African and Caribbean folks, do you often notice when you are being used as a weapon against Black Americans?

[u/MerumazingGirl]

Centering Black Africans and Caribbeans for this post!

Extra: Are you familiar with Black American History? Do you know about Blackface / Minstrel shows and how do you feel about them? [Because asking a similar question got me banned from the Nigeria sub. 🤣]

Writing here after reading a post from the "Am I Overreacting" sub. The post was deleted but it was basically a post from a white woman, she was talking about how somebody she knows has a "mammy" doll. The doll appears to be a black woman but the features are exaggerated, doll has big lips, pitch black skin and really I mean really massive breasts, like why. 😭 [I wish I screenshotted y'all!]

(For those unfamiliar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammy_stereotype)

The girl was uncomfortable looking at it and so am I, she expressed her feelings to her boyfriend and he's talking bout some it's "small potatoes."

Maaaaaannnnn.

So I scrolled down to the comments to see what others are saying.

One dude says that his mother was gifted a doll that looks like the one in the picture by an older Caribbean woman, his mother has it sitting somewhere in the house and all her friends toast over the doll. Okay..?

Another says that the doll looks similar to African fertility dolls like THE HELL IT DOES. 🤣

A girl's saying that it resembles a figurine from the Santería religion. I know that's cap cus I been down to a temple myself and know what she's referring to.

Then I'm reminded about another post about golliwog dolls and a white commenter showing his African friend these dolls and how they're not offended by them.

If this was askwhitepeople, I would ask why do they feel so comfortable using stuff that is relevant to Black Americans and weaponizing African and Caribbeans against us? But since it's not and I do not want to put myself through that..

Do you guys notice this? And since I know that Black Americans can be ignorant as well, what are some things that you wish we and white folks would get right about your cultures? And while your histories look different from ours, what are things that you and folks from your ethnic group would be offended by if exposed to it?

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[u/Admirable_Safe_7551]

It's important to recognize that Africa has become a multiracial continent, and that the Caribbean had no choice in being multiracial. 

I assume your post isn't to white Africans and Asian Caribbeaners, but what race was the Caribbean woman who gifted the anti-Black doll? I don't mean her perceived race, but the race(s) with which she actually identifies. 

Also, poor people worldwide will always be manipulated for their naivete. Poor Black Africans might not know a golliwog, but wealthy Black Africans will. 

[u/MerumazingGirl → u/Admirable_Safe_7551]

I assume your post isn't to white Africans and Asian Caribbeaners, but what race was the Caribbean woman who gifted the anti-Black doll? I don't mean her perceived race, but the race(s) with which she actually identifies. 

I wish I knew, the only thing I can guess by the originals comment is that she has to be a Caribbean that's Black / African presenting if that's a better way to word it.

I think I also heard that similar dolls were gifted to tourists from the islands but I looked these dolls up and they aren't nearly as bad as what I seen, these dolls looked like they were made with respect while the other doll looks like it's sexualizing and mocking black women at the same time. 🫠

Also, poor people worldwide will always be manipulated for their naivete. Poor Black Africans might not know a golliwog, but wealthy Black Africans will.

I see, in that case I will say that if I ever come across an African or Caribbean person being misinformed on issues significant to Black Americans, I will talk to them. It just makes me upset how there's some people who take pleasure and driving a wedge between us. 😭

I didn't say this to them yet but I think what makes me so uncomfortable is that commenter (guy whose mom owns these dolls) knows that the history behind these dolls is messed up yet in another comment he talks about how his mom and her friends will cheer and toast over that doll.

I could never.

It's important to recognize that Africa has become a multiracial continent, and that the Caribbean had no choice in being multiracial. 

How do you mean? I don't understand, sorry. 😭

[u/Admirable_Safe_7551 → u/MerumazingGirl]

she has to be a Caribbean that's Black / African presenting

No, people don't always identify as how you read them. I've met South Asians darker than me who you might think are Black because of their features. 

It's important to recognize that Africa has become a multiracial continent, and that the Caribbean had no choice in being multiracial. 

How do you mean? I don't understand, sorry. 😭

Black Africans have allowed non-Black Africans to become decision makers. The continent is functionally multiracial. Enslavers and colonisers forced multiracial mingling in the Caribbean. It's why we're more mixed than other Black identities.

[u/Ok_Lavishness2638]

African and Caribbean folks, do you often notice when you are being used as a weapon against Black Americans?

