Gnosia - Episode 18 discussion

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Gnosia, episode 18

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Episode	Link	Episode	Link
1	Link	14	Link
2	Link	15	Link
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5	Link	18	Link
6	Link	19	Link
7	Link	20	Link
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[u/salic428]

Thank you for watching. It was a good ride.

Okay but seriously, this feels like we missed something and accidently hit the Normal Ending. No way they "kill" the Setsu we love for good.

• The only complaint I have about today's episode is that the first part feel kinda rushed. Setsu may as well pull Yuri aside and say "I was given this Silver Key when I was on the verge of death on that fateful timeline". For the actual anime version, I saw the twist coming from a mile away (thanks to that foreshadowing planted in last episode), which sort of lessened the impact.

• I know this is (very likely) not the real ending, but that long Ending Song and epilogue describing everyone's future was so endearing. It is also sung by Setsu's VA.

• About everyone forgets Setsu. To me, this implies that the universe in GNOSIA is very robust. Yuri was created as BUG, but in most timelines, since there was "just one" Yuri, the universe simply "patches" the bug by tampering with memory. That's why the universe was not destroyed in those episodes where Yuri's side won. The only way to end the universe is for two Yuri to observe each other.

• Now, what should we do? Yuri lost the Silver Key, they can't redo this ending. They are supposed to live a happy life and don't ever think about Setsu again. (wow, this reminds me of [Steins;Gate VN] Mayuri Ending) Here are what I think could be crucial to solve the problem.

• When you think about it, the anime has been cooking something about Kukrushka since her introduction. In episode 6, Yuri tried to protect her but got frozen. In episode 8, she showed her "mystery" side. In episode 10, the anime broke the pacing to insert a lore dump about Kukrushka. In episode 13, it is heavily hinted that Manan and Remnan gave birth to SQ, then somehow Manan ended up in Kukrushka. Finally, in episode 14, Kukrushka said "You'll eventually learn who I am". Which is suspiciously not talked about again.

• Why does the Setsu of episode 1 ask "do you want humanity to be exterminated?" Also, at the holodeck Yuri said they have dejavu of Setsu, to which Setsu said something like "cherish that feeling". What exactly is that familiar feeling?

• I know it could be because of different timelines, but something doesn't line up about the detail of evacuation from Liu-An. Last episode, the "real" Yuri lost their memory, and everyone remember Yuri saving Setsu. But this episode showed that Setsu could die during the evacuation, and people forget Setsu when they leave. I have some theories but they contradict with each other, so I'll wait for the anime to reveal more.

[u/duo99dusk → u/salic428]

With this episode though, the fate of episode 1 Setsu (Another multiverse's Setsu) is tragic, they gave the key to Yuri and Yuri voted them to cold sleep.

[u/OldInstruction5368 → u/duo99dusk]

That Setsu had clearly been looping already, though. They were fond of Yuri to such an inexplicable extent that it made Yuri wary of Setsu and the others suspicious of Setsu in turn.

So the Setsu that gave the key to Yuri, was a Setsu that was already an accomplished looper.

The question then is... where did Setsu get the Key they gave Yuri? Was it really Racio's Key both times? That could be possible... with some type of time loop/mutliverse shenanigans where Setsu and Yuri both give each other the same key in different world lines.

I guess that explains why they were always looping at different rates, as it was impossible for them to ovlerap fully? It really did feel like hte more hte series went on, the more Yuri was the veteran and Setsu the newbie looper.

[u/Far_Lack_6299 → u/OldInstruction5368]

Yo también tengo esa teoría y observación de que con forme Yuri o tenia información iba "retrocediendo" en las líneas de tiempo donde Setsu no tenía tanta información. Para así poder completar su llave y descubrir la verdad. Sin embargo creo que también en otras líneas de tiempo debería de revelsrse toda esa información faltan te acerca de kukurushka, SQ, Mannan y Reman, que por lo menos para mí aún falta descubrir... 

[u/TheWizardOfFoz → u/OldInstruction5368]

She gives Yuri his own key back (the one she used to open the doorway).

[u/jardex22 → u/duo99dusk]

It was vice versa. Yuri voted for Setsu, then they passed the key to him. Maybe Setsu got the last piece of knowledge they needed during the events of episode 1.

[u/duo99dusk → u/jardex22]

Or maybe Setsu gave Yuri the Silver Key that universe's native Raqio still had? I just rewatched ep 1 and the key was still in its package 🤣

[u/jardex22 → u/duo99dusk]

Good catch. I'll probably watch episode 1 again later.

[u/AvatarTuner → u/duo99dusk]

I also think it's possible that this was Racio's key too and Setsu had their own one. (Possibly also Racio's from another timeline?) The full key Yuri had, floated away immediately to another universe which I assume will use up all of that stored energy/information and then it might remain dormant again until someone activates it by saying that catchphrase.

Racio also mentioned they've never seen a life specimen while still having one gift wrapped in their drawer. So they probably get the keys from somewhere but never use them themselves because they're a pain in the butt?! lol

[u/liscup34 → u/duo99dusk]

Might be the Silver Key is just sleeping in its "cell" when it is full and sleeping or something.

[u/Fabulous_Pea7780 → u/duo99dusk]

Setsu in the first episode tells Yuri do you think humanity should be erased from this universe ??? ... makes me think that Setsu wanted Yuri to vote him for cold sleep but why ??

[u/darthvall → u/duo99dusk]

I was theorising that this episode Setsu brought the sleeping Yuri to the first episode. Then they filled all of their silver key and gave it to Yuri to start the loop. That would perfectly close the loop in circle.

However as you said, that would be a tragic ending for Setsu if true. Meanwhile Yuri got a relatively happy ending this episode with no Gnosia (albeit also no Setsu).

