r/MunsterRugby • u/Aggressive-Tackle-80 • 4d ago
Positives for next year
Im sick of all the negative talk about Munster
I am looking forward to next year
We have a big lump of a hooker in Marnus
Evan, Eogbo Conor Ryan, in the 2nd row.
Sean Edogbo, Ruaidhain Quinn, Gleeson, Foy
Ben o Donovan to keep progressing.
Tom Wood
It looks shit now but we have some really good talent coming through
SUAF
6
u/Little_Ad_9313 4d ago
Christian Foley & Jamie Conway entering the Academy looking at Bohan no reason some of these lad's cant kick on and get a few minutes.
Hopefully Ronan Foxe kicks on and can put his injury niggles behind him.
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u/Super-Astronaut-9056 4d ago
You're dead right but we have to get a front row that's competitive otherwise we'll be back here again next year , so strength in depth needed
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
That’s not going to happen tho.
We might get another break glass emergency signing at TH but that’s it.
1
u/Ok-Establishment1159 3d ago
Well what do we actually need? VDM will push the Barrons and give depth. Loughman, Milne and Josh is acceptable loosehead chart
All depends on TH really. There’s probably 10+ SA THs that would give us what we need alongside Aungier and Foxe. If we don’t get that we will be in trouble as you are relying on a TH depth chart with no evidence the lads can stay fit
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u/Dry-Attitude-673 4d ago
Hopefully they give extra places to players on that pbc team that won that schools World Cup , serious talent there
3
u/Longjumping-Guard609 3d ago
O’Connell looking good in second row. Nice addition to the squad if he continues to improve
It’s centre and back 3 that would worry me - there’s a desperate need for a quality 13 I think
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u/sleeperman43 4d ago
Edogbo and O'Connell/Ahern isn't a bad second row combo.We also produce good back row prospects.Not sure about centre-did someone say Gene O Leary Kareem had left the academy?Anyone else there? Unfortunately the front rowvas always is the problem area.
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u/cypressd12 3d ago
James O’Leary and Eoghan Smyth both look very promising, and then there’s Rob Carney who played 13 for the U20’s this year.
And jury is still out on Gordon Wood
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u/sleeperman43 3d ago
Is Gordon the centre rather than the OH?Some people seen to think there was a bit of nepotism going on with him getting into the Academy.
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u/cypressd12 3d ago
Gordon is the center, made his debut last week against the Lions. He’s very well rounded in his skillset but he’s not really exceptional in any specific area. Plus doesn’t look heavy/ bulky enough currently.
Getting him into the academy made sense because there is enough there to see the potential and let him develop.
What gave me a positive / hopefull feeling was seeing him being thrown in against the Lions at the last minute and him excelling in the defensive effort. If he can keep that up and add the workrate etc, there is still a future for him there.
But Tom is a (different but) bigger talent indeed.
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u/upadownpipe 4d ago
I'm also happy a bit of a look behind the curtain has happened with the ex players being on an X Factor style panel choosing their friends for coaching roles.
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u/acquiesced_pointer 3d ago
Biggest positive is we won’t have those horrible European shirts
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u/Rodinius 2d ago
Colour would’ve been good for a training kit. I actually like the jersey on myself, but for the whole team it looks very dull
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u/Psychological_Tea582 3d ago
is the third NIQ confirmed yet?
How will be the backup 10? is JJ contracted?
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u/jackthomson1992 3d ago
Anyone know a update on Ultan Dillane , he was heavily linked a few months back but heard nothing since . Think we could definitely do with him as JK is off
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u/pauli55555 D4 on Tour 4d ago
Agree with being positive but a lot of those were available this year and it wasn’t a good year.
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u/Aggressive-Tackle-80 4d ago
Next time you swap between accounts remember to swap profile descriptions.
The Bernard Jackman account that has recently being spamming the page has the same "D4 on Tour" moniker
Pure coincidence
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u/Windup-1014 The Brave & The Faithful 3d ago
Pretty sure the "D4 on Tour" is a flair the mods put on users to let people know they're not actual Munster fans.
I don't think anyone chooses to use that flair. There's a few with it who post regularly here.
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u/Aggressive-Tackle-80 3d ago
Ah I see
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u/Windup-1014 The Brave & The Faithful 3d ago
It's fairly funny that bernardjackman account got the D4 flair after just 3 days though lol.
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u/Any_Statement1742 3d ago
We had that talent this year too but chose to give a load of journeymen all the minutes and locked younger players out of team selection.
Why do people think it will be any different next year?
0
u/Beginning-Strain4660 2d ago
We need to start playing them!!!!!! Jesus Christ like
Ryan/ Foy has had no competitive game for example
If Kleyn did not get injured then no chance for Evan!
