r/Hozier • u/gingergeorgie • 11d ago
Most poetic lyrics?
I'm teaching my Year 9 class Unseen Poetry at the moment and so far it has just been a fantastic opportunity to shoehorn in my favourite non-conventional literature.
I'd love to create an activity where they annotate a part of a Hozier song.
Any ideas? So far I've considered Talk (potentially inappropriate/unseen element might depend on a lot of prior knowledge about Greek mythology) and Abstract (Psychopomp) - just because I love the song.
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u/jilecsid513 11d ago
"Eat Your Young" is poetic and critiques war and capitalistic greed at the expense of younger generations, which I think young people would heavily resonate with.
Also, "Blood Upon The Snow" is also a great poetic song and discusses the beautiful fragility and brutality of nature and survival.
Love this idea, good luck to you! I hope your class finds this fun and interesting, I know I would
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u/DocAilur 10d ago
Blood upon the snow is actually a fairly good suggestion. Couple that shit with Call of the Wild and you have yourself a party.
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u/claudiafaceoff 11d ago
Sometimes I think I owe my life
To flowers that were left here by my mother
Ain’t that like them, gifting life to us again?
This life lived mostly underground
Unknowing either sight nor sound
Til reaching up to sunlight
Just to be ripped out by the stem
Sensing only know it’s dying
Drying out then drowning blindly
Blooming forth its every colour
In the moments it has left
To share the space with simple living things
Infinitely suffering
But fighting off like all creation
The absence of itself
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u/Happy-Rule-5113 11d ago
I always love the fact that he follows up this beautiful, brilliant prose with just a simple “anyways”
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u/claudiafaceoff 10d ago
It’s almost infuriating, like “don’t ‘anyway’ me; you know what you just did!”
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u/Adventurous-Mall7677 11d ago
I think “Unknown” is quite poetic, and—other than the deepest level of Dante’s hell being completely frozen—doesn’t rely heavily on specific literary references.
Plus, I think kids that age generally feel unknown/do a lot of yearning/are often let down by people they’ve idealized.
It’s also “clean,” in case parents might object. :)
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u/Jealous_Attorney6871 11d ago
I love "each day you'd rise with me, knowing I would gladly be the Icarus to your certainty" from sunlight
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u/RhubarbJam1 11d ago
Swan Upon Leda. It’s so full of mythology and loaded imagery.
This is a really good breakdown of the song in the Harvard Crimson: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2022/11/1/hozier-swan-upon-leda-single-cover-art-review/
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u/DocAilur 11d ago
It's a fantastic use of mythology as metaphor, with one of his strongest messages. It's a great example of broad themes being loaded with brutal precision as well. Definitely second this suggestion.
I'm not even sure why the other person is responding like that, because victims of oppression and abuse are exactly why these sorts of anayses are important to do. If we can never discuss the problem, the problem will never be addressed.
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u/Adventurous-Mall7677 11d ago
Yes, but making a 14-year-old assault victim read and analyze a song/poem among others in a classroom is NOT why this sort of poem is important.
It’s important for victims to have access to literature that reflects their experience, should they choose to seek it out; it is NOT compassionate to spring it on them and make them try to detach themselves enough to dispassionately discuss rape in front of their teenaged peers in the classroom, or to have to listen to their peers’ take on it, or to have to ask the teacher to give them an alternative assignment without explaining why.
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u/DocAilur 11d ago edited 10d ago
The lyrics aren't directly about rape in the first place, so this point is quite odd.
The lyrics are about men controlling women's bodies, reproductive rights. Do I think 14 year old assault victims need to hear that there are people in the world who want them to have futures where they have autonomy over their own bodies? I would hope so. Do 14 year old boys need to learn the concept of respecting women's choice? Yes, yes they do.
This is why we have literature courses, to both improve cultural literacy and make people aware of experiences outside of themselves. To have such a narrow focus here reflects a larger problem, it's a flattening of a topic into a nonsensical straw man. Ironically, the same tactics people often use when trying to deny human rights.
