r/PantheonShow • u/Briaaanz • 8d ago
Discussion Maddie did to everybody what Stephen did to Caspian
It occurred to me that while Stephen tried to create a copy of himself by replicating and simulating his life events onto Caspian; Maddie attempted to recreate everybody thru countless simulations, replicating those earlier events
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u/JuiceBuddyG assume infinite amount of stir-fry 8d ago
Logorythms: (forcefully pushes a kid's life down their wanted path by grooming, manipulating, and outright abusing him, never consider him a real person, plan to kill him if he ever diverges)
Maddie: (makes billions of worlds and allows them to make their own choices without interference, leaves them to continue their lives untouched even though they don't serve her plans and eat up compute, considers them just as real as herself)
People on this sub, for some reason: Yeah this is the same thing
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u/Briaaanz 7d ago
Maddie had more access to creating/adjusting reality than Stephen did. Stephen could only hire actors and arrange some basic scenarios, Maddie created an entire universe that was as an exact scenario as she could generate. In order to reach the version of Caspian and her father she wanted, she had to create simulations of everyone else they were in contact with to lead the two of them to her hoped for destination.
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u/Boring_A55_Binch 7d ago
She doesn’t create those specific people herself, though. Whether they come to exist or not is entirely up to how the sim turns out, and out of billions only ten came close to the history Maddie remembered. Each sim starts from like. The beginning of the universe.
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u/Briaaanz 7d ago
How is what she did any real difference to what Stephen was attempting tho?
I just don't see free will being a defining difference. Both were attempting to recreate individuals by manufacturing scenarios to do so. Both kept the subjects in the dark while the attempt was being made.
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u/Boring_A55_Binch 7d ago
Free will is the defining difference. Caspian was robbed of that, these people are not. If he tried to do something different Pope and his lackeys would’ve forcefully pushed him back on the path they wanted. With Maddie’s sims, what happens to the people in them is a consequence of THEIR actions, not events that are PRE-DETERMINED by someone else. She lets the sims that have diverted from her history play out anyway.
The nudges she gives when she intervenes still leaves room for the people in the sim to act differently.
Since you’ve established you don’t see free will as a valid factor here, we’ll probably never come to an agreement on this.
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u/JuiceBuddyG assume infinite amount of stir-fry 7d ago
She did not generate that specific scenario. She specifically says that she couldn't interfere much if at all, "push too hard and it all goes away". She made billions of sims because that's what it took to eventually get one where the people within it actually decided to make the choices they did in her original timeline
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u/Briaaanz 7d ago
Stephen didn't have access to the power and resources that Maddie did and had to operate in a much shorter timeframe.
Maddie had to tweak things to arrange as similar conditions as possible to arrive at the classroom starting point, so yeah, she did generate that specific scenario.
If she just set up the physics on day one of the big bang and then played the Deists' Clockmaker (built the clock mechanism that is the Cosmos, wound it up and then walked away), she would never reach the classroom. A molecule out of place a million years earlier would be the equivalent of a butterfly flapping it's wings and generating a hurricane in a different part of the world.
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u/JuiceBuddyG assume infinite amount of stir-fry 7d ago
Which is why I believe she didn't A) start at the big bang, nor B) run it from the very beginning every time. I believe that the most functional way to run the Dyson sphere to get her timeline under the stated assumption that trying to actually control events made everything break was to use save states, essentially. Run the sim up to a decision point, then make a bunch of copies until you get one that of its own accord follows the "correct" path, then make copies of that one, so on and so forth. Much faster than brute forcing it, still allows for free will without some invisible god forcing you down a path you didn't choose yourself
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u/prettygirlgoddess 8d ago
allows them to make their own choices without interference
Maddie did interfere though. She sent David to the future after he already died, had him walk through the fabric of reality and step out of a hole in the sky, and then had him talk to Caspian to change the course of events. Maddie literally played god from her dyson sphere.
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u/JuiceBuddyG assume infinite amount of stir-fry 8d ago
And that is literally the one and only time she does that, and it was to save three people (including Dave by extension) who by their own words did not want to die. I'm not saying she's perfect, because the Problem of Evil is right there like a big angry cosmic tomato, but there is a massive ethical difference in the level of control exerted by Maddie vs Logorythms
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u/AlphaStudent 7d ago
Why is this not marked as a spoiler?
Just finished the series and am reading Reddit threads now. Please mark
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u/ConscientiousApathis 7d ago
This is a fair take (even though some people on this sub won't want to admit it).
During this scene her father specifically says that he wants to intervene, to which Maddie just says "it has to happen". She is a bit cold and distant during the whole thing, not even answering when asked how many times she has done this. You get this impression she's sort of beyond all of it, and it's hard to gauge how someone like that thinks.
Ultimately I'm kind of reminded of her words at the start of the season, that if people can keep reviving their loved ones as digital copies then no one would ever grow up. That's more or less what happened, Maddie did never grew up, and while it is a happy ending it it definitely feels greyer the longer you think about it.
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8d ago
Your right. Maddie is lowkey evil af. She didn't give a shit abt the pain she put so many people through just so she could get with her bf again. Oh, wait, her family gets special priority though, thats why she resurrected her son but let all the others die in safe surf's attack.
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u/n0tAtR0l1 8d ago
But to be fair she put the clones of herself and her family through the pain too no?
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u/yusufpalada 8d ago
The difference between her and Steven is that she never violated their free will. Their choices were their own
Even giving them pushes every now and again like what she did with Caspian and his conversation with David was not violating his free will because he was already going to make that decision. She was just speeding it up