Seeking some advice ahead of adjudication

[u/EmphasisMaster7922]

Case details:

1. Fired 11/18.

2. Pending Issues: Separation from a job.

3. Filed 11/23, the Sunday after.

My issue:

I am receiving payments but my separation is in adjudication and I think that with the info currently supplied to them, my claim is likely to be denied and I will be asked to pay back the money. I hadn't found this subreddit when I made my initial filing or the response to the Separation follow-up and I think I've probably complicated things and made a less than compelling case.

I am wondering whether or not it is preferable to upload an additional document outlining the situation and strengthening my position before adjudication, so they have the additional context and info beforehand, or if it's better to wait for their decision and then appeal it if the claim is denied. The three main points I feel are necessary to convey is that 1. I believe the reason for termination on the letter is not the true reason for the firing (also relevant: the action listed on the letter is phrased poorly and the way it's written, it is an absolutely necessary part of daily work at the company, but even taking it in the meaning it is intended, multiple employees have done the same thing listed on the letter and kept their jobs), 2. even if it was, it does not constitute misconduct due to unclear company policy and no documentation of expected procedure, and 3. if it did occur, it was not unsafe (which I guess comes back to 2; it was not misconduct). My boss has said "they've never contested unemployment" but I cannot trust that, it's not their decision anyway, and the letter certainly frames things in a way likely to be considered misconduct.

I'm aware that with these legal situations, it isn't simply about 'making a good case', and there are specific things to address in order to get the desired result, not just 'destroying them with logic' (hope people can tell I'm using that phrase in jest) while failing to meet the necessary criteria for approval. There is no CCTV footage of the alleged incident, and I am unlikely to be able to get current employees to admit they frequently did the thing that was given as the reason for my firing or provide information about any related situations at the workplace. It is likely going to be my word VS the boss'. I've written a comprehensive draft laying out my case, I have maps and photographs, but I would like an opinion on the proper course of action and what really needs to be included in order to get approved.

[u/SoThenIThought_]

We need to confirm what you have previously reported to ESD to make sure that it matches the scenario you have identified, and since it has now been reported twice, that both responses match. And if they don't we will discuss it.

It has been reported on the "initial claim filing" And then about 3 weeks later on a fact finding questionnaire you got called "All Separations"

The submissions can be viewable in the tab area online account titled online activity.

This link is a guide. The first part is a preamble begging you to please read this to understand why we're doing this. The bottom part is the instructions. So I'm pleading with you to please read it and consider following it so that we are not missing something significantly material about your claim.

• What have you previously reported to ESD twice about this job separation?

Specifically the job separation fack finding dropped out menu. Within a specific section within the submission

[u/SoThenIThought_]

Hi there part of this is continuation of this initial eligibility troubleshooting and part of this is a required conversation about the nature of your being fired and us going over what misconduct actually means and you will find out that there is no real benefit to you providing this documentation unless we have such a discussion and you understand why you would be providing it

It would be important to know for you, once you understand why this is, if your payments are currently marked conditional or regular:

I am receiving payments but my separation is in adjudication and I think that with the info currently supplied to them, my claim is likely to be denied and I will be asked to pay back the money.

This is just not necessarily how this works at all so that's what we would be going over:

I believe the reason for termination on the letter is not the true reason for the firing (also relevant: the action listed on the letter is phrased poorly and the way it's written, it is an absolutely necessary part of daily work at the company, but even taking it in the meaning it is intended, multiple employees have done the same thing listed on the letter and kept their jobs), 2. even if it was, it does not constitute misconduct due to unclear company policy and no documentation of expected procedure, and 3. if it did occur, it was not unsafe (which I guess comes back to 2; it was not misconduct).