You've demonstrated exactly why this type of writing is important to analyze. Why difficult topics cannot be ignored.
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u/Adventurous-Mall7677 10d ago edited 10d ago
It literally starts off with a crying child giving birth, her husband (who may or may not be the person who impregnated her) standing outside the door. So regardless of its broader message about women’s medical autonomy and the historical colonization of women’s bodies, it starts off with a raped kid.
Look, I LOVE this song. Love it. But you don’t get to decide what triggers a child victim (young teens are children!) and a classroom is not the place to find out. They’re a captive audience, surrounded by peers and an adult who’s not a mental health professional, and PTSD is complicated. There are trained professionals who know how to use literature to help victims process their trauma on a case-by-case basis as part of their personalized therapy, and kids should (obviously) be free to seek out the literature they feel they’re ready to deal with on their own, but OP is not the person to make this choice for them.
OP is asking what would be appropriate for a group of grade 9, and was already hesitant about “Talk” simply because of its lightly-suggestive content—“Swan Upon Leda” is less appropriate for the classroom, not more.
ETA: I was a TA for a high school honors English teacher for four years, then did social work with homeless kids for two years, and I’m married to a psychiatrist with a child/teen specialization. I’m all about women’s autonomy, I’m all about kids being informed, I’m all about child victims getting help.
But if a teacher decides their kids need to have a discussion about reproductive rights, the way to do it is within a civics discussion framework—not springing a poem featuring a crying child rape victim on them in English class. One of the BEST things about Hozier’s music/poetry is its raw emotional immediacy and intensity—something a child victim wouldn’t have to deal with in a civics class discussion.
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u/DocAilur 10d ago edited 10d ago
None of this argues against what I said. Yes, rape is implied, but it is not directly about rape. It is about something broader. This argument is not good faith from you.
You don't get to decide what triggers a victim either. You don't get to decide what limits to place on their lives. The other person doesn't get to project onto every person. The damage it does to a person to be a victim that can't even speak about it, who is perpetually messaged shame for being associated with a "no no" topic is the other side of the coin. But guess what, every child doesn't react that way. Every victim is unique. And the way we respond matters.
I think erasure is far more dangerous than singular discomforts. I think erasure is far more harmful socially as well. But I care about the future being better and people healing instead of being tortured in stagnation.
I will never advocate for the invisibility of victims and social wrongs. I will always advocate the education system make wrongs visible so the people of the future can be better.
And I really will not continue this discussion with someone who cannot argue in good faith.
Edit to add: people with credentials not knowing stigma and social aversion is one of the largest factors in the harm sexual violence does is deeply concerning for the education system as a whole. It is not a magic wound, it is a horrific wound we all should be driven to heal and prevent. Support each other, people. Choose kindness, because erasure, censorship, and projection are not prosocial choices. They perpetuate harm.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 11d ago
It’s also named after a mythological r*pe, so maybe not. It’s super triggering to me now at 37 and at 15 it would have completely ruined me.
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u/RhubarbJam1 11d ago
Right, but, so much of history and mythology is also about that subject or similar subjects that subjugate women. I highly disagree with the current climate of trigger warnings for absolutely everything under the sun and subjects we’re not allowed to speak of because it might “trigger” someone. If we don’t talk about rape or the fall of Roe vs Wade and what is happening to women’s rights in the current political climate, it’s just going to get worse. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, but, don’t expect everyone else to shove subjects like this into a dark corner and forget about them.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 11d ago
I am literally a rape survivor. If a teacher had tried to force me to analyze sexual violence in ninth grade, I would have ended up in the hospital. There are a vast number of other songs that won’t send a high school freshmen into a tailspin. In school, you often don’t actually have the choice to just not read it. 9th graders are not adults. They don’t get to make many of their own choices. Sexual violence is a part of life that does need to be talked about. But as part of English class in high school? Nah. English teachers are not equipped to deal with the fallout of that and neither are school counselors. I know this from experience and from my education earning my degree to be a school counselor.
