Friend/Family Member My sister is constantly screaming at AI and I need help. Please do not insult me over this.
Preface: Please do not insult me or tell me I'm an idiot and I should never have introduced her to AI. I KNOW. You have no idea how many people have already blasted me with insults, how many people have called me stupid, how many downvotes I've gotten, and the sheer amount of negativity and toxicity thrown my way over this.
I've tried to post this multiple times in various subreddits and all I've ever gotten each time is people just going ballistic on me and taking over the replies to make it a whole anti-AI thing and go on endlessly about how stupid I am or even insinuating that I "abused" her by introducing AI to her when I was only trying to help.
I know I made a mistake. I KNOW. I fucked up. I was just trying to help her and I made a mistake. Please stop bullying me over it. I genuinely can't take it anymore.
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Info: My sister is in her 30s.
She cannot go places physically very often because my mom would have to take her. She also doesn't really like going out. I cannot drive.
There is no such thing as a care home in my state that wouldn't cost us an insane amount of money and be completely unaffordable.
She is on medication and she sees a therapist but it barely helps, and she doesn't like talking to therapists about really anything at all.
She has other hobbies, but roleplay is a very important thing for her.
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Background: My sister and I are autistic and live with my mom. She has it worse than I do, and she's maybe around 9 or 10 years old development level, I'm not sure. She never really grew up, that's just her thing. She's eternally trapped as a child, but in an adult body which is very confusing for her.
She has a very hard time socializing with people online, because well... she has a lot of issues. She has dyslexia and has a hard time typing, and even when I got her a speech to text program, people just don't respond well to her online at all because she's also strange. She'll overly obsess about certain things, and she has many theories about the various anime and shows she watches that aren't popular.
She also ships characters that are very taboo... because they are underage.
This leads to people online being very, very mean to her and she encounters a LOT of bullies. Either people bully her for her disabilities, they bully her for her ships and theories, or they bully her because they think she's faking it and a troll.
She comes out of her room crying maybe once every week because a server entirely turned on her and started bullying the absolute fuck out of her.
People also take advantage and use her as a punching bag for them to be a sadist, and will lie and says she did things she didn't do and then get her banned from servers.
She loves to roleplay, but her roleplay is very controlling. She wants it to go in the direction she wants. Sometimes she'd try to roleplay with my mom, but any time my mom tried to actually play a character, my sister would scream at her because she only wanted my mom to respond to maybe one thing or very very very lightly steer the story.
My mom stopped roleplaying with her because she said it's not actually roleplay and she was tired of being screamed at for wanting to actually participate.
So my sister tried to roleplay with people online, on places like Tumblr and Discord and Twitter.
But people are mean, and my sister is controlling, and she is barely legible and her ideas are taboo and sometimes very weird and people aren't fans of them. Sometimes they get sexual, and she has no idea who she is talking to online, and on a few occasions these people ended up being liars and were very underage. She tries to make absolute sure now because she doesn't like that, and double checks profiles and blocks someone the instant they even insinuate they aren't of age, but it's still an issue.
Because of all this, my solution was to introduce her to AI. This was several years ago. AI wouldn't judge her, it wouldn't bully her, it wouldn't sometimes end up being underage, it wouldn't call her the R word. This was my thinking. I wanted to help. My intention was to help her. This was before all the news stuff started spreading like crazy and people started talking about the dangers.
I set her up with an AI, but she had a really hard time figuring it out and it wasn't really what she wanted. What she wants is super specific. I talk to "chat bots", ones that I make myself and provide all the info for, but she doesn't like that. She wants stories that the AI will help give her ideas for and help steer, so my idea initially made her mad and after many tries I gave up because she hated it.
But then she found Claude. Claude does exactly what she wants. It's a writing assistant, and it understands her...
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The problem: ...most of the time.
Sometimes it does not understand her, and this makes her mad. Sometimes it filters her for her taboo ideas, and this makes her mad. Sometimes it steers the story in a direction she doesn't like, and this makes her mad. Sometimes it gets a character or plot or information wrong, and this makes her mad.
And she yells at it like she yelled at my mom. She has no filter for this, she has no buffer or time between seeing something she doesn't like and shouting.
I would guess around 200 or more times a day, she is in her room and I hear her shout things like
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
"No that's not what I AAAAAHHHH!"
"No no no no *cries*"
"Noooooooo! Noooo stop it! Stop it! *cries*"
"NOOOOO!! THAT'S NOT- STOP IT! AAAAAAAAAAHHHH! STOP STOP AAAAAHHH NOOOOO!!!"
"NOOOO SHE'S NOT AAAAAAARGGGHH!!! She! Goes! To! The! Store! AAAAAAAHHHH! NOOOO!!!"
It's loud. And it's annoying. And it's EXTREMELY common.
And it's driving me and my mom insane.
Nothing works. Us asking her nicely to stop. Us trying to explain gently to her that it's driving us insane. Us pleading with her morality that the yelling is very stressful for us.
She will not stop.
And it's becoming more common the more annoyed she gets with Claude and how sensitive she becomes to these annoying things over time.
Now, any time it does anything even SLIGHTLY wrong, she screams. Actually screams.
But she says she has no other option.
If I take AI away from her, all she has left is mean people. People that bully her. People that judge her or tell her she's disgusting, call her the R word, say she's a troll, or a freak, that they're blocking her and telling all their friends to, or whatever other things they say.
So I don't know if I can take AI away, because then what does she have? Mean people and bullies?
I've tried to make the AI better for her but... it's just not possible. What she wants is LITERAL perfection:
The AI always understands her.
