled with it daily.

I would even search the Internet for stories about how long it took people to say “I love you” in a desperate quest for reassurance. (Spoiler: there’s not a ton out there and most people say if he doesn’t say it soon he doesn’t feel it.)

As much as it hurt, I held on. That was my choice and another person may not choose the same path. Neither is wrong.

I knew about my boyfriend’s past (lots of hurt in relationships (not just romantic) as well as PTSD and anxiety) and I did feel it would come.

I remember asking him one time if he ever thought he could tell me he loved me and he said, “Yeah. I am sure I will get there.”

He did. It was a slow and painful (for me) process.

The first time he said it in an adjacent way. “You know I love you when…”

The second time, he was drunk, “Love you, Buddy!” which was a little joke between us.

Then it was that when I texted it (I had tried saying it out loud a few times, but found it was really hard for me not to get a response so I resorted to just sometimes texting it, which was also still hard) he would give it a heart reaction. That felt like a gut punch at first.

Then I would sometimes get a heart emoji.

Then “❤️ you”.

Then “I ❤️ you”.

Then “Love you.”

Then “I love you.”

It was excruciating and at a point almost became comical to watch how determined he was to say it without saying it, like when he went to “❤️ you.”

People have to arrive in their own time. You can’t force someone to be comfortable saying it. If they do start saying it after you’ve asked then you’ll just doubt if they mean it. If you let them get there on your own, you don’t doubt their intention.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. It sounds like you’ve got a good relationship. Where you go from here is your call to make.

[u/DefiantViolette]

I personally would not be compatible with a man who sees saying "I love you" as an obstacle he has to overcome. I'm not saying his feelings aren't valid, I'm sure as a widower it's complicated, but it just would not work for me. I'm not sure what advice to offer, since he already told you he will say it when it is "real and forever." You would basically be asking him "So is it real and forever yet?" and the answer to that is probably "no" at this point, or he would have said it already, assuming that he was being honest and he "doesn't not feel that way."

[u/Hedgehogosaur]

That word holds a lot of power, especially in grief. But, I think it's been enough time for another gentle conversation (6 months since last time?). 

I also lost my wife 3 years ago, and for a long time didn't think I would be able to love again, but I'm starting to fall for a friend in what sounds like a similar situation to you and your partner.  It's so personal to ones own grief and ongoing relationship with the one we lost that my own experience won't be the same.  However for context, I think I was able to start opening to someone else once I'd learnt how to feel love for my late wife again. That wasn't available to me at first as our relationship was difficult at the time of her death (she had a severe mental health relapse, refused support, left me and the kids, and just when things served to be improving died by suicide), but once my grief had moved on from trauma recovery and I was able to reminisce positivity, draw on the feeling of our love again, it somehow made room for more.  I think some people might struggle with the idea of loving someone new being a betrayal of their late partner, or that you somehow need to let them go. When I start a new relationship, I will make it clear that in order to be ok in my grief, I have to still love my late wife and that won't change, but that love isn't finite - I can also love a new partner. It's like having more than one child, you don't love the first one half as much as the second.

[u/JaYintouch]

Shouldn't his actions matter more... than what he says ... or what you expect him to say in return ??

I dont think anyone will be able to understand the dilemma you find yourself in, neither will any advise fully justify itself...

But here's my 2 cents ... Grasping from what you've shared, you must enjoy the moments of Love & Warmth ... if you see a dip even by a shred in what you are receiving then have the talk... Its not everyday that we get to read anyone sharing of a man being capable of giving genuine love & warmth without a maligned intent...

Hopefully you will get everything you have wanted from this relationship... until then enjoy yourself !!

May you be Blessed with Lots & Lots of Love and Good Health ❤️

[u/Convenient-Enemy-511 → u/JaYintouch]

Shouldn't his actions matter more... than what he says ...

Keep in mind that just as there's a lot of people asking this, in threads about a situationship, people get called naive for saying that they fell for someone doing actions that said there was love and feelings, all while saying things were light and breezy, day by day.

Words matter too.