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u/RhubarbJam1 11d ago
I’m sorry you went through that, truly, but, using your logic is a slippery slope. This would cut out vast quantities of literature, music, opera and poetry, Shakespeare included.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 11d ago
…for 9th grade students in school as an assignment. If they want to read it, they can Google it! Your attitude of trigger warnings suck is INCREDIBLY dangerous to those of us who actually have CPTSD. It isn’t MY logic that sucks.
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u/RhubarbJam1 11d ago
I never once said trigger warnings “sucked” or that your logic “sucks”. That’s 100% you projecting your own assumptions onto my statement.
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u/gemini_time 11d ago
I, Carrion (Icarian) is my favorite recommendation 💗
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u/DocAilur 10d ago
I think this is a good choice too. My second thought after Swan Upon Leda. We have a super commonly referenced myth, symbolism, even that homophone pun to play with.
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u/ShirtNo5276 10d ago
People have thankfully already mentioned the second verses of First Time, which is some of the most beautiful writing I've ever seen.
I think you could get great analysis out of Through Me. The imagery and symbolism is vivid enough to be understood by anyone, and it seems culturally relevant to study a poem about individual pain being a point of connection rather than isolation and how to process personal and global grief.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 11d ago
FWIW I STRONGLY disagree with the person who suggested SUL. My M.A.Ed. Is in School Counseling and I am a r@pe survivor. You do not get paid enough to deal with that potential fallout and you haven’t been trained to deal with what happens if a r@pe survivor is sitting in that class. And honestly? Depending on where you live, neither have the school counselors.
I don’t believe that a song should be taught “just for funsies” when it could trigger or even completely dysregulate a literal child who has already been through horrific things. It’s me, I was the child. Hi.
If they want to google or go to the library and access those kinds of myths, that’s one thing. But requiring it as an assignment would feel really gross and ableist to me as someone with PTSD. Just my two cents.
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u/jilecsid513 10d ago
Hi, Im also a rape survivor and Im currently working to become a grief and bereavement counselor. I understand why you feel so strongly about this, in fact you seem quite triggered right now, and I dont mean to say that disrespectfully. But I dont think anyone wants a fight about this beautiful song, I think theyre simply, calmly disagreeing with you. Im sure OP will weigh both sides. Its all good!
I would say that both of you have important points to make. What you've been saying has merit to it, its so important we protect our young people and safeguard their wellbeing. Many kids dont get a choice in what content they consume, so its important that we're mindful of what we assign. (Although, throughout all of my schooling from preschool to gradschool, I and my classmates have been able to opt out of triggering assignments if needed, so that is a possibility for others as well.)
BUT, the other side's argument has merit as well. For instance, did you know Harvard did 2 studies on trigger warnings? They showed that trigger warnings do not actually help trauma survivors prepare for distressing content, and fail to relieve anxiety. In fact, they may even cause harm as they can reinforce the trigger response, and the belief that one is vulnerable to future traumas. Additionally, these topics are definitely important to discuss with young people, and many teens are eager to have these deeper, more meaningful discussions, partly because they directly affect them and their futures. And finally, the song Swan Upon Leda doesnt really focus on rape itself, but rather on political/social discourse surrounding womens bodies and rights. OP doesnt seem to be planning to assign the whole song; they could select a portion of lyrics which are appropriate and non-triggering, and still be able to have those important discussions. That'd be a win-win.
Anyhow, I hope you spend some time doing something relaxing today, maybe listen to your favourite Hozier songs! We're all clearly passionate about his work, and Im sure OP will pick something great for their class.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 10d ago
Hi! I was, in fact, triggered. Not by the song this time, but by the person who valued their own opinion more than a literal child’s safety.
I was not spinning out about a beautiful song. I was and am upset about people who are presumably adults suggesting that a teacher create a flashback factory for children and then acting like my concern is the problem.
Violation is the organizing metaphor of SUL. The entire structure of the song is about violation.
The issue to me isn’t “is this a beautiful, powerful song,” or “should we have conversations about sexual violence?” It’s “is it ethical to force 14-year-olds to sit through an extended rape metaphor for a grade when you know some of them have lived it?”