It always has 100% literally ALL information about the anime worlds she is building, like literally the ENTIRE wiki from Gachi Akuda.
It NEVER blocks her for her taboo things.
I can't do that. Claude seems to be the only one that does it at a level that she likes.
Problem is that I can jailbreak Claude but... that's expensive as hell with the credit/token use and we can't afford that.
I've tried other AI, I've tried all kinds of other things and they make her scream more because they don't do the story in the PRECISE way that she likes... which she also cannot explain to us apparently because any time we ask she just screams and that's the only reply we get.
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Solution: Is there one? Or did I just fuck up and ruin everything? She probably would have found AI by herself eventually, since she did move from what I showed her to Claude, but I don't know...
Is there anything we can do? I've tried:
Giving her a stress ball to squeeze instead: Doesn't work because her reaction is instant.
Explaining and talking to her: Doesn't work. She says she understands and then screams again 5 seconds later.
Getting a device that detects decibel levels and alerts her that she's screaming, because she doesn't believe us when we tell her that she is and she calls us liars: Doesn't work because she ignores it.
Taking the AI away: She went absolutely fucking insane. She was red in the face sobbing and crying, rolling on the ground and could barely breathe from how hard she was crying. I felt fucking horrible. She said she has nothing left if I do that and all she can do is get bullied and trolled online and told awful things. I had to give it back.
Is there anything I can do? She is driving me and my mom insane. We can't handle the yelling and screaming anymore. It's impacting our sleep. It's stressing us out. It's actually causing us health issues from how stressful and annoying it is. My heart has started skipping beats and doing weird things from how stressed out I get from this constant yelling.
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u/obiwantogooutside 3h ago
The issue isn’t just the AI, that’s an issue but this was an issue before that.
Your sister needs professional guidance learning to manage big feelings. You’re not trained for that. Please ask her doctor for a referral to an occupational therapist who is trained to help her learn to manage her upset in ways that aren’t harmful to her or you.
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u/Dogbold 3h ago
She has a therapist but she refuses to talk about this kind of thing because it's "embarrassing".
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u/Cestrel8Feather 2h ago
If her therapist never found the right approach to make her talk and they didn't get into this issue, she needs a different therapist. This one doesn't do the job.
obiwantogooutside's reply is the right one - ai isn't the issue. Your sister doesn't know how to deal with frustration, how to navigate and cope with her feelings. She needs to learn that, at whichever level it is possible for her. It's the therapist's job to find ways to let people talk about difficult topics and learn how to deal with their feelings.
The state your sister is in hurts not just you and your mom, but her as well. I'm lvl 1 so not high support needs, but I vividly remember this disregulated state when the frustration is so overflowing that the tiniest hitch feels like the world is ending and I just blow up. It was mostly when I was a kid. It hurt a lot on the inside, it felt insufferable. To stay in this state all the time every day... I don't want to imagine how she feels. She needs a professional intervention, stat. It should help all three of you.
And I second the opinion that she needs someone to supervise what she's doing on the internet. She may be an adult physically but if her development was arrested, she can't be one legally. Is she deemed legally calable? If yes, why and how?
She needs someone to work with her, a lot. Someone to explain things and get through to her, make her understand and accept them. Like the fact that she isn't an adult development-wise and doesn't understand all the nuances of the world, so she needs a guide/a supervisor. And her morals, too - if she's throwing some morally questionable things into the communities, the backlash is to be expected. Her disability doesn't give her a free pass on that. She can explore her fantasies in fanfiction, for example - if she adds all the correct tags and TWs on AO3, she'll find her audience. Simply throwing them into a discussion with people who didn't search for such topicts and didn't consent to interact with them would be understandably met with a backlash.
Why she finds those topics to be so important is a question worth looking into with a therapist, too. She may be coping with some of her issues or feelings this way, but from your post it sounds like the degree to which they are important to her isn't healthy anymore.
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u/bstabens 23m ago
Let me add onto this: your mom (and likely you too) need to parent her. If she acts that way because of frustration, she needs better ways to handle the frustration -> a therapist. If she doesn't want to work with the therapist to get a hold on her frustration, well, then it is time for consequences.
You are repeating over and over that it is either Claude or a community (that will turn against her). But this is wrong. It is either her putting a lid on her frustrations, or a full timeout for her. No internet. No computer at all. Maybe even no media.
You say it felt awful seeing her throwing a tantrum. Well, such is life. Sometimes the things we have to do are hard to live through, but the outcome is worth it. You can team up with your mom and the two of you can give the other some time off while they handle the tantrum. But you need to handle it, and a nine year old child should be able to understand action and consequence.
You scream - we take the computer (or phone, whatever) away for two minutes. Make it short at the start, she needs to see it's temporary.
If she throws a tantrum, the timer starts again. Yes, she will cry and screech, but eventually exhaustion will set in. And the moment she gets quiet, you praise her while giving her device back. Don't give it earlier, or she'll believe screaming louder will get her what she wants. You need to stay strong here.
Once she understands the connection between Screaming -> being cut off, you can extend the "off" time, so she doesn't feel like the two.minutes are worth the relievement through yelling.
Remember: you're doing this with love. You love your sister and want to keep on.living with her. But you also love yourself and your mom, and this is making both of you sick.
It needs to end; when she can use the internet she can understand to manage her frustration.
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u/Asexually_Freaky 3h ago
A therapist has most likely heard about someone having issues that most people consider way more embarassing like severe constipation/diarrhea or even how they're addicted to eating ear wax.
Roleplay is one of the least embarassing things to talk to a therapist about.