[u/Outlandishness_Know → u/Convenient-Enemy-511]

And if your love language is words of affirmation, this will always bother you at a deeper level. I dated a man who would never say it. His actions showed he cared and loved me, but he never said it. I asked him once if he did, he said he didn't. While making love once he said it. Later he said it was just an in the moment thing. He had a personal constitution to never get married, never use titles, never progress a relatio ahip (to spite an overbearing mother) but always desires companionship.

And we're still friends to this day. He is my biggest support. I rely on him in ways I can't on others. He loves me. He shows it. But I cut off all romantic/sexual/couple like behavior because I am the type of person who needs to hear "I love you. I value you. I adore you." Communicating depth of feeling matters to me and keeps me out of thr type of twilight zone confuaion OP is currently experiencing.

Actions over words works for some people, but not all.

[u/Convenient-Enemy-511 → u/Outlandishness_Know]

And if your love language is words of affirmation, this will always bother you at a deeper level.

I will never again consider dating / being in a relationship with someone who isn't a cuddler. Compatibility is important.

I'm sorry that "more" wasn't possible with your friend; but I'm glad for you that you were able to see that.

[u/Outlandishness_Know → u/Convenient-Enemy-511]

I'm very much the same. I need hand holding, cuddling, spoken words of affection affection. I need to both see and hear I am cared for, otherwise I get this weird feeling of someone holding back or hiding feelings for me, which doesnt make me feel good inside. I get it's not what everyone does, so compatibility matters.

The guy currently let's me live in his home due to underemployment. He's unemployed himself. So, all this grocery shopping together and cooking together and domesticity has me looking at him again and I keep reminding myself "NOPE. Look away from the handsomeness!" He will never give me what I need. But when I need him for support in life, he's there, so I appreciate our now platonic friendship.

[u/JaYintouch → u/Convenient-Enemy-511]

Not debating that words matter too...

And when a "Man" is in question then he better bring the world, moon and stars too...

My opinion stands with the Love & Warmth available ... which is what many a relationship urge for...

So take all that you can get without ignoring any womanly instincts that point at a different direction... ❤️

[u/Neonlla]

I feel for his loss, but your partner should not be the source of your anxiety because, in your case, he is. I’m sorry you’re feeling this way and that I don’t have advice for you.

[u/Shot_Pin_3891]

I can relate to this. I was with a guy who told me he loved me constantly after a couple of months but I’d previously been married for 20 years. I said it back because he needed me too and he clearly saw love as an emotion which I shared. I can say I love my ex husband though even though I don’t want to spend more than 5 mins in his company and I’m incredibly glad I left him. He is the father of my children and was my family for my whole adult life. I’d be there for him through gritted teeth if he needed me.

Then I got with current bf and he jokes (are you falling in love with me?). I say “you’re ok”. I don’t want to profess love when he himself isn’t ready to say it. For me love feels like duty, obligation, being there through thick and thin. Mortgages, investments, deep economical trust in the union. It’s not particularly enjoyable. It’s the sort of thing you feel for your kids when they are driving you crazy not when they are being perfect.

Love is not a nice Romantic feeling for me. It’s Game of Thrones Catlin Stark. Maybe this guy is similar? Maybe you are thinking about it two very different ways and this isn’t about him feeling less invested or romantic towards you. Maybe he’s having trouble comparing the emotions he has for you to his wife. Maybe you are happy with what he feels for you, you just have different words.

Interestingly Arabic has 5 words for love I think for this very reason

[u/Miss_ChanandelerBong]

Him telling you that it took him a year with his wife was not a comparison, it was context. It was insight into how he works.

He sounds like he's a bit more like stone in the sun- slower to warm up, but when he gets there, it's steady and for good. That doesn't mean he doesn't deeply care about you right now, though. If his actions show love, accept that. I would talk to him about it, though. Not "why don't you love me??" But more like, hey I'm having some insecurity about this. I know we're just different and I don't want to put pressure on you. Can we figure out a way to ease my anxiety without adding pressure to you to say something you're not ready to say?

Maybe he can use a different phrase. Maybe it can turn into a joke "and I love spending time with you!" Maybe just a good chat will help you see how much he does care for you, and feel it in his actions.

