2/M looking to join

[u/WitcherFan2020]

Hey all, I'm currently with AMO however due to internal issues with the union and how it's looking to go downhill, I'm looking at switching to MSC for job security.

I've been in talks with a recruiter, and just wanted it fact checked. He's giving me the same numbers that the CIVMAR website is giving: 184k a year, 4 months on, 2 months off. And being a recruiter, of course he's saying that 2 months off is guaranteed now, and that it's very rare to be overdue unless you're a rescue swimmer. He's also saying I could get directly hired into 2/M, instead of starting at 3rd.

What are the actual income numbers I'd be looking at and is the 4on/2off rotation actually happening? Is there also a chance to be hired in as a Cargo 2nd, and not the Navigation 2nd? Last time I talked to anyone from MSC, I was a cadet and my 3rd and 2nd mates had been on board for over 8 months.

I know pay is entirely based on the type of ship. I'd expect to be assigned to a T-AO or T-AKE, due to having a Tankerman PIC, and away from the lower paid ships like the Zeus because I don't have DP.

[u/TheScallywag1874]

I'm a current 2nd Mate with MSC. Here's the info you are looking for...

I'm a SAR Swimmer, so I will factor that out of my pay for your sake.

My last three paychecks, minus SAR pay, were $13,072, $12,019 (I took 5 days of leave for my GF to join me while our ship was docked in Guam), and $14,476, gross pay.

I'm on an AKE, and we currently have ammo onboard. This adds ~$500 p/paycheck as a 2nd mate.

As of the end of April, here are the published overdue numbers for 2nd mates in the fleet;

5 2nd mates overdue: One of which was just relieved on his 53rd day overdue. The next longest overdue 2nd is 29 days past their relief date.

Not great, but a marked improvement from the more recent post-covid days.

You do in fact have the ability to be relieved at 60 days overdue, even if there is no relief for you. Captains have been very supportive of this, from my experience, but honestly, it isn't much of an issue anymore (from what I've seen).

If you are overdue between 1-45 days, you collect an extra $38 a day ($1,140 p/mo). From 45 days + it jumps up to $78 ($2,340 p/mo).

My overall take, MSC has made significant improvements ever since they passed legislation in 2023 (implemented in 2024). Shoreside is the most challenging aspect to work with, and a lot of that is because there is a lot of government bureaucracy (i.e., paperwork). You need to stay on top of that. If you can manage that, it isn't that awful to work with them. But those who have never worked in the government tend to be surprised by the inefficiencies.

The other aspect to be aware of if you join MSC, is the Navy side of the work. You're not just a Navigator or Cargo Mate. You need to learn to work with and "speak" navy shit. There will be a learning curve to this, so expect that.

To your last question regarding Cargo versus Nav role...usually you'll start as a Nav and then go to Cargo (not mandatory, but this is usually how it plays out). Most people like the cargo role better (I'm not one of them, but I'm odd apparently). Since you've worked on an MSC contracted ship, you might adjust to these things faster than others. Requesting the Cargo role is something you can discuss with your detailer (scheduler) if/when hired.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!

[u/WitcherFan2020 → u/TheScallywag1874]

I appreciate the in-depth answer. Thanks for taking out SAR pay, I considered it, then saw the requirement for the timed run, and I haven't made that time in almost 10 years now. You get your paychecks every 2 weeks right? So that's like 25-26k a month? Only about 1k less than the 2nd mate makes on my ship, so not bad.

I was looking at AKE or AO; my cadet shipping was on the Byrd and I enjoyed it a lot.

The government is the government. We deal with the bureaucracy in the CONMAR world too, mostly with funding and ship schedules, and it's not fun when they slash our OT in half with no heads up.

How is your relationship with the 4on/2off schedule? I've been married for about 5 years now, and we're both worried that the schedule is going to be a problem, especially when if I'm overdue, and still given only 2 months off at the end.

[u/TheScallywag1874 → u/WitcherFan2020]

It's a fairly new relationship for me, so time will tell. But I know I will have to choose at some point...the job, or her. Even if I was working even time, she'd want me there more regularly. But every couple is different. You do have to get creative with planning vacations. I have three plans at any given time. But for me, that is an acceptable tradeoff, but for a significant other...well, I can't answer that.

If you are overdue though, another nice change that MSC made, is you get additional leave at 1/2 the time. So if you are two weeks overdue, you get an additional week of shore leave. Lastly, I'm not sure where you live, but if you live near Norfolk or San Diego, you will also be required to do some shoreside training every now and then (requalifying on small arms, etc.). These classes are easy, and for me, it's like a little paid vacation. You wife could always join you for these trainings as well. So two months of vacation, plus some shore side training. I'm usually off the ship for at least three months between hitches when I count this time as well. Something to consider.