DISCUSSION
I’ve been rewatching this show and I had a thought.
It’s still an amazing show ofc, and Jupiter Jazz still hit me right in the feels. I first watched the show about 5 years ago and I understand it so much more now.
But I’ve been rewatching it in a whole new light since iirc in 2006 (20 years ago 😱) Watanabe said in an interview “Sometimes I'm asked the question, 'What does Spike think of Faye?' I think that actually he likes her quite a bit. But he's not a very straightforward person so he makes sure he doesn't show it”, which makes all of Spike’s meanness to Faye hit a LOT differently. The interview was from 2006, to clarify.
But tbh idk what KIND of “like” Watanabe meant, since Spike is very focused on Julia for the entire show.
What do y’all think he meant by “he (Spike) likes her (Faye) quite a bit”?
(EDIT - clarifications added)
1076 votes,1d ago
414He liked her as a business partner or friend
354He actually had a crush but ofc he loved Julia more so he didn’t do anything about it
308She was like a sister to him (like Haymitch and Maysilee for my fellow Hunger Games fans)
It's the same with all of the bebop crew. They care for each other deeply but are too emotionally closed off to actually be forward about it. I don't think Watanabe meant that Spike had romantic feelings for Faye at least not in a serious way. Maybe there was a passing attraction but I don't think it was real romantic love.
I think it's shown best in the earlier half of the finale. Spike runs off and now faye and jet are alone on the bebop. Faye is talking a big game about how "He was nothing but trouble. He's probably not coming back" and putting on her whole uncaring exterior. And then Jet flips out and grabs her and just says "hell yes he was nothing but trouble. And I don't give a damn."
Both of them are sad that spike left but they can't show it to each other explicitly so even when jet flips out he can't say anything but pretend to be glad he's gone. They just have too many walls up.
Because of that, I doubt spike would've ever even known he had feelings for Faye.
I completely agree. The emotion environment on the Bebop is that they've all (except for Ed and Ein) begrudgingly become found family as they try to come to terms with the betrayals of their past. They're learning to trust again. Ed and Ein, though, they're all for it. There's nothing tentative or hesitant about their participation in this family.
You are 20 years older than when you first saw the show, as you say. Can you understand yet that interpersonal relationships aren't always so simple as "partner/crush/sister"?
Yeah, this needs a "bit of all three" option for sure. They're very similar people that lived together for a while and clearly grew closer over time but there's no real way to say how close, it might not even be the same answer from one day to the next.
I personally lean towards them having kind of a familial relationship along with the rest of the crew, mostly because it feels thematically appropriate and shipping is ridiculously overdone in general. But there is a "something" going on and it probably touches on all three boxes at various points.
The analysis I like the most is that it's a "found family" scenario. To me, it feels less to me like romance and more that after leaving a gang which very much has themes of family and brotherhood, Spike has found a new family on the Bebop. Faye is part of that family. I don't really see Spike as having the emotional bandwidth at this point to get involved in a romantic relationship aside from the "it's complicated" relationship he has with Julia.
I don’t think he really cares at all. He’s a man on a mission. He’s also not evil, so he becomes friends-ish with her. She tends to complicate things but Spike sees the good in her.
I think Spike has no feelings for Faye because of his fixation on Julia, but Faye does for Spike. As a result whenever she tries to get closer to Spike on an emotional level Spike acts annoyed at her and pushes her away. His heart is already taken and even if he found her attractive doing anything would in his mind be an act of“adultery.” You could also say this behavior comes from the idea that he doesn’t want to lose contact of anyone close to him again but I don’t think that intention comes through in the series imo.
Honestly, I’ve always read it as more of a complicated “I like her, but I don’t show it” thing. Spike’s focus on Julia is obvious, but his interactions with Faye have those subtle moments that suggest a deeper connection, even if it’s not traditional romance.
We are shown Spike wanting and choosing Julia every time. While he cared about Faye, it was not Faye for whom his heart ached. He was able to walk away from Faye without a second glance back, yet he was thinking of Julia until his last moment.
I think Watanabe meant there was genuine affection there, but Spike is emotionally shut down for basically the entire series. He pushes everyone away equally, so the fact that he actually lets Faye get under his skin at all says a lot.