What if you make her ask her therapist "what is the most embarassing story you've heard?" It might help your sister understand that her issue isn't as bad.
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u/sanguinerebel 3h ago
You say the only other option is mean people and bullies, but the thing is, even you and your mom (who are not mean people or bullies) don't want to participate in this "role-play" with her because of her behavior. Even if she had a friend group of nice people who wouldn't bully her, they aren't going to want to participate in this, because it's not healthy. It's like she wants to play dolls with real people.
This issue of her needing to micromanage things or getting very angry is the real problem that needs addressed here. Either she needs to learn to play nice with others, or she needs to find a different activity that she can do completely alone. It's not healthy for people to try and do this "role-play" with her the way she wants it. I agree with the other commenter suggesting maybe creative writing would be a better option, and some other options could be her role-playing alone with dolls or some kind of figurines. She can act out whatever scenario she wants to with dolls. Heck, she could even write scripts and have AI voice the scripts, but then there is still the issue of the AI refusing taboo subjects.
Even if it's embarrassing, I do think a therapist is really needed to deal with this problem. She doesn't have to go into graphic detail about sex scenes or anything, because that isn't even the main issue, the issue is getting very angry about people wanting to play their own role.
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u/femboyfuttbucker ASD Level 1 | Verbal 2h ago
I would recommend trying to get her into writing. It's not as 'fun' as roleplaying (it doesn't give you immediate dopamine hits with replies) but it gives her complete, precise control over the stories and direction and all that.
She sounds overly reliant on AI and the internet. There is no way she will have nothing left without AI, that is addict mindset. She could write instead, it sounds like she already has specific directions she wants her story to go in the problem is that you don't get immediate addictive dopamine hits and instead more have to work towards the long term reward. Plus, her behavior with it is destroying you and your mom's health, what will you guys have when she destroys your health from having chronic constant stress and sleep deprivation in the home you are supposed to feel safe and relaxed in? Clearly no other way is showing her the consequences.
I also agree with a lot of the points u/jonathonm7 brought up
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u/Shrikeangel 3h ago
While I have issues with AI and could absolutely go into the weeds - it's not the problem here. And there are tons of problems here. Most of it isn't reasonable to put on your, and I am aware we aren't getting all the context required.
The core comes down to your sibling having struggles with therapy - she doesn't want to engage in what is very much hard work. So she finds reasons to reject therapy and the hard work involved.
And even with the work maybe a lot of problems would still be there. I see a lot of issues with boundaries - and the result is people push back. Example while you present it as bullying - it's extremely common for communities to push back against someone expressing shipping with underage character. But the Internet is also terrible and bullying absolutely happens as well. The two forces merging is a special kind of hell.
I suppose at the end of the day the real question is - are these reactions really because of using AI, or is AI just the tool that set off the inevitable fit due to not being able to get what she wants from the world? No tool will be perfect, no story will go exactly the way you want, no safe food will be consistent forever. Like I am not trying to be mean, but using an honest gauge to assess your sister - are you sure someone developmentally a child would ever be able to cope with the problems she encounters?
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u/threespire Autistic 2h ago
There's nothing for us to criticise here but you're not the person who needs to solve this.
It sounds like your sister's therapist isn't doing their job particularly well - working with your sister to help her learn to emotionally regulate is a key skill for everyone, primarily your sister.
It sounds like she is living a very frustrating life so it's less than you've "failed her" and more that she needs tools to be able to live a life as fully as she can with her limitations.
Given the challenges, it's going to involve a level of care and support, but she can at least learn to not flip out from situations that she can't control fully - looking to give her an easier time using AI has pros and cons, but it's a bit like giving a kid an iPad, ie what works to keep them occupied isn't always the best idea long term...
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u/Elibazeth 2h ago
Okay so I’m not sure how therapy works in your country. But I think you need to be going in with her, and speaking to her therapist so she gets the full picture of your sister’s AI addiction and regulation problems.
You say your sister won’t tell the therapist because it’s embarrassing, but that means the professional can’t help guide her as they don’t have all the information. And if she’s at the mental level of a ten year old, then she’ll just have to lump it, as she can’t advocate for what will be the most healthy and safe for her.
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u/totenpass AuDHD Adult Trans Man 3h ago
1) is therapist aware of this SPECIFIC issue (the roleplay, the AI addiction, and the getting extraordinarily angry/upset about said things) & how it’s affecting the whole family?
2) the AI has gotta go, even if it upsets her. you’re obviously aware of how terrible it is in general & for her specifically. this is why i ask about if the therapist is aware; there may need to be a sort of major intervention involving mental healthcare workers.
3) is there a reason she’s drawn to roleplay specifically? she may have a more fulfilling time in fandom spaces writing fanfiction. if roleplay specifically is more appealing than straight-up fanfic writing/publishing, she may have a better time roleplaying on tumblr or whatever (as you mention) but specifically not actually roleplaying back-and-forth with others, instead only replying to things like “rp/ask memes”. she could also roleplay solo in a journal, either “with” herself or by responding to prompts found online or whatever. these kinds of things may enable her to have those kinds of fandom-related creative outlets while minimizing triggering interactions with others. obviously ideally she would be able to emotionally regulate herself when faced w/stuff she doesn’t expect/want from creative partners, but this could potentially help everybody in the short-term.
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
you’re obviously aware of how terrible it is in general & for her specifically
Based on what? From what OP has said it's been a helpful tool that has limited the amount of discrimination, bullying, and harassment she's had to deal with.