[u/ugglygirl]

Don’t know if this helps but I’m widowed with bf 6 years and still struggle with the I love you’s. Feels awkward. Makes no sense but lots of things don’t make sense as widow.

Also the comparisons aren’t about you really they are a function of your bf checking in with himself that he can feel secure or confident in his own judgement. Hard to explain but try not to assume it’s a literal comparison. It’s not.
Good luck. Stay the course.

Tap into the love you are feeling and seize the day. Words are so much less than the love you’re actually feeling.

[u/SsshLetMeSpeak]

Personally my love language is acts of service, I wouldn’t take it into heart if mine doesn’t return I love you, I respect his timing and readiness because I’m attracted to actions over words and he has shown them to me consistently.

You both are aligned in so many ways, try not to overthink this or allow it to dampen a healthy compatible bond you both established.

[u/LopsidedTelephone574]

I am very surprised by many comments here. This man clearly needs therapy over grief and loss and that is not your problem. So many widowers never do that,never adress and process yet jump into bed/relationships as nothing happened.And then a new partner left to unapack and navigate and tiptoe and compete with idealized ghost. Your needs are clearly not met and he is not available.

[u/ChkYrHead → u/LopsidedTelephone574]

I don't think this has anything to do with his late wife.

[u/Littlelindsey]

You are minimising your needs in order maximise his. He hasn’t said he loves you and told you why. He’s most likely still grieving for his wife.

Despite it not being reciprocated you have told him you love him another 8-10 times? What did you think would happen?

The problem here is you not getting your needs met and then making excuses and coming up with ways to rationalise & explain why it’s ok that he’s not meeting your needs. In answer to your question no you are not being selfish, you are being a doormat.

Whilst it is very sad his wife passed away, it’s not your fault or your problem. You still deserve to have a partner who is present, makes you feel seen & heard & yes tells you that they love you and means it. If you’re not getting that then it’s time for a rethink.

[u/Soft-Caterpillar-618 → u/Littlelindsey]

Fully agree. Your needs matter too, OP.

[u/mxcrnt2 → u/Littlelindsey]

Everything you want, or even everything that makes you feel comfortable, isn’t necessarily a need.

[u/BubblyDiscussion52 → u/Littlelindsey]

I agree with you.

[u/AutoModerator]

Original copy of post by u/DankDeb:

I’ve been dating a widowed man (he’s 49, I’m 44) for 10 months. For context, we were friends for a little over a year before we began dating, and at that point it was about 3 years out from her death, they’d been together for about 20 years. I asked him out after we’d been spending 1:1 time together and it became obvious there was a spark. He agreed but told me he hadn’t been out with a woman since his wife passed and was nervous. We went into it with no judgments or expectations.

Our first date felt like magic and everything since has been so warm and right- same humor, values, interests, etc. We talk every day, he treats me very well, we’re going on big trips together and our children are even getting close. Truly feels like the real deal. That said, there’s one issue, and it’s starting to feel pretty big for me. I told him I loved him when I knew for sure I did, about 4 months into the relationship, I get that may seem early but we were already friends before. When I said it, he gave me a big hug and kiss and he told me he thinks that saying ily might be the last obstacle he has to overcome in the passing of his late wife. He shared that it took him a year to say it to her (kind of hurt me off that there’s a comparison being made), and that “It’s not that I don’t feel that way, it’s just hard for me to say it. I’ve only said it to one person ever, but when I do, it’ll be for real and forever.” It’s been 6 months since then. Although it was painful, I told him at the time that he shouldn’t say it if he feel it isn’t right yet and asked if he minds me saying it, he said something along the lines of feeling deep appreciation for my love and of course didn’t mind me saying it. Even though I feel love every day, I’ve only said it maybe 8-10 times since. I haven’t wanted to overwhelm him, but I’m beginning to feel deep sadness in the absence of its return. It’s making me second guess things and I’m constantly struggling with wondering wtf he’s doing with me if he doesn’t love me, almost maybe like he wanted to skip to the warm fuzzy part of the relationship while I’m left out in the cold, having not ever heard what I do feel from him, but I’m finding the words have a lot of weight. I realize this sounds like a contradiction, but I’ve never been in a relationship that flowed so smoothly and felt so right before, which is why this is such a mindf**k.

