[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Howcanimakemore]

[u/Yeshua_shel_Natzrat]

What the Founders did intend was for the Constitution to be changeable and for the people to have ultimate power in the land, precisely so that the people could choose to update and expand the values that the USA was founded on to include more people and affect greater equality and freedom, because they knew that would be an inevitability. Thomas Jefferson even wrote that the Constitution should be updated every 20 years to keep up with the updated sensibilities of the common public with each generation, to not be permanently bound by the sensibilities of the past.

[u/desperateorphan → u/Yeshua_shel_Natzrat]

I do agree with the intent to update but completely disagree with them wanting greater equality or freedom. Zero shot they wanted anyone other than white landowning males to be able to have a say about anything. It took 85+ years for that ideal (long after all the original people had died) to get enough steam and it caused a civil war.

If the founders actually wanted freedom and equality they would have gone with it from the start and said fuck off to the racist south. They’d have let women be more than baby factories. They’d have let any one of color vote. And so on. But they didn’t. They were perfectly fine with slaves, the massacres of the natives and women being property.

I don’t think they should get so much credit for “equality and freedom” just because the ability to change it 100 years later was possible. Know what else was possible at the time? Overthrowing the government and writing a new one that would be able to change.

[u/errie_tholluxe → u/desperateorphan]

The Founders , just like modern politicians, where a bunch of people with varying ideas and identity (local, state) politics and the constitution reflects this showing in great depth how they had to compromise just to be able to get it done.

Some where upset with the bill of rights because they though it was common sense and didn't need to be written down. Others disagreed thankfully.

I am sure they fully expected updates to happen.

[u/desperateorphan → u/errie_tholluxe]

You’re missing the forest for the trees. Of course they knew it would be updated. They can have all the credit in the world for allowing it to change over time.

They don’t get credit for “expanding freedom and equality” when they didn’t do shit for that. If they cared about that at all it would have been in the first draft and not 85 years later after they all died and requiring a war. The facts are they compromised with a bunch of racist white supremacists on what or who is considered human. They compromised on who are allowed to have rights and they were perfectly fine with numerous generations of man being subjected to horrific conditions cause “they won’t agree to the union if we don’t let them have this one thing”.

Nah. Fuck them. Everything wrong with America stems from letting those racist white supremacist dick wads get away with everything before and after the civil war. Not punishing and squashing those asshats is exactly why we are in the shit we are today.

[u/PlutoJones42 → u/Yeshua_shel_Natzrat]

Instead we have a completely partisan Supreme Court making regressive rulings, and the conservative/republican agenda of fucking over literally everyone but the wealthy.