I appreciate your shared information about trigger warnings and will look into that further.
I can tell you from my experience that they are helpful to me because they let me make informed decisions about whether I have the capacity to experience hearing or reading about whatever the trigger warning is about. It’s not about anxiety for me, it’s about consent and choice. Both of which, I hope we can agree, even children should have.
I appreciate you expressing your opinions clearly and without attacking.
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u/jilecsid513 10d ago
Well, I wasnt meaning to imply that the song itself had triggered you, nor that you were "spinning out over a beautiful song," I hope I was more respectful than that. I have autism and I tend to use very precise language to avoid confusion like this, sorry if I wasnt clear enough.
Ultimately, its probably better to use a different song altogether. I do personally feel Swan Upon Leda could work for this assignment in a way that isnt unethical, I dont think its as black and white as you seem to feel it is. But I understand and appreciate your vehement concern for other traumatized individuals, its clear you're very passionate about their wellbeing and protection.
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u/Majestic_Ad6155 10d ago
I am AuDHD so we are just different flavors of neurospicy 😂 I hope you enjoy the rest of your day!
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u/Mysterious-Basil3245 11d ago
Talk is worth it they can handle it. Plus it's my favorite! I wrote this one that might qualify too 😋
Spelling Shambhala
Rally cries from the crystal ball's eye, Shockwaves reverberate through the pineal. Never late, nor early but precisely on time, the wizard arrives to unwind the dreamcatcher cursing too many with too menial
Power has no legs, When the kneeling weeper begs For pieces of the road Paved to perdition. Conveniently it sits On the weeper's want for wit, And Truth becomes the paradigm for prison.
Questions raise their hands At the precipice of singularity, No longer a quotient of quotidian. Thoughts are fed with #3 Red, Dyeing matter that holds mindful oblivion.
Honored guests, coerced to rehearse and confess, Late for the sky, telling lies became an epidemic As if we don't know the way to Shangri-La As if the poor have no power, And injustice isn't systemic.
Do not weep like the beggar For pieces of road paved by power to hell. You're the guest of this world, And the good wizard knows It's a privilege to feel the power of truths bell
Directions transcribed on tenement walls For the eye of one who sees; 'Mashallah.' By teachers whispering the lyrics to "Everybody Pays," While prophets offer us a way To reclaim the idea of Shambhala.
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u/dynosaurrr 11d ago
talk is a pretty sexual/sensual song that wouldnt be at all appropriate for year 9, which is 13-14 year olds.
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u/Mysterious-Basil3245 10d ago
In what way? Show me where he says anything inappropriate. The best teachers excel at these things.That's exactly the age things should be talked about.
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u/Unlikely_Film_955 10d ago
So far I haven't seen recommendations for To Someone From a Warm Climate. Each verse works as a standalone poem, and they work very well for comparison with each other. Then there's "I wish I could say the rivers of my arms had found the ocean, and I wish I could say the cold lake water of my heart, Christ, it's boiling over." I sit and ponder that refrain on a regular basis.
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u/sssmac 11d ago
I agree with some others that songs referring to rape are probably not the choice for required reading/analysis. I personally think First Light or I, Carrion would be really great choices. Abstract is also one of my very favorite songs, but also it makes me cry. Not necessarily bad, but worth considering.
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u/EvenTallerTree 8d ago
First Time is incredibly poetic especially:
These days I think I owe my life
To flowers that were left here by my mother
Ain't that like them, gifting life to you again
This life lived mostly underground
Unknowing either sight nor sound
'Til reaching up for sunlight
Just to be ripped out by the stem
Sensing only now it's dying
Drying out then drowning blindly
Blooming forth its every colour
In the moments it has left
To share the space with simple living things
Infinitely suffering
But fighting off like all creation
The absence of itself
Anyway
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u/Shetheysthrowaway 11d ago
Hear me out, I know it’s not as popular of a song, but Butchered Tongue is a perfect candidate for this activity! Such gorgeous prose that the music fully takes a backseat!