They care about eachother. They're terrible at showing it. I don't think there is any romance. I'd consider it a strange friendship between 2 pretty broken people who are muddling their way through life as well as they can. There is a bit of a family vibe at times, so I get your option for that, it's not that though.
I'd say there is very little romance. Spike has eyes for one lady whether she's alive or not, I say that because for most of the series he doesn't know, that's Julia.
I'd also say that the beauty of Bebop is that you can interpret it however you want!
The man does not give Faye the dignity of a second thought once he leaves. He is thinking about being joined as one with the woman he actually loves. If this was my ship, I’d be mad too. 🤣
I always read it as Spike caring about Faye in a way he didn’t really know how to process. Not necessarily “he was secretly in love with her,” but she definitely became important to him beyond just being a crewmate. The tragedy is that he was too emotionally stuck in the past to ever let himself explore that.
It’s similar to Seinfeld with how Jerry and Elaine feel about each other. Yes there probably was attraction at some point, maybe in the right circumstances they’d have a drunken hook up, or have been partners in a different life. But for the most part they are not drawn to each other that way and it’s more of a buddy/sibling dynamic.
I think there are very big IFs in Cowboy Bebop, one of which is what IF Spike was free from his past. There is that thorn in his side he just simply cannot escape from that colors everything he does making him aimless, reckless, and apathetic. Faye is actually a really interesting person, and another IF would be what IF Faye was free from her past. Without the loss of essentially who she was and given a fate of perpetual crippling debt that makes her untrusting, cynical, and self-destructive.
There are aspect of Faye's characters where she is strong and capable and sweet, and aspects of Spike where he is carefree and free-spirited and charming - that in the right circumstances they would seem quite close, chummy or even romantic.
A really interesting moment is when Faye and Julia 'team up' for the briefest of moments, and you do get the sense that they are actually quite alike in many ways.
Those questions were answered. The purpose of Faye meeting Julia was for Faye to learn who Spike’s woman is. And it’s Julia.
Julia is literally framed as the only woman who could complete Spike. She is even called that in the official guidebook. The final act has lyrics about how his love for Julia will never, ever fade away. He was taken and that was permanent for him.
Spike would have slept with Faye if he wast taken but it felt like she was now particularly fond of her but she was clearly struck with him, also probably more like someone likes a movie actor, not quite love. More like a teenage crush. They had a casual attraction but nothing as deep or that could have challenged true love. Nothing that could have been serious or worth it from Spike's side. On Faye's side, it was Unrelinquished love.
The meeting between Julia and Faye makes this clear. Faye is no match for Julia. Not in the same league character wise. It becomes clear to Faye, of course she hates that fact. Its the final nail, the confirmation that she cant compete with her and I feel that is why she lets Spike go in the end.
Imo he never trusted her bc of her own actions and he was also never going to let the candle he's holding for Julia to die....he has no spare room in his heart for a spontaneous cheating liar like Faye.
Fayes problem was she hadn't realized all her tricks were severely outdated in that timeline...she never acknowledges her own century being long gone until that episode where she runs away with Edward looking for her old house.... tragically finding herself stolen from her own time and even a dear friend doesn't stay around for more than two minutes.
The tragedy is that Faye probably understood Spike better than almost anyone by the end, but he was too emotionally checked out to really meet her halfway. That’s why their scenes hit so hard on rewatches.
I think Spike might not really get his feelings about her honestly, he has some kind but what who knows. He's still too hung up on Julia to really entertain that with anyone else though
The show is about unresolved pasts. Faye eventually resolves part of her past. People have to die for Spike to resolve his. But prior to that, for the majority of the show, Spike is in a state of having come from betrayal - those leave permanent scars and make you not trust people. And really give Spike a death wish a lot of the time. That's why we get "whatever happens, happens" and why he takes so many risks. He's not suicidal, but he doesn't have a future or any goals or hopes he's working towards, he's just walking the Stairway to Heaven, stuck halfway (although, Doohan is a vision of what he might be like as an old man.)
Spike's able to form an alliance with Jet because he's in a similar state, after what happened with Alisa, Udai and Fad. But after watching Asimov and Katarina, Rocco and Gren, there are reminders that people who live his lifestyle don't get happy rides off into the sunset.