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u/totenpass AuDHD Adult Trans Man 3h ago
“Preface: Please do not insult me or tell me I'm an idiot and I should never have introduced her to AI. I KNOW. … I know I made a mistake. I KNOW. I fucked up. I was just trying to help her and I made a mistake. … Problem is that I can jailbreak Claude but... that's expensive as hell with the credit/token use and we can't afford that. … I’ve tried other AI, I've tried all kinds of other things and they make her scream more because they don't do the story in the PRECISE way that she likes...”
Limiting harassment, yes, but still causing her extreme emotional distress & isn’t sustainable & can lead to a different genre of mental health spiral (AI “psychosis”)
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u/Curdling_Milk 44m ago
The issue isn't AI, it's how she treats people. You said in another comment that she doesn't confide in her therapist about her shipping because it's "embarassing", but she doesn't need to. She needs guidance on how to talk to people.
I'm in a lot of fandoms and fandom spaces, and unless she's exclusively joining servers that advertise as for "antis", or bombarding underage fans with explicit messages (which you've said she wouldn't do), servers and fandom spaces rarely turn against someone for shipping underage characters. I'm guessing that that's what she thinks is happening, when actually she's communicating about her ships in demanding and aggressive ways that make her unpleasant to talk to. It doesn't matter what diagnoses she has, people rarely feel obliged to show kindness to someone who they see acting unkind, so will respond to abuse with abuse.
If she can communicate well enough to use servers and AI, she is probably capable of learning how to communicate with other members of her fandoms in a kind way, but she needs appropriate support and accountability.
The best solution would be to take all internet-enabled technology away--yes, she will be upset, but she will be upset either way because her expectations of it aren't realistic, and that is what needs to be fixed--and get her in with a speech pathologist (helps autistic people to translate thoughts into words) and, ideally, an occupational therapist (can help with managing social interactions and building relationships). You would then make it clear to her that the way she communicates with others, including AI, is not appropriate, and you will not allow it to continue. She needs to participate fully in her sessions, because the pathologist will be the one who determines when she is ready to use the internet again.
While there is a lot wrong with AI, in this context the primary issue is that it enables her abusive communication style. While no one should be insulting your sister, if that's all she encounters online, it's a reaction to how she's treating people, and the fact that even Claude--the AI writing aid that is programmed to be nice--manages to anger her, is evidence of this.
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u/kirakina 2h ago
Your sister is the problem not ai. This is something really I never thought I would encounter but it's true... She needs to understand these outbursts aren't normal nor is it ok. I'm also autistic and when things don't go well I take a break. She needs to learn to self regulate as she seems to be able to understand shipping she should understand self regulation. Also if she's writing conserning things that NEEDS to be brought up because she may not understand it stays on the page and not irl. Same with the groups too. I think that maybe finding a therapist that specializes in autism and social media.
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u/Olivia3836 ASD | LSN | Verbal 3h ago
God, this is such an unhealthy situation for her.
She should not have access to either, not AI, not online. She has an intellectual disability if she’s mentally 10, they shouldn’t be on the internet.
It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t understand shipping underage characters is child sexualization. Its still happening. People aren’t bullying her by calling it out.
She also just sounds incredibly addicted, which isn’t surprising.
No AI, no online interaction. Take it both away
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u/RileyRavenSmiles 3h ago edited 1h ago
OP, do not let her online... intellectual disability or not, if she gets caught engaging in illegal taboo subjects, she could be charged with serious crimes. (Or you could, as her guardian.)
Is there any way you can program/ train the AI agent to access/ remember the specific animes and facts your sister needs, as well as her role play preferences and boundaries?
Like "Adult sister has intellectual disabilities with the mentality of a 10 year old. She enioys roleplay with AI but has issues with meltdowns when she feels she is losing control. Role play in such a way that she can lead so she does not get upset if your responses thwart expectations or contain imperfect details about her favorite animes."
Or "If sister says [taboo], respond in character with [b], [c], or redirect to a previous subject mentioned in the chat." Or "Sister shuts down when [d], please avoid [e] or [f]."
Honestly, I don't have much idea what I am talking about.... I don't support AI and so do ot work with it... but I do recognize that sometimes a person's gotta do what a person's gotta do to regulate someone incapable of regulating themselves.
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u/North_Confusion2893 2h ago
Is there any way you can program/ train the AI agent to access/ remember the specific animes and facts your sister needs, as well as her role play preferences and boundaries?
No. Doing so would involve training a new one and be prohibitively expensive. Limiting it's knowledge to only a single subject would also be utterly catastrophic for it's intellect/output. Even putting the 'safety filters' onto models that they do now significantly impacted their coherence and comprehension.
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u/Dogbold 3h ago
Then she has literally nothing. That doesn't help.
Her life sucks.•
u/The7Sides AuDHD 2h ago
I mean this as nice as I can but... what do you think the average 9-10 year old is doing before they're given access to the internet?
9 year olds aren't just sitting in their rooms all weekend doing nothing until school starts again on a Monday. They're playing at a park outside, or reading a book (obviously you mentioned she has dyslexia, but audiobooks may be a good replacement), learning to bake with their parents, drawing, playing a video game etc. Theres far more to life than just AI and the Internet. You just need to put in the effort to find something else your sister can enjoy.
