r/TurkicHistory • u/ECTheHunter • 7d ago
Some Misconceptions And Miscommunication Problems Between Turkish and Other Turks/Turkic People Online
I want to make this post because I have seen too many people from both sides arguing with each other, saying false facts or simply being rude towards each other online. So I wanna shed some light on some more common issues and try to explain both sides and what I think personally.
1-The Word Turkic(Turki)
This is the most common topic for arguments. Firstly Turkic simply doesnt exist in Turkish. Yes we do have "Turki" but it's a very new word made up just to have some type of translation for it. Nobody used this word until Central Asian states became independent from USSR. The main issue with this word is that when Turkish people say "Turk", other Turks(I'll use Turks instead of Turkic from now on and I will explain why later) take it as us trying to erase their identities which isnt the case. Of course there are insane extremists in each viewpoint so I will simply ignore them since they arent even big enough to gather interest in their own countries. Turkic feels so european to us because well it is a european word. The word "Turkic" is the creation of a german linguist in the 19th century simply not being able to categorize groups like Kazakhs, Turkmens, Uzbeks etc. So he simply went "well they sound like Turks so they are Turkic, which german for Turk-like". We do not like this word as Turkish people because it simply feels alienating to use against people we consider brothers and sisters and also it creates this idea that we arent really that similar. And here comes another issue, people not understanding why Turkish people simply call themselves Turks and the country is called Turkiye. Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Karakalpaks, Kyrgyzs etc. all have some reason why they are called that instead of Turks or Turks living in a certain region. However Turkish people and Azerbaijan Turks dont have this. Azerbaijan doesnt have it since well they werent anyone called Azeri or Azerbaijan as a Turk state until 20th century. Ismail Shah didnt call himself an "Azeri". Azerbaijan is simply a region. It's the same logic as Balkan Turks for example. Here comes the elephant in the room, Turks and Turkiye. We call ourselves Turks because we simply are the combination of many Turks that migrated to Anatolia over 1000 years. Even though the first migrations began with Oghuz Turks, overtime there were many other migrations from Kipchaks, Tatars, Uzbeks etc. I dont know if you guys ever came to Turkiye but we have no defining look due to this. Sure a minority of Turkish people are simply assimilated minorities but the rest is just chaos. I have a friend from Bursa who looks more Central Asian then some Kazakhs yet his family tree has been there for at least 4 centuries at this point. I have a friend whose grandfather is a Crimean Tatar. So when we founded the republic we thought to ourselves "hm we called ourselves as Turks for a long time, europeans call us Turks, the region is called Turkiye. Then lets embrace that fully." So Turkish people call themselves Turks because we see ourselves as a mix of all the Turks. You can also see this in our language and dialects as well, it simply doesnt make sense to limit ourselves to one specific group. So rather than calling you guys Turk-like, we simply say Turk because we see each other as one big group and honestly "Turkic" feels really humiliating if you think about it. Rather than being on the same pedigree as us, you guys are being pushed aside as something similar but not the real deal.
2-Turkish People Calling Other Turks "___ Turks"
This is a very similar problem to the first one. Some Turkish people say for example Kazakhs didnt exist and russians simply made it up to divide Turks. Well, it's 90% wrong. It's true that russians did use a lot of tactics to divide the region and make sure Turks didnt unite at all and even used deportations to distance Turks under USSR from Turkiye, these ethnic groups arent made up. They all have historical backgrounds. So dont just dismiss their identities as russian propaganda guys. Also stuff like "Uzbek Turks", "Kazakh Turks" are very tricky. Because it's technically true but it can perceived as rude or condescending. I mean serbs are slavs but nobody says serb slavs to refer to them. This is mostly people being misinformed or misguided. Those Turkish people arent trying to be rude 99% of the time but most people dont do enough research or have enough critical thinking to think for themselves. So for my homies out there, these Turkish people arent trying to be mean, lets just educate each other and move on. They think they are trying to be inclusive but they are doing something weird in the process. And let's not forget, we had very different paths throughout history. Thus it's perfectly normal that we have miscommunication problems when it comes to a lot of stuff. Turkish people were the boogeyman of europe for centuries and even to this day we are being treated awful by both europeans and muslims around us. So we have a much stronger and sometimes more prideful nationalistic outlook on life compared to you all. If we didnt win our War of Independence, we might have had a very similar history to the Central Asian Turks.
3-Turan
Nobody wants an actual "Turan" anymore. There are more people who believe in the new ottoman empire than Turanists and even they are so low to the point they wont be more than a small town in a country with 90+ million people in it. However we do want something like a european union but more importantly we as Turkish people believe in kinship with yall. We truly want to see each other as equals and under one big family. Nobody wants to force yall to learn Turkish and abandon your own languages. Although we do support a unified alphabet and also more efforts to make it easier to learn each other's languages like dictionaries etc.
4-Russian Language
Let me get this out of the way, for the average Turkish person hearing a Kazakh say that they have lived in Kazakhstan all their life, have Kazakh parents who speak Kazakh say that they cant speak Kazakh is like two flashbangs going off simultaneously near both ears. That concept simply doesnt exist to us. Even Turkish people in europe(gurbetçiler) not being able to speak Turkish sounds weird to us. So when we hear that for the first time, we do have weird and sometimes rude reactions to it unfortunately. And this is the whole core of the "russified Turks" thing. Most Turkish dont have a problem with yall speaking russian, the problem is the lack of your own language. It might suprise you all but we did and still have sort of a similar issue here in Turkiye as well. During ottoman times, Turkish and Turkish language werent always treated with respect. So there is also some ptsd that kicks in for some people. There were and still are some legit arab bootlickers that see them as chosen people. So we do get why russian language is such big problem in post USSR Turk countries but nevertheless, it's still a flashbang for us. Sometimes I come across subreddits like r/Kazakhstan and to my understanding the mods there are russian and they insult anyone who posts in Kazakh. So we as Turkish people should be more understanding when it comes to this but also not gonna lie this is a genuine issue itself. The reason Turkish music, tv, movie and even literature is so big is mostly due to us prioritizing our language and culture over anything else which resulted in very unique styles. Btw, if yall have any type of recommendations for me for any type of entertainment from your own countries, I am all ears.
5-Imposters
None of live in ethno states. So not everyone you come across online represent those groups unfortunately. It's too easy to simply speak the language of the locals and spew absolutely insane stuff to create fights. So always keep in mind, when a "Turkish" person online is calling Kazakh people something like mongol-russian hybrid, they are probably a pkk member. Try to be aware of these people from all sides.
Long story short, just try to be more open minded guys and dont be assholes towards each other. We can make great things happen as one big family instead of competing against each other like we have done for our entire history.
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u/jalanajak 6d ago
There are:
Germans and Germanics;
Romans, Romanians and Romance;
Chinese and Sinitic.
You wouldn't call an Englishman a German, would you?
I share my formative years with many non-Turkic people living in Tatarstan/Russia. I don't share them with many Turkics like Turks or Uzbeks. The vibe is different.