Then this carefree woman walks into his life while he's mourning the other one. And she has waaay more in common with him than he'd like to admit. They're co-workers, a found family, and definitely like an annoying sibling. Had the show gone on longer, had it been more real to life, I think they definitely would have gone that direction. But, that's not what Bebop is. It's a tragedy, and it was always going to end the way it did.
Spike and Jet assemble a family during the show and it's sad to see it break up as family members grow up. Honestly, Ed leaving gave me more emotion than Spike dying. It was the start of the breakup.
I think their relationship is one of those things that could have been. If Spike's life wasn't the way it was, if he wasn't certain Vicious would come for him eventually, if he wasn't still broken up about Jiulia ... But he was and that's the way it is, so he didn't let it really come out ever. I see Faye's bit with the gun before he goes off as her trying to convince him to just run away and try something with her. But he knows it wouldn't work and he has to end Vicious, the rest of the Bebop crew would never really be safe otherwise. So Spike does what he thinks must be done, and doesn't let anything else show through.
I always read it as Spike genuinely caring about Faye in a way that scared him a little. Not “replace Julia” levels, but enough that he kept her at arm’s length because attachment is basically his kryptonite.
Hadn't he been emotionally dead, there would've been a romantic dynamic between Spike and Faye. He was in a state where he is unable to think romantically about anyone, let alone Faye. Because he hadn't got over Julia and he will never will.
I always read it as Spike caring about Faye in a way that scared him a little because it would mean moving forward instead of staying trapped in the past with Julia. Not necessarily a full-on romance, but definitely deeper than just crewmates.
Secretly married on Ganymede and in an open relationship with Julia by the end. I have contextual evidence I'll be presenting at my next Bebop seminar.
You're really obsessed with their relationship to the point of needing to feel right about it with every single commenter in every post on this sub. I'm curious why that is. My comment was actually for you, to see if you'd show. Sure enough.
She's hot and he's attracted to her boldness, but he can't relate to her stage in life. She's impetuous because she's young enough to still feel invulnerable, he's reckless because he feels like he's already living on borrowed time, so they are on the opposite sides of a significant divide even if they seem behaviourally similar. He's seen too much and absorbed too much damage, plus his heart is locked in the past.
They always bounce between siblings and dating, and I loved their dynamic. Interestingly, I think Faye had stronger feelings towards him, especially by the end of the series.
You know when you know a person well, and you simply know that you could never last as a couple? It simply wouldn't work? But, you allowed the thought to linger because you know you would have amazing sex? I feel like it's that. Their contemptuous chemistry that leads to their bickering, in my opinion, would translate sexually into something volatile and addictive. But they both have so much trauma that they aren't trying to fuck up their living situation for a quick fuck.
It would have been nothing more than the awful, sad sex people have with someone when they’re still wishing they were with their ex. Spike didn’t want to do that to himself or Faye.
I always read it as Spike genuinely caring about Faye but refusing to let himself go there emotionally because Julia was tied to his entire sense of purpose. The way he acts around Faye feels less like indifference and more like someone actively suppressing attachment.
As Spike said himself one eye always seeing the past (Julia) and one eye seeing the present (Faye). He was torn as much from his past and his present as he was from the two women and what they represented.
Julia was the past love that never really goes away, and Faye is the new love that could be. But for Spike he struggled to know where he needed to go. Was his past where he exists or was his place in the future.
Jet understood as he was someone who had already faced this dilemma and made a choice. Spike was paralyzed and not able to choose, so he lived partially in both at the same time.
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u/Mobieblocks 4d ago
It's the same with all of the bebop crew. They care for each other deeply but are too emotionally closed off to actually be forward about it. I don't think Watanabe meant that Spike had romantic feelings for Faye at least not in a serious way. Maybe there was a passing attraction but I don't think it was real romantic love.
I think it's shown best in the earlier half of the finale. Spike runs off and now faye and jet are alone on the bebop. Faye is talking a big game about how "He was nothing but trouble. He's probably not coming back" and putting on her whole uncaring exterior. And then Jet flips out and grabs her and just says "hell yes he was nothing but trouble. And I don't give a damn."
Both of them are sad that spike left but they can't show it to each other explicitly so even when jet flips out he can't say anything but pretend to be glad he's gone. They just have too many walls up.
Because of that, I doubt spike would've ever even known he had feelings for Faye.