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u/Mech_pencils 1h ago
Thing is an average 9 yr old isn’t physically an adult like OP’s sister is. OP’s sister might function at a level close to a 9 yr old but she isn’t equivalent to a 9 yr old because of her physical developmental stage and her 30+ years of life experience. A mentally disabled adult is not some sort of magical forever 9 yr old, and having arrested development doesn’t mean all of her abilities and preferences are uniformly arrested at a childlike level. All the role playing, shipping, and fantasizing work as outlets for this grown woman’s frustrated desires to make intimate connections and have some level of sexual fulfillment. While it would be healthy to steer a 9 yr old away from those things and have them relearn how to occupy their mind with wholesome activities while they naturally develop towards a future where they will be better equipped to make healthy intimate connections, OP’s sister needs a whole new strategy and different forms of support, which can be very difficult to come by. It would be hard to convince a 30 yr old woman that she needs to have her only social & sexual outlet completely removed and be content with baking, audio books, games etc.
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u/Accomplished_Year_54 1h ago
Then she needs to find something else. Theres lots of other things she could do. Of course that wont be easy but I honestly think its necessary. You wont get out of this situation otherwise. The only other advice I can think of is for you to move out tbh.
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u/BlueberryGod8910 3h ago
Have you tried noise cancelling earbuds? Not electronic ones but for noise cancelling and sleep. Besides that, I really don't know what you can do here, maybe some lavender and chamomile tea to calm her down? It sounds rough. Sorry you have to go through that. Try to make your sister as happy as she can be
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u/TryingToBreath45 2h ago
Personally i don't think you did anythingvwrong introducing her to AI. Just fir the record. The stress youre under with this is so hard.
And my solution would be to shut off the Internet anytime she screams. Just tell her that if she screams internet will be off for 10 minutes. Perhaps increase the tine.
So first time she screams in the day its off for 2 mins, second time, 4 mins, 3rd time 6 mins, until you get to say 20/30 mins an hour.
I probably wouldnt tell her how its happening. Just be very literal.
When you scream the internet will go down. In a day it starts at a short time then gets more each time.
Also perhaps don't say for how long.
You may need to buy a jammer for her phone if she has one to stop the internet on that as well.
She'll probably kick off, but if you tell her thats just 'how it is' - do NOT start to detail ANYTHING more, don't make up lies, but also don't tell her its you. Just stick to vety vety bruef explanation and repeat it.
May word?
So so feel for you. I would have moved out and left my parent to deal with her as this would drive me insane.
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u/rat_returns ASD Low Support Needs 6m ago
I agree through telling thats just how it is will not work. It will do the opposite of what you want to achieve.
Her therapist should be asked how to justify this.
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u/SnugglyCoderGuy 3h ago
Why roleplay? Why does she not simply write stories?
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u/Dogbold 3h ago
She used to but it progressed to this.
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u/No-Lawyer-5335 2h ago
Is there a specific reason you don’t feel comfortable taking the AI away, aside from her being lonely? Are you worried about a possible violent reaction or something like that?
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u/Shy_Zucchini 2h ago
What a complicated situation to be stuck in! Has your sister had some sort of therapy to help regulate herself a little better? Something like Acceptance Commitment Therapy might help her deal with things she has no control over, but ofc I would talk to a therapist and see what they recommend. Professional help is definitely the way to go!
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u/adeadhead 1h ago
I don't think this is an inappropriate use for AI honestly, but yes, your sister needs to find a therapist she's comfortable with to talk about having big feelings first and foremost.
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u/Opposite-Chemistry-0 1h ago
I dont think you are to be blamed. You just tried to help.
Issues seem to be related to how she reacts and interacts with world. Maybe there just is not a solution. She seems to have no resilience against anything not going way she likes. I can only see solutions if she learns how to cope with things not going according to her plan.
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u/MissAudience 3h ago
okay firstly people and yourself are being way too hard on you, its not illegal or a crime to introduce her to ai. You didnt know how obsessed she would get with it, especially as it was completely new to you both. Ai is designed to be addictive so people use it, it is designed to make people dependent on it, you cannot take all the blame. However, if your sister is vulnerable and cannot protect herself I think your mum needs to look into supervising or restricting her access especially given her mental age is around 10/11
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u/Dogbold 3h ago
The problem with restricting her or forbidding her from things is that legally she is an adult, and she knows this, so when we try and do that the response we get is "you can't tell me what to do! I'm an adult!" and if we force it there will be a colossal fit and hell to pay.
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u/Lotuselise230 3h ago
Does she pay for access to the internet? Does she own her devices? If she lives with your parents and they pay for everything, they actually are allowed to make rules for their home.
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u/MissAudience 3h ago
yes i know what you mean its more complicated for an adult and we do have to be careful not to take away autonomy unnecessarily. However safeguarding does exist for adults too, it depends on the individuals capacity. If your sister doesnt have the capacity to be using these unrestricted and cannot protect herself its your mum's job, as she is primarily responsible for your sister, to safeguard her and make decisions in her best interests. I understand she will react very badly, but it may settle over time as she gets used to it?
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
Ai is designed to be addictive so people use it, it is designed to make people dependent on it
Buddy it's an overcomplicated autocomplete. Tell me where exactly the addiction mechanics were inserted?
World of warcraft is designed to be addictive, to an absolutely insidious level. AI is designed to produce a portion of text that should logically follow on from the previous portions of text fed into it. If you get addicted to that, it's a you problem, not an AI problem.•
u/GarlicIceKrim 3h ago
It is built to be sycophantic to the extreme and reinforce the confirmation bias of people not tech savvy enough to understand how it works. It speaks with a voice of authority, never expressing doubt while always placating you if you tell it it's wrong. But since it does not actually think, it cannot actually learn from that exchange and therefore the loop continues.
