2/M looking to join

[u/WitcherFan2020]

Hey all, I'm currently with AMO however due to internal issues with the union and how it's looking to go downhill, I'm looking at switching to MSC for job security.

I've been in talks with a recruiter, and just wanted it fact checked. He's giving me the same numbers that the CIVMAR website is giving: 184k a year, 4 months on, 2 months off. And being a recruiter, of course he's saying that 2 months off is guaranteed now, and that it's very rare to be overdue unless you're a rescue swimmer. He's also saying I could get directly hired into 2/M, instead of starting at 3rd.

What are the actual income numbers I'd be looking at and is the 4on/2off rotation actually happening? Is there also a chance to be hired in as a Cargo 2nd, and not the Navigation 2nd? Last time I talked to anyone from MSC, I was a cadet and my 3rd and 2nd mates had been on board for over 8 months.

I know pay is entirely based on the type of ship. I'd expect to be assigned to a T-AO or T-AKE, due to having a Tankerman PIC, and away from the lower paid ships like the Zeus because I don't have DP.

[u/notyourbudddy]

Job security doesn’t exist anymore for any regular working class American. Military Sealift Command definitely isn’t an exception to that rule.

Our Collective Bargaining Agreement was just thrown out the window, the news disseminated to CIVMARs via email. (I don’t know if that decision is going to stick for good.) And we’ve had unprecedented government shutdowns recently, plus all those government employee layoffs and budget cuts to other agencies not far behind us.

You’ll be a probationary employee for one year during some of the rockiest times to be a federal employee. And even if we are insulated from a lot of recent bs in the name of “national security,” idk if it’s worth playing their game.

[u/WitcherFan2020 → u/notyourbudddy]

I still have some time before I apply. I took some C/M upgrade courses with AMO, where I had to sign a contract to work a certain amount of days with them after completing the class. So if I do apply, it'll be more like late 2027.

[u/notyourbudddy → u/WitcherFan2020]

I don’t understand why anyone would want to work for MSC, other than entry level applicants needing a foot in the industry or old military veterans wrapping up government service for a pension. Anyone else… go work somewhere more fulfilling. Any redeeming ship is contracted out. If you look at the CIVMAR MSC fleet, it’s just all the killing machines (minus the two hospital ships and some smaller vessels). Unless that’s your calling in life…? Swear some of the older licensed officers I’ve sailed with are dead in the eyes, like they just settled in their careers for the path of least resistance. The others are actually fucking crazy and would do whatever Uncle Sam tells them to do. Idk which is worse — sticking around out of apathy, or out of fanaticism.

[u/TheScallywag1874 → u/notyourbudddy]

Well, that's your take, and you're entitled to your opinion...even if it's wrong ;)

Here is my take...

MSC has FAR more job security than any commercial outfit. It isn't bullet proof, but if OP is looking for more job security, he is safest with MSC.

I initially got my license to work on cruise ships. But then I learned about MSC while at SUNY Maritime. It was a good deal in my opinion, so I joined. If I didn't go MSC, I would have gone cruise ships, as I do love them. Nearly three years later, I have very much enjoyed MSC, and continue to do so. I can confidently say that I would enjoy cruise ships more, purely based on job satisfaction. But when you compare the pay difference, and I'm making more than your average cruise ship captain, MSC is the clear overall winner for me.

With MSC, I like the fact that I'm not working just for a company's bottom line. MSC has a larger function / purpose. Politics aside, I'm happy to support my country, and I find that more fulfilling than working for a corporation. To each their own, however, if that isn't your take.

Additionally, the officers that I have worked with, generally have all been great people. People who have that thousand yard stare, would have it regardless which company, ship, or job they worked for.

Like I said, that's my take.

[u/notyourbudddy → u/TheScallywag1874]

I have a bad taste in my mouth for MSC largely because my first ship was based in the 5th fleet. I was on that ship for six months, went through the Strait of Hormuz plenty, and been to a few of the ports that have been bombed recently during the U.S.-instigated war. Affected are shipyard workers I’ve maybe interacted with… and who worked on behalf of their country as allies to repair USNS vessels. Now the U.S. turns a blind eye and doesn’t acknowledge their losses. (I also refused orders to a ship that I believe is now in the 5th fleet… why tf would I go help them bomb people who don’t need bombing?)

The war again fucks over our global allies by destabilizing their economies and threatening food production with less oil circulating. Personally, I’d be so fucking embarrassed to step foot in a foreign port rn coming off an MSC ship, reeking of the Navy’s bullshit. But so many CIVMARs I’ve sailed with just see these ports as their playground, “politics aside.”

One of the AOEs reportedly resupplied that aircraft carrier that bombs the little Iranian girls school.

I’ve talked to one of the MSC sailors in a contract hotel after the Venezuelan invasion, listened to him boasting about being part of that in whatever way.

The USN is running an embargo against Cuba, my heritage, and killing my people.

I’m not an expert on any of this, but my gut feeling is that yall are turning your head as long as your pockets stay filled. I don’t believe anything we do currently is part of any greater picture of maintaining global peacekeeping, or even national security considering the recklessness of our recent foreign involvements.

I’m not anti-America or anything btw. I’d be out there without a second thought if I thought the cause was good.

[u/TheScallywag1874 → u/notyourbudddy]

I hear ya. My first ship was 7 months in 5th fleet going to all of those same ports. I'm sure our experience is very aligned. I don't agree with this war, nor the administration. I don't support war in general. I respect your position, even if I don't fully agree on how you arrived at your conclusions.

If you aren't anti-American, then how far back do you go to not support America and it's actions that you don't agree with? Do you stop paying taxes? Because your tax dollars are funding these actions. My question is rhetorical.

My point, the US has always had controversial actions overseas, and at home. And so has every other country to exist today. Human nature dictates that we need a military for when diplomacy fails. Some administrations make me more proud to be an American than others. But lets be blunt, T*ump isn't America. I'm not about to derail my career because I don't agree with a politician's policies. I will do my job until the moment I receive an unlawful order, because that is the commitment I made to the Constitution of the United States...not the POTUS.

[u/notyourbudddy → u/TheScallywag1874]

At least there are some sane people still in the fleet. I have a Religious Accommodation request in to work around my beliefs (i.e., not be a bomb courier), but that’ll likely get rejected and I’ll just resign completely. There are plenty of other mariner jobs that support our nation and its citizens without any of this mental gymnastics.