Umamusume: Cinderella Gray - Episode 17 discussion

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Umamusume: Cinderella Gray, episode 17

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1	Link	14	Link
2	Link	15	Link
3	Link	16	Link
4	Link	17	Link
5	Link	18	Link
6	Link	19	Link
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[u/szalhi]

Honestly, this could be her actual name and I wouldn't be phased. Hey, how about we make it true?

I blame Roppei for not mentioning this earlier.

[u/eightcheesepizza → u/szalhi]

Honestly, I blame Roppei for not mentioning this earlier.

Yeah it feels weird that the Japanese umas are so unprepared for this. If they had practiced for it, we might have been able to watch a shoving match between Oguri and Gold City last episode.

[u/ygtkara → u/eightcheesepizza]

in fairness, I dont think it would've mattered against that giant lmao

[u/Unearthly_ → u/ygtkara]

In which case, if Oguri knew ahead of time she could have intentionally kept a position that doesn't have her get boxed in and let up early if challenged (rather than after getting roughed up).

[u/ygtkara → u/Unearthly_]

what I said mostly the joke of it and I'm not exactly happy with how this foreigners run differently thing either, but if it had to make sense in universe oguri basically took a gamble but also positioning prolly wouldn't have mattered a ton.

even if Michelle is also a pace chaser there wasn't really any way of knowing if she'll fight for the exact position oguri was in, at the back of the pack tamamo was getting thrown around by ellerslie and lunacy, and in the middle she'd be fighting with bianca. With her being third fan favorite she'd likely be getting marked anywhere.

But yeah she prolly should've dropped back from Michelle a little earlier, tho it's kinda difficult to gauge how much time has passed in scenes of the race and maybe there's a more tangible reason for it besides her being stubborn because she didn't wanna end up behind tama.

[u/Optimal-Potato-5136 → u/eightcheesepizza]

Michelle talked in a way that implied how japanese horse girls have a completely different standard and pattern when racing, calling them "polite". 

I think it's less about "being unprepared" and more about a whole opposite standard of how to behave in competitions, which I don't think that can't be learnt or easily dealt with simply with training. Any International Uma grew up in different locations and, as such, racing criterias may vary no matter what. More than "blaming" on Musaka, I simply think that the most correct way of looking is that he took the risk of making Oguri focus specifically on Stamina because he feared she would've ran out of gas like it happened at the Tenno Sho Autumn, which is understandable considering that the Japan Cup is still 400 meters longer; Michelle's pressure is also meant to deplete stamina, so the more the better. 

"If you're blocked, you're blocked." 

[u/GuardianViolet → u/eightcheesepizza]

I think that for better or worse, ~Roppei~ Musaka is a lot more focused on the technical and mechanical aspects of racing and on how Oguri races as opposed to her competitors. He doesn't seem to have done a ton of opposition research, beyond sending Belno out to observe them, so he may not have anticipated just how physical MMB's racing style was or how disruptive it would be. Tamamo's trainer clearly underestimated that factor, as well. I could see Kitahara giving it more weight, but I think it's in-character that ~Roppei~ Musaka wouldn't have given it more than a passing mention offscreen, especially since he's been a bit more laissez-faire with how Oguri runs this race despite all the new variables. And on Belno's part she's not really equipped to cover for that tendency, seeing as she's more of a sports science student and equipment manager rather than a strategist, and was a poor racer for the brief time she did race. Goes to show the difference between them and Obey, who knows each and every one of the other 13 racers very well and took up a position where that wouldn't be a concern for her.

[u/Cyouni → u/eightcheesepizza]

The thing is that there's a difference between what I prepped for at a world competition personally (even knowing some of the overseas styles) and what you encounter in real. In this case, Japan doesn't have a racer of that musculature and size to practice with, and even then it's kinda dangerous to practice for that - that's a great way to risk injury.

[u/Firlite → u/eightcheesepizza]

bumping is a legitimate part of horse racing, and it happens a shitton even in japan. Stay Gold was called a terrorist because of how often he did it and more recently to give an example, Gentildonna shoved Orfevre HARD in a race because she was getting blocked by him when she wanted to escape from being blocked. She won that race but the jockey got suspended.

hell it was even a part of the game in the alpha but they ended up cutting it

This "oh japanesese horses are more polite" thing feels like rationalization for why their guys lost

[u/okiioppai → u/Firlite]

I watch HK Horseracing, which is kind of a tier inferior compared to Japan horseracing in general.

Even nowadays, whenever a Japan horse comes to HK to participate the international races, they always have the disadvantage of being overly polite while HK veterans will bump their way out for a path or intentionally block you in.

[u/Rald_ → u/eightcheesepizza]

Roppei did focus on stamina for Japan cup I dont think they are preparing to compete with Michelle at all, Oguri always waited in the pack before she bring the idea to be in the front herself like 5 minute before the race.

[u/Falsus → u/szalhi]

Wasn't it mentioned in the Symboli Sirius introduction? That non-JP horses races are rougher.

[u/entelechtual → u/szalhi]

It’s also a little weird that Belno isn’t more savvy to some of these race nuances. I would think she’d help prep Oguri more as a support character.

[u/Optimal-Potato-5136 → u/entelechtual]

Berno is an assistant first and foremost who is currently still studying in real time these sort of nuances; she's definitely very clever but still relatively "naive" on some occasions. The previous episode she was actually able to understand and analyze that Michelle's main strenght was on her muscles and physique, but she probably didn't imagine that her giant stature would've been used to apply this level of pressure DURING the race.

After all, it was Musaka that asked to keep the notebook with all her informations. 

[u/entelechtual → u/Optimal-Potato-5136]

I guess I’m just waiting for Belno to get a major assist. Gotta let her cook.

[u/cppn02 → u/Optimal-Potato-5136]

these sort of nuances

Is that just a nuance? Seems to be a major if not the defining difference between Japanese and international racing atleast the way the show portraits it.

[u/Optimal-Potato-5136 → u/cppn02]

It's surely a major difference, I agree with you, but the idea of the "nuance" itself is that Berno isn't able to conceive how Michelle's bulky and tall figure can be used with what she perceives as "rough play". In this context, Berno is simply naive and yet inexperienced: as said in my previous comment, she got that Michelle's main power was on her muscles but she didn't even thought that she would've used her overwhelming stature to be THIS aggressive. 

The point of my use of "nuance" isn't on the "overseas standard" per se but on the way Berno perceives it with her OWN lenses and mentality as something it should NOT happen (or too "improbable" to happen) because, again, she's too used to the japanese pattern. 

[u/ESCMalfunction → u/entelechtual]

To be fair, her area of expertise is equipment. Not race strategy.