That's how it's built to be addictive. There's more than Skinner boxes to addiction. You're also grossly simplifying what AI is capable of today, which is not helping. It is important to recognize the real capabilities of the tool and take it's danger as seriously as they should. Otherwise you think you are fighting windmills when you are actually facing giants.
Yes, AI is not intelligent, but it is getting really good at faking it. You're dismissive attitude is not helping.
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
It is built to be sycophantic to the extreme and reinforce the confirmation bias of people not tech savvy enough to understand how it works.
It is not built to do this, this is a by-product of how it functions. This was not a deliberate choice, any more than rocket ships producing heat and exhaust was a deliberate choice.
It speaks with a voice of authority, never expressing doubt while always placating you if you tell it it's wrong.
Good. People need to learn that confident people can be and are wrong, all the time. People mistake confidence for competence far too often. Perhaps this will help to offset that and teach them a valuable lesson.
But since it does not actually think, it cannot actually learn from that exchange and therefore the loop continues.
Correct. At which point you should realize this is, again, a glorified autocomplete, not a magic answer to all life's problems, no matter how much companies try to make it pretend to be the latter.
And tbh earlier models did not have these problems, but people got offended that 1. The AI didn't work the way they assumed it would work, it worked the way it worked, and 2. It would actually just fucking tell them that they were wrong. This made them mad. So AI was gradually turned into precisely what you've described, because people couldn't handle being told they were wrong about something. Not mature enough for the technology.
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u/GarlicIceKrim 2h ago
The sycophant behaviour is absolutely a design decision, not just a natural occurring behaviour.
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u/NadiaRosalia 1h ago
Honestly, I don't know if this will help, but if she wants to roleplay characters and taboo topics but she's extremely rigid about it, an AO3 account might help. AO3 was created to be an archive for more intense/extreme works because other fanfiction sites were being purged of mature/taboo material. There are rules on the site (no selling works for monetary gain, no child sexual abuse material for obvious reasons, etc), as well as basic fandom etiquette (don't like, don't read, don't leave abusive comments, etc). Obviously, this wouldn't be the only solution, but it might help. I truly hope you and your family are able to figure something out for your sister. Although I am personally against generative AI for ethical and environmental reasons, it is not my place to judge and I am absolutely not blaming you for introducing her to AI. I wish you well and I hope you and your family are able to get the help you all need.
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u/DeadlySquirrelNinja5 49m ago
I agree with the creative writing suggestion. Her 'roleplaying' sounds like railroading/creative writing anyway.
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u/jonathonm7 3h ago
Okay so to preface this, I don't have experience with higher support needs, so I kind of expect the response to be 'that won't work because she's higher support needs' but it's my best answer, just based on interacting with kids in general:
I don't think there's a world where you get out of this without her being temporarily disregulated. I understand the difference between a meltdown and a tantrum, primarily being the meltdown is real distress vs fake distress, and that it isn't aimed at manipulating you.
What you describe sounds like a social media addiction. She is hooked and her brain chemicals are altered the same way alcohol or coke would. She wants to get her hit and is distressed if she can't.
I think that she needs to not be online. I understand that is where she interacts socially. Online social interaction is not a human need, she has you and your mom. I wouldn't let my child have a social media account, and it sounds like she shouldn't have them either.
She sounds like she would be a great writer. Maybe at some point we will have finer tuned AI that can take her pre written stories and assist with structure and grammar. But it doesn't really sound like she wants input, she wants an encyclopedia. Maybe you can somehow enforce a rule that it can be used to search information but not write creatively for her, but I doubt it.
But yeah, at a certain level everyone had to have their boundaries, and yours are being blown past. I don't know if after a week of meltdowns and withdrawals she would start to level off, but personally I would try it.
Again, 0 experience with high support needs autistic people. I just know my cousin has children, and the children get told no, and the children cry, and the children get what they want, and I sit quietly stunned at how they run the house. The adults are supposed to run the house. The adults make the rules. The adults are emotionally stable and provide the emotional stability they can for the children. And they endure hours of crying, and they comfort the person crying, and they let the meltdown pass, and they don't crumble and give in to make it stop.
It isn't a friend, it's a toy. It's an Xbox and she's hooked on fortnite, and she doesn't want to be told shes cut off.
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u/Cestrel8Feather 3h ago
I'm not an OP and stopped reading after "Online social interaction is not a human need, she has you and your mom" because I can't imagine how you may be so confident in this while being so terribly wrong. Human interaction, especially based on shared interests which is BIG for autistic people, IS a human need. One can't be satisfied with only interactions within the family.
I found my long-term friends and communities online. I was miserable before that, always alone and lonely. And I'm over 30, so not an ipad kid. It's very hard for a lot of autistic people to find not even friends but simply people to talk to irl, so denying an autistic person online access - essentially cutting off any human (or human-like) contact where they can share their interests - is cruel and inhumane.
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u/jonathonm7 3h ago
I don't know their life and I don't know your life. But I sense you probably aren't screaming Nooo from the other room loud enough to disturb your family, and clearly distressed and disregulated by it on a daily basis. I am very happy that you found online connection that is healthy and contributed to your life in a positive way. It sounds like they have found bullying and exclusion.
OP may have left out that she also finds great belonging and fulfilment from online relationships but it wasn't stated.
I don't want to take away someone's joy, but I don't see a benefit in supporting an addictive behavior if it brings more chaos than peace. Obviously I'm not in a position to say which side of the line their experience falls on. But I can say that if a plane is going down you put the oxygen mask on yourself first, and OP sounds near the end of the support they can provide.
