updated CCL signs @ Paya Lebar

[u/jooferjupiter]

nice new signs installed last night, with no obvious errors 👍

in my opinion there could have been some improvements made to the signs:

For signs seen from exit B/C (PL Square) gantries, - at the top row, the EWL and CCL information could have been more explicitly grouped separately, not together - it could cause some confusion as EWL and CCL are not in the same location. the way the info is presented implies they are together, which they aren't (trust me, I have seen people think the CCL platform is the EWL platform)

For the signs seen from exit D/F (PLQ) gantries, - it seems that directions to EWL have been omitted. while there is a small sign at the side of the link bridge, it is not very obvious and many tend to miss it - LTA could have used the opportunity to include EWL directions onto the overhead signs, though they could also paste new bigger signs onto the bridge itself instead in the future

---

I have drawn up some drafts as alternative information layouts (though they break the signage specifications). as the new signage design specs disallows 3 or more rows of info and top-down info grouping in general, I decided to use ¼ of horizontal space for EWL + ¾ for CCL, instead of ⅓+⅔ or ½+½.

overall, LTA still did a good job in making sign info much bigger and clearer

[u/creativenomadjukebox]

Getting more and more complex after every change of signage.

[u/mrfoxesite-2377 → u/creativenomadjukebox]

The older ones from 2001-2019 (minor changes by 2013) were different but the new ones are even more different.

[u/Bitter-Rattata]

Honestly, as a normal passenger looking at the signs, i'll just stare at it and don't understand. Which way is it going. As someone, who seldom take the circle line, i'll be confused.

If they could add "Clockwise" and "Anti-Clockwise" wording, it would be clearer.

[u/jooferjupiter → u/Bitter-Rattata]

LTA doesn't want to adopt the CW and ACW naming on physical signs for whatever unknown reasons. my best guesses would be:

• some internal disagreements between separate teams working on different aspects, and/or
• LTA not wanting to lock in a specific naming in case they want to change it

[u/Bitter-Rattata → u/jooferjupiter]

They could just add-on the clockwise anti clockwise word, without replacing the "destination" station.

For example, at Buona Vista. One see

via Harbourfront | Anti-Clockwise via Bishan | Clockwise

If I'm at Buona Vista and want to go say Marymount, I would straight away identify the track towards Bishan.

[u/Eastern-Coast-5463 → u/Bitter-Rattata]

This is clear and intuitive. I wonder how wayfinding can be made even more friendly for non-English speakers, elderly, kids, tourists etc.

[u/GoldElectric → u/Bitter-Rattata]

i remember them polling about this. i thought the anti-clockwise and clockwise was the most intuitive. they can also just draw a circle with arrows pointing in the direction for non-english speakers

[u/Embarrassed-Memory97 → u/jooferjupiter]

I see CW/ACW as a direction on the loop (must be a form of circle), but I think there's train terminating at Dhoby Ghaut too. So, having too many elements cld complicate it further? 

[u/jooferjupiter → u/Embarrassed-Memory97]

according to current iteration of station displays & announcements:

• for looping trains, the direction will be "Clockwise Loop"
• i.e. "The train approaching platform B, is on the Clockwise Loop heading towards Bishan direction"
• for terminating trains, the direction will be "Clockwise direction" or just "Clockwise" without the loop
• i.e. "The train approaching platform B, is in the Clockwise direction, and will end its service at Dhoby Ghaut"

if they were on physical signs, both can be generalised into just "Clockwise" on its own.

[u/Embarrassed-Memory97 → u/jooferjupiter]

Clockwise doesn't seem to work if the train heading from Esplanade to Dhoby Ghaut. 😅

[u/jooferjupiter → u/Embarrassed-Memory97]

nah, it's correct, the general direction the train is heading in is still clockwise (not to be confused with the clockwise loop)

it's the same logic as: if a train is heading from Choa Chu Kang to Jurong East, despite geographically heading southwards, operations-wise it is technically still heading Northbound, relative to Marina South Pier.

similarly, if a train is heading from Promenade to Esplanade & DBG, it's still heading Clockwise, relative to HarbourFront/Stadium/Prince Edward Road

[u/Embarrassed-Memory97 → u/jooferjupiter]

I have two main concerns regarding the current transit naming and visuals:

Terminology Overlap: 'Clockwise,' Clockwise' Loop and Anti-'Clockwise' all sound and look remarkably similar. This increases the likelihood of passengers mishearing or misreading announcements.

Misleading Visuals: Relying on a "circular"  'clockwise' icon on digital screens will possibly increase confusion, particularly for the sector from Esplanade to Dhoby Ghaut when the train is moving straight up.

Just my feeling..

[u/Hopeful-Importance62 → u/Bitter-Rattata]

I would agree with the decision not to add CW and ACW here. Commuters only need to know CE and ACW at the platform itself.

Without any map or visual reference, expecting commuters to mentally figure out the direction using CW and ACW alone would probably be quite taxing and unintuitive for the average Joe, especially nowadays when many people are more used to digital clocks and may not remember CW and ACW directions.

At least using “via” makes it clearer that the train is heading in a certain direction through a key station.

[u/jooferjupiter → u/Hopeful-Importance62]

the issue would be that not all maps are orientated geographically

if you go down to the platforms, the arrow on the map above the doors will always face clockwise. putting "ACW" next to a clockwise-facing map will create more confusion

[u/spacenglish → u/jooferjupiter]

Any reason why the arrow on the map above the doors always face clockwise?

[u/jooferjupiter → u/spacenglish]

no idea, one day they woke up and decided to flip the maps

originally the maps were geographically orientated though. would have been easier to figure out CW and ACW

[u/flopp-the-blackmidi → u/jooferjupiter]

it's to align with the direction the trains are physically seen to travel in. as SG is left handed in chirality, the train at the left of you will always be departing in the forward direction relative to you. hence, the arrow on the maps has to be clockwise facing regardless of actual geographical train direction for it to face forward relative to the reader

[u/Embarrassed-Memory97 → u/Hopeful-Importance62]

Agree, if a layman do not refer to the System Map, they would not understand where this AC/ACW come from. People is much more aware of the closes surrounding around them e.g next to Paya Lebar is MacPherson or Dakota which is toward Promenade. So they wld immediate sense the direction.

Just some ideas for the platform digital screen:

Message for full loop train: via MacPherson (Loop Service), via Promenade (Loop Service)

Message for terminating train: via MacPherson (ends at "Station Name"), via Promenade (ends at Dhoby Ghaut)

Message for terminating train if the end station is next to the current station: ends at "Station Name" 

Just an example?

[u/Designer-grammer]

honestly they gave up already

look at that clusterfuck of letters and arrows it’s so confusing still

[u/pockypockylawl]

lol now i just commute with muscle memory

[u/mrfoxesite-2377]

What is the paper one?