Here is an idea:
Keep picking ALL of the below week in And week out and expect something different:
Wycherley*2, Coombes, JOD, AAA
Don’t let Ryan or scannell retire we need their experience!!!!
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago edited 4d ago
There’s no point being positive just for the sake of being positive.
We only have a very finite amount of talent coming through in very few positions in the academy.
There are very few green shoots heading into the next year. And I can see things getting worse, much easier than I can see things getting better.
Kleyn is gone which takes even more weight out of the scrum and maul in what is already a seriously underpowered pack.
Beirne isnt getting any younger.
We have serious, serious issues in our back 3. We have the worst back 3 out of any of the provinces by a distance. Nash cant stay fit and has lost speed - and the rest of them are liabilities at Champions Cup level.
Our stock at tighthead going into next year is the worst it’s ever been.
Tom Farrell’s form in his first season has deserted him this season and considering his age I’d be fairly confident we have seen the best of him. We don’t have any 13 replacement for him. Hopefully Carney will come through in a few years.
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u/Rodinius 4d ago
No point in being negative for the sake of it either. You can be critical and optimistic
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago edited 4d ago
How can you say that im being negative for the sake of being negative when we have just been hockeyed in a URC quarter final.
After we got destroyed 45-0 to a bang average Sharks side.
After we got humiliated at bath.
Humiliated at Ravenhill.
Humiliated at the Dexcom.
Humiliated at Sandy Park.
Humbled against a bang average Castres team whom we made to look like the Harlem Globetrotters.
I could go on….never in my years as a Munster fan have I been so disillusioned and pessimistic about the future. I just can’t see things turning around any time soon.
This crop of players we have are just lame.
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u/Aggressive-Tackle-80 4d ago
In your years as a Munster fan or the 4days your duplicate profile is alive.
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u/jackthomson1992 4d ago
Yeah literally a troll account , all he does is slate the team and players , no point replying to the 🤡
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
Listen, if you want to be positive going into next year then fair play. I nearly commend you.
But I personally don’t see it. We have the worst squad of players we have ever had in the pro era and incremental budget cuts season on season means that that won’t change anytime soon.
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u/Rodinius 4d ago
You clearly don’t recall our squad in the early to mid 2010s
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
Yes I do. It was a lot better than this one. We can go through it if you want.
We got to 2 or 3 Euro semi finals in that period. And we’re very competitive in those semi finals.
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u/Rodinius 3d ago
I think we overachieved with that squad and are underachieving at the moment. Domestic and european rugby was also far less competitive on average then in my eyes
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 3d ago
Youre defo right on the last part. The quality of athlete and squad depth of the French top 14 sides and top English sides has gone through the roof over the last 3 years. They all just seem to have 3-4 tightheads and loosehead who can scrummage competently. A cohort of wingers who can run quick. And some random reserve scrum half who can ping place kicks over the bar from anywhere on the pitch.
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
In 2012 we had Kilcoyne, BJ Botha, Donnacha Ryan, Paulie, POM, James Coughlan, Murray, ROG, Laulala, Zebo, F Jones, Earls.
I would bite your hand off for that now.
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u/Rodinius 3d ago edited 2d ago
Naming a single squad within the time frame mentioned isn’t much help, especially when many of those retired soon after
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u/Rodinius 4d ago
Because it’s a sports team. Munster’s issues are blindingly obvious. I don’t expect people to ignore them, but I’m a Munster fan, I’m not going to spend all my time shitting in the team. I can be optimistic despite it all, there’s not much point being a sports fan otherwise
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
Well you’re obviously a better person than me if you remain optimistic after all the shocking performances over the past 6 months, baffling selections and off pitch issues.
I actually forgot to mention that we got humiliated in Sandy Park in the Challenge Cup last 16 - the challenge cup last 16!
Kudos to you.
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u/Rodinius 4d ago
Despite it all, we managed to get into the playoffs, qualify for Europe, be the 2nd best province over the course of the year, and beat Leinster once. It’s not all doom and gloom
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago
I think it is all doom and gloom.
The players look underpowered, slow and seriously lacking quality. And I can’t see any answers to that.
I’ll still watch every game but we have shipped 6 massive defeats this season. Usually it’s one or two per season. I can see us getting hockeyed 8 times next season and 10 the year after.
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u/cypressd12 4d ago
So a few things you are lining up here don’t make sense.
With Aungier out tighthead stocks look more reliable already, let’s hope we can add Jager and Salanoa to it, but if not a replacement will be added. You are also underestimating the impact of Marnus Van der Merwe as a force at hooker, the scrum is more than the sum of it’s parts.