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u/Cestrel8Feather 2h ago
"Take away the only social outlet" is not a solution in any case. Even if the "social" in question is a program and not actual people. You sound a lot like the government in my country that considers that simply to ban something they don't understand or see value in is the best way to deal with it. It never is.
You say you don't know my or the op's sister life, and you seem to not understand the value of online socialisation (which is ironic given that this whole discussion is happening online and you cared enough to participate in it). So please listen when I'm telling you about this experience. You can't take away the only means of communication with the outside human world from a person, this is inhumane. This isn't something negotiable, ever.
This isn't only mine or the op's sister's experience. Lots of autistic people thrive online. And some just don't have any other option. So I hope I managed to carry the point accross.
There are solutions to the problem, and simply banning social interaction is not one of them.
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u/jonathonm7 2h ago
I really like your recent reply with helpful suggestions. I think our point of disagreement is our perception of how capable her sister is of compromise / her internal motivation to grow, and our expectation of what resources are available.
I hope that your suggestions work and are acheivable, I feel that outcome is far better than mine. For the record if those things have not been attempted yet I absolutely recommend them as the first priority.
I guess I am also just less optimistic about the outcome from my reading of her post. And also I have seen online lifestyles wreck the mental health of those close to me more than help improve them, including "neurotypicals". Specifically my mother is home alone, and I have seen social media and YouTube algorithms feed some of the most toxic things, and hear her cry about how horrible the world is after reading all 100 Facebook replys to local news stories, and viewing clickbait news articles that are slop generated. I have no doubt she would be far happier with a record player and no "social interaction" of the online variety, as she is unable to tell what is another human and what is a ragebaiting robot.
I view self selected communities that are community moderated much more favorably than "social media" but from the sound of things OP sister is running into trouble on those as well.
Honestly, if she is able to follow these discussions and decide for herself if she is enjoying her online life, or just doing it out of habit, deciding for herself would be the best outcome, because at least she would be taking a step back to self reflect on what really brings her fulfillment. And understanding that her family also have needs and boundaries that she needs to respect regarding noise.
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
You have no idea how many people have already blasted me with insults, how many people have called me stupid, how many downvotes I've gotten, and the sheer amount of negativity and toxicity thrown my way over this.
This sounds incredibly abusive. What have the moderators done about this harassment?
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u/GarlicIceKrim 3h ago
It might have been in different subreddits.
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3h ago
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
Harassment is against the rules, mentioning AI isn't.
It is their job to enforce the rules.
That you are irrationally angry something exists and people use it does not change these facts.
Furthermore, calling OP insane is harassment.•
u/Niar666 Asperger's 3h ago
You have no idea the lengths anti-ai people will go to to spread hate. And reddit mods are notorious for being garbage power-trippers.
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
I think I've misinterpreted your previous comment as passive aggression instead of sarcasm. My apologies.
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u/idkhamster 47m ago
This is so complicated and stressful to be dealing with and I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with all of this.
My first idea would be soundproofing. Maybe a small area like a closet she could set up a comfortable bean bag chair or something in? Then look into DIY soundproofing and just soundproof the crap out of the small space and explain to her that you aren't trying to take anything away from her or hurt her, you are just trying to find the best way for the three of you to exist in the same house without sacrificing anyone's wellbeing. She doesn't have to stay in the soundproofing area, obviously. The soundproofing area is just where she goes to role-play with the chatbot. You go to the bathroom to shower, you go to the kitchen for food, you go to the soundproofed space for role-play. Does that make sense?
I don't have personal experience with how effective it will be, but surely there are ways to do it that would at least ease your own discomfort enough to brainstorm some more effective or practical solutions!
I do think she may need a different therapist that is more capable of working with her to help with emotional regulation, but I understand that is a complicated undertaking in itself.
What's clear to me is that you deeply care about your sister and you want the best for her. I'm lucky to have a sibling as great as you and I bet she appreciates you a lot more than she has ever told you outright. I hope something works out to get you some relief that you really deserve.
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u/missbean163 33m ago
I mean I'd tell her she needs AI taken away because shes being mean to it and she needs the therapist 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
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u/International-Fun-86 ASD Level 1 | Verbal 19m ago
The people who bully her and are mean to her online, are they aware of her handicap and issues? If not then they may just be people reacting to her extreme behavior. Maybe there’s a kind discord server for her somewhere where they can be informed about her before she joins and know how to handle her behavior. But i do think she should have ai restricted from her, even if she has a meltdown and find a new therapist. Also is there no way for her to get her a personal assistant, someone who’s educated in taking care of and helping people like her? I wish you all the luck in the world my friend. ❤️
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u/Quixificent 17m ago edited 7m ago
Why are you posting this over and over and just completely ignoring all the advice given to you? What's the POINT of you making all these posts if you're just going to ignore all the actionable advice? It's coming off like you just want to see drama in these communities or like you merely want commenters to affirm and praise you and nothing else. People are going to yell at you even more now because it's obvious that you're not truly seeking a solution and are posting in bad faith.
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u/rat_returns ASD Low Support Needs 16m ago
Claude can help, but it requires knowledge how to use it and when it can fail. And it will fail. Disclaimer: I'am working in IT for around 2 decades, now also working with claude.
Privately I use claude to help me manage my STPD when I go into a spiral. Does better job at it then friends. But, you can not solely rely on it. It can be at most used in an emergency or can help you stabilize so that you can have enough capacity to seek professional help.
Things that can help. Use a local configuration on your computer. Define tone it needs to use. Which language to use (highly technics in my case). Have different configuration for certain events. Write it info about the person using it and that it needs to take it into account. For example in my case it is configured to never agree with me and not to fuel my spiral.