This is just due to a misconception of what misconduct actually means in terms of how ESD adjudicates it, because it's not determined by the company. So once you get to this understanding this will give you a large weight off your shoulders

Next,

This is an entitled right of the company and cannot be waived by any member so this is a useless phrase from your employer and we will go over this as well This is not something upon which you would make a plan or formulate any actions whatsoever:

My boss has said "they've never contested unemployment" but I cannot trust that, it's not their decision anyway, and the letter certainly frames things in a way likely to be considered misconduct.

Correct it is actually arguing your case relative to the misconduct law, because otherwise such an argument would be indefensible because there would be no standard upon which such arguments would be held, thus the nature of such a law, **once we go over this and once we go over what the exceptions are that are listed in the law that's gone over in the fire guidance that you have not yet read,* then that'll be also another major weight off your shoulders

I'm aware that with these legal situations, it isn't simply about 'making a good case', and there are specific things to address in order to get the desired result, not just 'destroying them with logic' (hope people can tell I'm using that phrase in jest) while failing to meet the necessary criteria for approval.

Where is the information that I am referring to here?

It's in the post that you scrolled past to make this, the compilation of resources post

Which post?

Initial eligibility MEGAPOST

Which part of that post?

---Fired--

Which part of that entry?

Just because you were fired does not mean you are not eligible, you can supply evidence and information to ESD to prove that the firing was not due tomisconduct ^{as per specific criteria with specific exceptions, in state law}, you can be adjudicated as eligible;

I am on vacation right now so if you could tell me some rough times and dates that you would be available and we can go over this stuff even as early as tonight. Typically time to complete all items is 15-45min (depending on a variety of factors including number of tangents and volume of background information consumed prior to consult)

Things that we will go over that will also significantly elucidate your plan

• Personal file request

• Public Records request

• Adjudication process

• Appeal process

[u/EmphasisMaster7922 → u/SoThenIThought_]

Thanks for responding. As far as availability goes - I'm available all this weekend (12/27 - 12/28), which would definitely be preferable if able to be accommodated - and then I'm also available 1/2 through 1/10 - pretty much any hour, with enough notice.

In response to the auto-post about separation responses - my initial filing and my response to the Separation follow-up request do not match, unfortunately. As I mentioned, I hadn't found this subreddit and was pretty bewildered by the process, especially as it's the first time I've been fired, and I wasn't familiar with the proper distinctions between laid off and fired. I've since learned I was fired no matter how you look at it which is why I selected Fired in the Separation follow-up.

Initial filing:

Laid off > Other reason not listed

All separations follow-up:

Fired for performance expectations or mandatory retirement > Other reason not listed

And then in the box below, I provided information similar to what I posted above - that I don't feel it was the actual reason, that many staff did the thing I was accused of and were not fired, that policy around what was expected was unclear and staff had changed their behavior in an attempt to follow new instructions (to demonstrate they were unclear, rather than were intentionally disregarding them) - there's more info but I assume I don't post that here in a public space.

At the risk of complicating things further - I have medical leave coming up (I'm aware you can't be on both).

[u/SoThenIThought_ → u/EmphasisMaster7922]

What's your availability tonight after 8:00 p.m.?

Tomorrow at 10:00 a.m.?

[u/EmphasisMaster7922 → u/SoThenIThought_]

Hello, I did reply to this (although I had to create another account to do so), but I don't see it there now.

Still would very much like to discuss my case when possible, especially as it's become more complicated with Medical Leave now in the mix. I have a ton of availability every day this week except tomorrow (Wednesday 1/21), but even tomorrow I have afternoon and evening availability.

[u/New-Assistant2084]

Youll be fine. I screwed mine up pretty good and I still won. I filed my claim wrong, and I caused a huge mix up. It caused me to initially get denied. I had to explain the situation 100x to multiple people at the unemployment office. Then once that was cleared up, I had to explain my actual case. My employer was lying saying I quit and that I no called no showed. I had proof that they lied. I felt like I didnt explain it clearly,or felt that the agents wouldnt understand. So I contacted the senators office and explained it clearly to them. And then I uploaded supporting evidence multiple times clearly explaining the situation.