Kleyn’s off but ever since we knew he was off to Gloucester he only really showed us knockons. The ballast he brings will be replaced by Edwin mostly, combined with a more leaner/ athletic lock.
Beirne won’t play all that much, but that’s not much of a difference to this season. Luckily he is in a position where we do have quality and depth.
We don’t have a 13? Nanks today was arguably our best player, and Kelly has done great as well.
No green shoots? Wood and Sean E already impressed and we have an important playmaking core in the Irish U20’s. If anything we lack a bit of experience even.
Our back three might lack pace, the hope is that the new attacking system post Prendergast will simplify things and focus more on the core strength of Kilgallen and McCarthy (who were both resigned for a reason). Which would mean we two pretty fast wingers again, wou had a faulty system this season. Add in Daly and a young BOC and you have two more allrounders added.
Don’t be too gloom eitherW
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u/bernardjackman23 . D4 on Tour 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thanks for the reply but sorry I am gloom.
Aungier is a bog standard player. 4th choice at Leinster and 3rd at choice at Connacht. He really doesn’t inspire me with any hope. Jager and Salanoa should both already be retired - the situations with both of them have gone well beyond the point of insanity.
I agree re Kleyn. He has been poor, error prone or injured over the last 24 months. But he still added power to the maul and scrum, and was very effective at rucking and tackling in the tight. You really need two powerful TH locks, particularly as Edwin fades after 50 minutes. F Wycherly, E O Connell C Ryan and Ahern are all too lightweight to replace him. F Wycherly does my head in at defensive maul time - he is so ineffective and headless there. There’s a reason Munster offered Kleyn a one year extension and worryingly we haven’t brought in a replacement after he declined.
I would disagree that we have quality or depth at lock. In my mind, Ahern is our most talented loosehead lock but he is far too lightweight in the tight. And should be a 6 going forward. I hope that E O Connell kicks on.
The green shoots i was referring to were T Wood, Barrett, O Donavan, S Edogbo, Marnus and B Gleeson. Crowley, Nanks, and Beirne are also also great but besides that im not happy. Like where was Hodnett today honestly? He gets completely demolished and is so ineffective agaisnt bigger packs - you may as well just leave him on the wing agaisnt bigger teams because Thats the only place he gets any success.
I am a huge fan of Tom Wood, his passing game is exquisite. But what is to say that next year that he won’t be stuck playing third fiddle behind Hanrahan again.
Huge on Sean Edogbo also - but what is to say that we won’t hamper his development. JOD has signed a contract extension and I can see him getting more minutes than S Edogbo again next season. The guy needs to be backed and played week in week out like Bryn Ward up in Ulster - but im not sure that he will.
Sorry - I was presuming that Nankivell would be a 12 going forward. But that could be an option with Nankivell at 13 and hopefully Eoghan Smyth steps us next year. Gordon Wood i think has a bit about him too - he looks quite promising. And I don’t rate Dan Kelly at all unfortunately. Ever since the Ireland A game Ive really noticed how average he is. He tries bloody hard, but he rarely gets much change in contact, his passing is very off and he is at sea defensively. Anytime he has played outside Nankivell, he has completely botched his spacings and let players waltz through untouched.
Is our game plan that complicated ? We certainly had a much more expansive, sophisticated attack when Prendergast was coaching under Rowntree. We only seem to have one move off first phase attack which has been rinsed and repeated to little effect all season. Front door ball from Casey to Nankivell, back door ball from Nankivell out to Crowley, Crowley pass across to Nash on an angle ie running down a blind alley.
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u/Finnegan7921 Gavin Coombes 4d ago
Penciling Edogbo in for Kleyn is a bit premature. Kleyn was usually very durable, Edogbo is the exact opposite. He picks up injury after injury.
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u/cypressd12 4d ago
True, but the point currently was providing mass in the second row. Edogbo has that plenty.
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u/cypressd12 4d ago
Same my man.
Also think there was a lot of very unfair criticism, mainly towards MAA who did admirably and was of great worth in securing Champions Cup in the first place.
EOC proved he can do this, we have some talent who will be better next year in Clein, Foxe and Conor Ryan. Sean & Edwin Edogbo are established now, Gleeson and Quinn will only get better.
In the back we finally found the stand-in for Casey and we know we have talent in Wood, O’Shea, O’Leary and Smyth. Plus who knows what someone like Gordon Wood or Shay McCarthy can still bring? Not to mention BOC who played a lot more this season.
Aungier and Marnus VdM will straighten the scrum a bit, but we’ll need clarity on Jager and Salanoa so we can find another prop if needed.
But on one of the worst season we had on and off the field we still ended up above Ulster and Connacht and only one win behind Leinster. We went to Loftus missing 10 starting players and showed we can cut them open, but the most important message is: We will be back to fight next season!