[u/jardex22 → u/salic428]

The only complaint I have about today's episode is that the first part feel kinda rushed. Setsu may as well pull Yuri aside and say "I was given this Silver Key when I was on the verge of death on that fateful timeline". For the actual anime version, I saw the twist coming from a mile away (thanks to that foreshadowing planted in last episode), which sort of lessened the impact.

I think the real twist was supposed to be that Raqio had a second Silver Key. I imagine some people were expecting Yuri to fill his key up, then pass it along to Setsu.

That does bring up the question of what they could have done with that knowledge. They could have put the whole crew through the loops, unless it's not present in Raqio's room while Setsu and Yuri were both looping.

[u/Whole-Extension3561 → u/jardex22]

While Raqio's key could be seen as a "second" key, to avoid a paradox it's virtually the same key with the difference that it is this universe's key.

Universe-A Setsu had Key-A and gave it to our Yuri (B) on episode 1, this Setsu had already crossed to another universe (B) with Yuri-A's full key. Now we just saw Universe-B Setsu cross to Universe-C with Yuri-B's full key with the intention of giving it to Yuri-C once it gets full.

So basically it's a cross universe chain that repeats, until...

[u/EasilyDelighted → u/jardex22]

He didn't have a second silver key.

There's has only ever only been one key. Racio's key was used to save Setsu > Setsu then passes it to Yuri who completes it.

The bigger problem is that this becomes a bootstrap paradox. Who gave Setsu the key originally so that it could travel back and give itself the key? There is no beginning to its own loop.

And no matter what happens, real Yuri is destined to die when taken by Setsu to a universe with Gnosia and be replaced by Bug Yuri.

[u/liscup34 → u/EasilyDelighted]

Wait. The original Yuri in that world line would already be killed and this original Yuri replace the dead one. Gnos simply creates a body to jump world lines once original Yuri gets the Silver Key to jump. If the Silver Key doesn't want to send consciousness to that particular world line then Gnos can't create a body.

Though it would be an Ouroboros. If A gets a ball from somewhere then future A time travel back into the past to throw the ball at past A then it complete the loop. It is eating its own tail. Yuri gives Setsu the Silver Key so Setsu gives Yuri the Silver Key. They can't exist without each other. The Silver Key also has 2 snakes biting each other's tails image, it is Yuri and Setsu.

[u/inthe-otherworld → u/EasilyDelighted]

Regarding Real Yuri and Bug Yuri, this episode makes me think a little differently. This is just my theory, but maybe Bug Yuri wasn’t actually created by Gnos, it’s a result of Setsu taking Real Yuri to another universe

When we saw Real Yuri wake up one time, they didn’t seem to really remember what happened either, maybe they actually do have amnesia from their accident. But Bug Yuri and Real Yuri can’t exist at the same time, so Setsu takes Real Yuri with them to the other universe so our Bug Yuri can live on as the “real” Yuri. But Setsu also says that the other universes “have the same characters” only that they can’t interfere with other universes. So Real Yuri will appear in another universe where another “Real Yuri” already exists – this makes our Real Yuri an anomaly that shouldn’t exist and there are two Yuris again. And the timeline continues on as normal as it has in this universe, with that universe’s “Real Yuri” dying on Day 0 and a “Bug Yuri” taking their place. But maybe it was never Gnos who made “Bug Yuri” – “Bug Yuri” is actually just our Real Yuri who was brought over by Setsu, and then settles into place looping and eventually believing themselves to be a bug

Our Bug Yuri was once a “Real Yuri” of their own original universe, until another Setsu removed them from their original universe into this universe to save their original universe’s “Bug Yuri”. And our Yuri is a double as a result of Setsu moving them, making them a “bug” who shouldn’t be there since the current universe already has a Yuri. But our Yuri saves and gets along with the current universe’s Setsu, making Setsu indebted to them and eventually move the Real Yuri into another universe, thus repeating the cycle

It works out with Setsu because Setsu was destined to die on Day 0 too, maybe Setsu can disappear and be forgotten because they weren’t supposed to be there either. And another universe’s Setsu and Real Yuri arriving in another universe causes an anomaly that makes everyone forget Day 0 so the other Setsu and Real Yuri can slot into their new positions. Our Setsu will give our Real Yuri the silver key once they get to the new universe, because they know Real Yuri will need it to survive going forth, thus completing Setsu’s loop because Setsu finally gets to meet and talk with Real Yuri, which they never could before because our Bug Yuri existing would cause the world to end before they could talk to Real Yuri

It’s confusing but it means our Bug Yuri was never fake, they and the other Yuris are caught in a cycle of constantly being displaced to a new universe to protect the new Yuri who was displaced into their universe

[u/salic428 → u/jardex22]

put the whole crew through the loops

how is that done? go to Racio and convince them to use their Key on a different crew each time?

First, I'm pretty sure some people will become insane from endless looping (e.g. Sha-Ming); Second, that would make the meetings a real nightmare for Yuri because now everyone knows everyone's behaviour.

[u/duo99dusk → u/salic428]

Looping Shigemichi would be hilarious

[u/salic428 → u/duo99dusk]

Oh and Shigemichi could have used that to retain his memory of that episode when he dated Stella. I mean, the epilogue says Stella died with Jonas "while waiting for a kiss"... she deserved better.

[u/duo99dusk → u/salic428]

Sleeping BeAIuty

[u/Raiking02 → u/salic428]

Okay but seriously, this feels like we missed something and accidently hit the Normal Ending

I dunno why but this phrasing reminded me of when [Persona 4 the Animation]ended its Japanese TV run with the Good Ending, but they left the True Ending for the DVD release, although IIRC by the time it made it to the west it already came with the "Real" finale.