I know I’m going to have to talk to him, but I don’t know what the right approach is. Am I being selfish? Am I being a doormat? I truly don’t know and can’t see the forest for the trees. Grateful for any constructive advice!

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[u/RadiantParadox1472]

Ask him where he sees you in his life. Say you appreciate how he is with you and respect all that he has going on, and appreciate clarity to plan your life. This question opens the door to depth. 

[u/One_Net_1282]

I understand it can be painful to feel compared to his late wife. In context, my takeaway from his explanation of how long it took him to say ILY to his late wife was a reassurance to you - and it was entirely to convey to you something about HIM. Not about his late wife; not about you. He is outright telling you how slowly this kind of step comes to him. Instead of seeing this as a negative, there's a way to see this as something EXTREMELY positive, both about him and the relationship the two of you have.

You had to be true to yourself and convey to him what was in your heart, and that's beautiful. Of course there's an awkwardness and pain when it's not reciprocated on the spot. I get it. Just hang in there.

Words are cheap. So many people throw out ILY and may even feel it at the time. It seems that you have a relationship with someone who places a very high value on commitment and is the real deal. Hold onto this one! It will be so rewarding when the moment comes.

Personally, I would continue to enjoy and wait/see. When you feel anxious or upset about you saying ILY first, just remember, that was your choice and it was early. That's OK but it means there isn't anything wrong with his timeline either. People move at different paces on certain steps. I applaud his integrity and being centered in what he knows is right.

Someone serious like this, as you've described, would not behave the way he has if he didn't care deeply and see a future with you.

[u/sfcoffeegal]

Agree with this. I said “I love you” like a year earlier than my man told me. From the beginning, he said he was a person of action and less of words. I knew that meant it was harder for him to be vulnerable with words and it was much easier with actions. I come from an upbringing where I was rarely provided words of affection but greatly taken care of with actions and service so I was probably more accustomed to actions > words. But I also couldn’t help feeling exposed and vulnerable when I expressed love verbally and it wasn’t returned.

However, I think part of being in a relationship is striking a balance between receiving love the way I prefer, and also acknowledging and receiving love the way he expresses it. I felt love from him in every other way: physical affection, how he treated and prioritized me, how considered I was in all parts of his life, how we were planning the future, and how he spent his time. I decided to take his actions at face value and give him space around the words. I’d still express love when I felt like it without expectation of him saying it back. I would still remind him that I’m a words of affirmation person and wherever he did provide any kind of verbal expression of affection, I’d always tell him how much I appreciated it.

My man only JUST recently started saying “i love you“ to me and it’s been over a year and a half. That’s not to say it’s on you to do the work of making him comfortable or healing him, but I just think people are nuanced creatures and sometimes you have to look at the whole picture. Is he there for you? Do you plan for the future together? Does he prioritize and consider you in his daily life? I think that someone can love you and still struggle with the vulnerability of expressing that verbally. It’s up to you as how important that is to you and whether you want to be patient with that or not.

[u/Admirable_Bit8337]

There’s probably also guilt on his end. I know there was for me. I’ve told one woman I loved her since my wife passed. I waited 7 years before I dated after she died. She said it first and I said it back because I felt it and meant it. If he’s making you feel loved and appreciated, I’d give it some more time. But stop saying it to him. That’s putting unnecessary pressure on both of you.

[u/BubblyDiscussion52]

He’s ok to sleep with you but can’t even say I love you after being in a relationship for several months? No. Cut this guy loose.

This is why I tend not to date widowers, you’re always going to be competing with an idealized ghost. I’m sorry. I can tell in your post you’re not happy.

[u/Wonderful-Alps1260 → u/BubblyDiscussion52]

Agreed. The one and only time I tried to date a widower it was obvious the guy was not in a healthy place to be dating. I wouldn’t try again.