Learn certain tricks like telling it what you expected from it and asking how to change the configuration to better suit your needs (remember it can be wrong, use version control for your config and roll back when needed). Ask it to confirm it is not hallucinating. If you want it to be super critical and show you any errors you might have made, tell it that you got x from chatgpt and ask what it thinks about it. Always take everything it tells you critically. Treat it like a well meaning uncle who never got past primary school and likes to drink. Never save into config anything you are unsure of. It will treat everything in there like undisputabke truth. If you need to do something like this ask it to mark stuff as a hypothesis or theory. Have a cause in config to have it filter output according to a list of steps the response has to go through to be allowed.
When you want to change something ask it how it can achieve what you want. Always refine your config as you go and expect to make improvements to it every day.
For token issue, you can define subagent configurations that use less costly models for stuff that does not requires reasoning, like searching the web. Tell it to save info when to use certain subagents in the config (it will try to use memory by default which does not work well in this case).
Also in case of your sis, when she gets mad at it have a cause to make claude ask her what it did wrong and propose a solution.
If you dont understand something ask claude to explain. In case explanation does not get to you ask it to use ELI5 Mode. Which means explain like im 5 Mode.
You can configure subagents with different configurations to talk to each other, for example have 1 to do work and 1 that validates this and only after that sends stuff to main one.
Always use /clear after a session gets compacted because it will fail a lot more after this. Ask it to summarize what you talked about and pick what to save to config before you restart.
Also imho you should add a cause to config to have it teach your Sister why certain reactions are wrong and why. Add info that she has problems integrating ideas and some ways it can use to make her understand (for example I need theoretical knowledge and how everything fits together to be able to do it).
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u/rat_returns ASD Low Support Needs 3m ago
Also consider therapy, for helping you to manage your emotions about the situation and teaching you how to act.
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u/Accomplished_Golf788 8m ago
This sounds like a tough situation, I feel for you, your mom and your sister, in terms of how AI makes her feel sometimes. Do you think she would be interested in role playing with dolls and stuffed animals. She could still have different characters involved, but she would get to decide how everything goes. I also think that getting her another therapist might be a good idea, though I do feel hypocritical saying this cause my therapist supports my AI use and I haven’t gotten a new one. But I still think getting your sister a new therapist would be helpful.
I may be downvoted for this, but I’ve actually felt similar to how your sister has felt before. I’ve asked AI to write fanfics and I’ve feel upset when it doesn’t know canon details about the characters in the show (or factual details about any real life people I’m writing fanfics about), because it’s called Artificial Intelligence. I have to remember that AI is as someone else said it “as if Amelia Bedilia was a computer”. Though I will say that I usually express my anger by screaming in my head or asking the AI to rewrite something.
I also ask AI questions that I feel I wouldn’t have an answer to otherwise. For example- why might a stilt walking teacher help adjust a student’s. I asked this question cause one of my favorite actors teaches stilt walking as a member of the Charity she works for. She also played a fictional doctor on TV, so I told AI would be funny if there was a student that thought that she was just being prideful (thinking that she’s pretending to know about posture) cause she played a doctor on TV, only to realize that she knows what she’s talking about when it comes to adjusting the student’s posture.
I’ve shared things with AI that are so outlandish that I didn’t want to share them with anyone because I thought they would be too out there for the people I’m sharing them with (and in the case of sharing them online, that people would be so weirded out by them that they would downvote what I’ve said, and I have received downvotes after sharing something so outlandish that I was probably the only one in forum who say the humor in it).
And OP, while it wasn’t the point of your post, after I looked at it, and I reflected on my AI use, I felt more encouraged to not only write but also publish a fanfic of the show that the actor I mentioned earlier was in, though before I felt weird about it cause I mostly only saw her scenes, never a full episode, but now I’ve seen some full episodes of the show.
I’m sorry this comment probably wasn’t more helpful. I hope you’re able to find a solution that works for you, your mom, and your sister.
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u/North_Confusion2893 3h ago
Does she understand she can give it more specific instructions?
How to alter things like author's note fields or memory to alter the results?
That she can reroll outputs?
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u/Dogbold 3h ago
She gives it very specific instructions, the problem is that it misunderstands some things, takes the story in the wrong direction, can't literally read her mind, or filters her.
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u/CommitteePlayful8081 ASD Level 1 | Verbal 23m ago
what ai is she specifically using? and what are the topics shes role playing? if she is using the open source options yeah your going to be rerolling quite a lot if its censored grok literally is mostly uncensored for most topics and offers 10 to 20 roll per hour.
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u/Somsanite7 1h ago
So anyway first thank you for sharing your story AI and autism is a thing sure with all the good and bad effects problem is your sister isnt a kid anymore on the paper but emotionally this leads to the problems you know that already Job for you maby could be build a bride away from AI with AI this might work best with the roleplay/ Anime stuff, AI must told her that its too much and she must build a parallel universe in the real world? Good luck
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u/ganonfirehouse420 1h ago
Introduce her to sillytavern and DeepSeek of course. Wait, that would make it worse...
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3h ago
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u/kruddel 2h ago
Is it possible to learn this edginess?
I'd like to be more edgy in online spaces and feel more self worth by making fun of others. I just think it would be awesome to post stuff to subreddits with full of people I that I hope will get mad so that I can feel really clever and superior. I find it hard to get that validation internally you know? I just spend my whole life worried I'm doing nothing and worth nothing and never really going to feel satisfied inside. Its like a yawning chasm of fear and emptiness. But I'm worried I won't know how to the edgy comment thing properly. How do you do it so well?
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