r/HOTDGreens • u/No-Statement-8317 • 20h ago
Sara Hess & Orange is the New Black
Has anyone on this sub watched OITNB? I looked up which episodes had been written by Hess, and for those who are familiar with the show, it does explain quite a bit of her work on HOTD
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u/22RatsInATrenchcoat Certified Viserys hater 19h ago
I actually dropped OITNB because of her plotline with a guard raping an inmate. It was so terribly done and poisoned the rest for me
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u/No-Statement-8317 18h ago
What did you not like about that plotline? Not to say I did like it ofc, bit just curious
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u/22RatsInATrenchcoat Certified Viserys hater 18h ago
The show frames it as a misunderstanding, even though it's a violent scene where she actively struggles before being overpowered. And their relationship is romanticized, while he's treated like he just made a mistake and the audience is supposed to like him
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u/Bloodyjorts 17h ago
Yup. And it's not even just that the show frames it like this, Hess confirmed in a later interview that they viewed the rape as a misunderstanding.
It absolutely was not. I don't know WHY she keeps writing this same plot and characterizing it as just a misunderstanding.
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u/visaenya 20h ago
I watched it. I actually like OITNB, it’s quite funny. Also Sara wrote only 4 episodes out of 18 so far in HOTD, and is set to write 2 in season 3 (episode 2&3) People give her way more credit.
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u/JasonVoorhees95 20h ago edited 18h ago
It doesn't matter how many episodes she wrote, she became a showrunner in all but name after Condal had Miguel Sapchnik fired. She is credited as executive producer and appears in all behind the episode videos with Condal like showrunners usually do.
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u/visaenya 15h ago
Still, since she is NOT a showrunner, I will focus my criticism to Ryan Condal. At the end of the day, he is the sole showrunner as of season 2, her having that power while not being a showrunner is a Ryan’s issue. Also executive producer doesn’t mean anything, GRRM was a an EP and had no power to make changes, Ryan is an EP for AKOTSK and did not affect that show
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u/JasonVoorhees95 15h ago
Her being a showrunner in all but name is Ryan's fault, with that I agree. He shouldn't have hired and given that much power to someone who openely has said that she is uninterested in ASOIAF and that she thinks Fire and Blood is sexist.
I don't recall Ryan Condall appearing in every behind the episode for AKOTSK with Ira talking about their writing decisions, so the situation is different, Sarah is acting and speaking as a showrunner despite not getting the written credit.
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u/visaenya 15h ago
I get you, I agree I don’t like her ideas and I believe she fundamentally does not understand the story. However my point is, I personally choose to blame Ryan because as a showrunner and a “fan” of ASOIAF, it is his responsibility to control the writers room, and if one of the writers randomly inject their own bias or ideas that negatively affect the show and the themes, then he ultimately to me failed in his job in running the show —I really hope you understood my point but I totally understand being frustrated with her specifically.
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u/JasonVoorhees95 15h ago
Yeah, again I do agree Ryan is mainly at fault for hiring her and giving her that much power (and getting Sapochnik fired, and being dishonest towards GRRM, etc.)
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u/Bloodyjorts 18h ago
She was, according to Geeta Patel, able to make Aegon a rapist and add it to someone else's script. Patel credits Hess with writing that (along with the showrunners), not Shim, who actually wrote 1x08. Hess speaks about it like she was a major part of writing it.
I liked OITNB, too. I stopped watching after S4, the season where Pennsatuckey is raped by the prison guard and the show focused on how he felt about it, that he was just a bumbling idiot who didn't know the struggling prisoner didn't want to have sex with him. And turns out, Hess is responsible for that, too!
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u/droll_tragedeigh 17h ago
The companion book for season 2 explicitly states that Hess was in charge of the writers' room for the second season, and if you read interviews with the other writers, they mention consulting her or going through her on this or that aspect, not Condal himself. Her role in the show's writing goes far beyond the individual scripts she's credited with. When they discuss how she and Condal work together it really sounds like she should be officially credited as a co-showrunner like D&D.
I know some people feel she gets too much criticism, but there's no reason to downplay her influence on the scripts. Her hands are all over them no matter who's actually credited.
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u/Bloodyjorts 17h ago
Yep. It's not uncommon for one writer to be the Unofficial Head Writer, thus everyone has to go through them.
Any individual writer isn't entitled to writing credits unless they write at least 40% of an episode, so she (or others) can make changes to scripts, even major changes, without putting their name on it.
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u/droll_tragedeigh 9h ago
Right, there's nothing unusual about her involvement, screenwriting in general is more collaborative than most people realize.
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u/Cultural_Plan_1487 20h ago
Which episodes did she write in OITNB?
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u/No-Statement-8317 18h ago
She did a few, but the ones that stand out are: the one where that guard rapes an inmate and remains a sympathetic character, and one which has flashbacks where Vee (Taystees evil foster mother) is all sexy and kinky with one of her older foster sons.
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u/Bloodyjorts 18h ago
Oh, do you want a quote about Hess talking about what she wrote on the show, I HAVE ONE.
[when asked why they made Aegon a rapist in the show] "I think just because somebody has committed this act [rape] that it's not a reason we can't have a more nuanced discussion - or even feel sympathy for him - while acknowledging what he did was indefensible. It's simplistic to say: "He raped somebody, he's horrible and evil and we can never find anything interesting or likable in him" I worked on story about this in Orange is the New Black where we had a character who was raped and then we dealt with the feelings of the rapist who, at the time, did not understand he was raping this woman, because he thought "Oh, this is my girl, I love her, and she's just not into it" I think there are many otherwise fairly decent, upstanding men walking around this world who possibly committed some unwanted sexual advance in college and have no idea what kind of effect it had on the person and genuinely think of themselves as a good person. While the person in the room with them, it was received a completely different way. Nobody's ever taught Aegon about consent or what a relationship is supposed to look like and his mother married his father when she was 16. So this is a very long way of saying: "It's more complicated than "You raped somebody, this is the end of your story"
The OITNB story she's talking about is where a prison guard (who has been targeting a particular prisoner for several episodes, giving her treats one day, but making her eat food off the floor the next) gets told off by his boss, and so he takes his anger out on the prisoner (Tiffiany/Pennsatuckey), picking her up and dragging her to a van as she struggles and says to stop, slams her face down, and violently rapes her as she just goes limp and disassociates.
The show legitimately tried to portray him as just being a dumb babyman, stumble-bumbling into a rape on accident, and then romanticizes the 'relationship' between him and Tiffany once he says he's super sorry. Like legitimately, not even in like a 'this is the cycle of abuse' thing, they just have them in a relationship. HE IS A PRISON GUARD AND SHE'S A PRISONER. Even without the violence and force, it would be rape.