We often notice when some Black American folks use us a scopegoat for their mistakes or failures

Extra: Are you familiar with Black American History? Do you know about Blackface / Minstrel shows and how do you feel about them? [Because asking a similar question got me banned from the Nigeria sub. 🤣]

Were you banned for merely asking the question or was there a hostile tone in making them seem like they are ignorant for not knowing enough Black American history. There has been upsurge of all of that on social media and Africans are pushing back.

[u/MerumazingGirl → u/Ok_Lavishness2638]

We often notice when some Black American folks use us a scopegoat for their mistakes or failures.

I will approach this carefully as I don't really think this is related to what I asked and I can't tell if you are being serious and if your response is in good faith. Again, I ask you that if a white person comes to you regarding an issue that Black Americans face. How do you respond? For myself, I normally separate myself from conversations I don't know anything about when it comes to it.

Were you banned for merely asking the question or was there a hostile tone in making them seem like they are ignorant for not knowing enough Black American history. There has been upsurge of all of that on social media and Africans are pushing back.

I asked if they knew about Blackface and if they did, what did they think about it. I then talked about what I mentioned in the last paragraph with a white person showing these strange looking dolls to their African friend and asking them if they were offended by it.

A moderator said what was explained to me as a Nigerian swear word, removed my post and banned me from the subreddit for "bringing nonsense to their subreddit." [I'm still confused but I think attaching the image of the doll was the issue. Cus before then I was pretty active on the sub.] I was a little annoyed by this but fair. After that I went to a community I know outside of Reddit and I asked the same question, a Nigerian person I spoke with said that most Africans wouldn't know what Blackface is, and that Nigerians and Africans overall are affected by different things than we are but he made sure to tell me that if you tell or show an African person what's offensive to them they will get with you right quick. 🤣

Note: A couple users did give pretty well thought out responses but I forgot what they said. I think in the same post I asked if any of us would really look at these dolls and go, "Hey! They look like me!"

I want to say that it's fine if Africans aren't aware of our history, but I feel like say if you're at work or at school and you're close with an African American colleague / classmate, the notion is nice as it is for us to learn more about Africa and the cultures surrounding the folks that live there.

I forgot his name but I remember an African youtuber who frequently travels to the US, he'd go to different states and make videos on what Black American culture looks like there. His video on Louisiana was right on the nose. And even though I have mixed feelings on this man I heard that the streamer, IShowSpeed did a pretty good job in showing the beauty of Africa.

I recently befriended a Malian guy and he told me that a few years ago he had a bad opinion on Black Americans because of what others around him were telling him. I just never really had the opportunity to speak to Africans but I'm trying to change that, and I feel that having these conversations and just learning more about each other are helpful.

[u/Ok_Lavishness2638 → u/MerumazingGirl]

I will approach this carefully as I don't really think this is related to what I asked and I can't tell if you are being serious and if your response is in good faith.

My response is completely serious and in good faith as it is a direct response to your post's title. In other words the claim that we are weaponised by whites is the scapegoating I am referring to.

Again, I ask you that if a white person comes to you regarding an issue that Black Americans face. How do you respond

That's the thing. White people don't come to us regarding BA issues. Why would they? They have no business discussing BA issues with us.

but he made sure to tell me that if you tell or show an African person what's offensive to them they will get with you right quick. 🤣

Don't understand what you meant by 'they will get with you right quick'

[u/MerumazingGirl → u/Ok_Lavishness2638]

My response is completely serious and in good faith as it is a direct response to your post's title. In other words the claim that we are weaponised by whites is the scapegoating I am referring to.

But.. this isn't what scapegoating is though. Scapegoating by definition means to blame someone else for your own actions, I am not blaming African folks for anything. I mean just as I have said, this [White folks approaching Black Africans to talk about things relevant to Black Americans] apparently is the experiences of other Redditors. Unless they're lying cus people are comfy to hop on this app just to lie straight through their teeth. 💀

You never know with folks but I was kinda thinking it was a lie when the guy in the post I mentioned talked about how his family and friends all laugh and toast drinks over slavery memorabilia and then in the same post he would turn around to discuss how dark and screwed up the slave trade was.

Like.. If you know that, then why the hell are you frolicking and giggling over the damn thing?

but he made sure to tell me that if you tell or show an African person what's offensive to them they will get with you right quick. 🤣

My bad that's an expression here in the States, it means that if someone is being disrespectful to you they will confront you immediately. They also told me some things that Nigerians might not be cool with so I know now. 😭

Thanks for the healthy response cus I thought this conversation was headed towards another direction. I have a hard time telling where a conversation might go on this platform. 😭