I am in a relationship with my brother, who impregnated me

[u/Celany]

Hit the button too soon!

I am not the original poster. This is a repost.

Originally posted 9 years ago across a number of subs by u/incpregnantthrowaway.

Some light editing done for clarity.

Marked as "concluded" as OOP hasn't posted in 9 years.

TW: Incest

odd pregnancy questions [March 19 2013]

Long story short, I'm pregnant from my biological brother, and i have no idea what to. I don't want to go to the doctor and have them find out. I know there is physician-patient privilege, but does that cover this?

I don't know what to do and i am kind of scared, should I get a attorney, I am so confused.

Relevant Comments:

• When asked if it was consensual: I like how you assumed that he sexually assaulted me. Yes it was consensual, and and him did kind of intend for this, although, I should have figured all this stuff out before hand...
• I do treat him as a lover (married if we could), and I do require testing as there are risks associated with siblings having children. And I do want to keep it.
• I don't need tests to see if he is the father, I know he is. I am not ashamed of my relationship, I am simply afraid of me or him or both of us being put in jail or something. I do not care about judgment, and moving is completely out of the question due to his job.
• He makes a high 6 figure salary, and we are still young, so he has the potential to do much better. moving to a different state is not an acceptable solution, I'd likely abort before we did that.
• When asked her age: .I am an adult edit: and he is too, hes actually older than me

​

incestious pregnancy [March 19 2013]

I made a post to r/askreddit not long ago asking this question, but then it dawned on me to ask it here with more questions I have here.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1akuu4/odd_pregnancy_questions/

• Yes, I plan to go to the doctor later today, and no, I will not be saying anything about this whole situation until I speak with the attorney my brother trusts on Thursday.
• No, I am not aborting unless there will be known health issues for either me or my child. Which is why I will eventually (soon) need to tell medical professionals about all this.
• The father is my brother, everything was consensual and we are both adults between the ages of 20 and 30.
• We live in Missouri and are not in a position to move elsewhere if at all possible. I would abort if needed to avoid moving.

My questions, I'll be asking on Thursday too, I just want to get a feel for how all this is going to pan out.

• Are doctors required or likely to say or do anything in these cases.
• My brother has better health insurance than me, is is likely that his insurance would cover all the additional testing me and him would require. If getting insurance companies involved in all this would cause problems we can pay in cash.
• is it likely that we would ever be able to live "normally" without needing to hide behind legal shenanigans.
• If SHTF, what will happen to me and him legally. I understand that "committing incest" is a class D felony, what does that mean? I have never dealt with the law or cops before, so this really scares me a lot.

edit: I have decided to abort for the legal reasons and the overall evidence supplied below that it is likely that the baby would be born with birth defects (even though I am only ~75% sure they are right, mostly due to the small sample size, among other things).

Sorry if I turned this into a sob story or a silly discussion with little relevance to legal issues.

Relevant Comments:

• This comment sums up what a massive world of hurt OOP and her brother are in, if they do not abort. TLDR: Incest is still very illegal in a lot of places, it would not go well for either of them, and follow them for the rest of their lives. OOP lives in Missouri, which is a state that treated incest as a crime and will prosecute. It is a class E felony.
• Just going to use one comment as a blanket example. OOP defends incest and "her right" to incest the entire thread: I don't care if people want to have sex with their relatives, I just don't like it when it is encouraged. I am perfectly fine with it as long as it "just happens", just how you find some other person on the street, or at the mall or in a bar. I don't see incest as something you want to have (i didn't choose to be attracted to my brother), I see it as something that just happens. Although I still don't see why people even get off on incest, or why there is such a huge fascination with it, whether it be positive or negative.

​

I am in a relationship with my brother, who impregnated me [March 20 2013]

Yesterday and the day before, I was the topic of fine intellectual discussion on /r/legaladvice and /r/subredditdrama, which I think got way out of hand.

Several people have PMed me to "tell my story", however I don't know what exactly it is that people want to know, so post your questions below and later today I will answer them after my brother gives me the okay.

edit: I am done answering questions for today and I can't tomarrow. But if there are any good questions I see, I will probably answer them Friday.

Thanks for being mostly respectful of my situation, and thanks for the support you guys have given me. It feels good to talk about all this and have no worries of being found out and sent to Alcatraz or something. I do apologize for some of my initial statements, they were a bit hasty and rash.

Celany's note: I am going to include OOP's story as to how it got started, as it was a comment on this post:

Disclaimer: If you are looking for a sex story, look elsewhere.

There was a comment in one of the linked posts that describes exactly how and why I choose to be with my brother. It was something along the lines of "How could you do that with someone you knew when you were a baby."

When we were younger (~5-10), we would go out into the woods and play around all day. And we would really often play video games together. Me and him are both fairly nerdy I guess you could say. We did not think much of it, but I think being "best friends" at that time is what placed the catalyst inside me.

When we were in our teens, we did not really get along, but we still played video games somewhat often.

It was in my later teen years that I starting feelings things for him. I was not sure at first what it was, but eventually I knew it was because I was in love with him. I did not know that society thought being with your brother was wrong at that time, but I still knew enough that I should keep it a secret. In one of my biology classes the topic of incest was brought up by one of the students, and what the students said about it crushed me. I'm glad my teacher did not say any negative things about it, it gave me just enough strength to not break down in the middle of class. I thought that it would only be natural for me to want to be with him, as he is the one who I grew up with. We ate, lived and played together for our whole lives, how could I possibly trust anyone else to spend my life with.

I ran away into the woods and cried that night, I just wanted to die.

I started feeling jealous when he would talk to other girls, and when he got to be a senior I wanted nothing more than to be his date. Obviously this would never happen, but I deluded myself into the fantasy.

I can't say what arrangements were like after high school as that would make it easy to identify us, but he did stay around, and for that I was grateful. I too graduated and had similar plans to him after high school, so he offered to let me live with him.

At night we would sit on the couch together and watch movies. We still played games too, sometimes. Over time we kind of got closer I guess. Eventually, he broke up with his girlfriend. I don't know why, but he did, but it made me really happy. Nothing really changed much between us.

His situation changed again, and he decided he wanted to buy a house. And he wanted me to help him pick. I got all kinds of crazy thoughts, and now that I think about it, in my head I was like that OAG.

I don't know what told me to say this but, I asked him if I could kiss him. He got fairly red and didn't say anything, but later that night he did ask me if I wanted to go anywhere for fun. He took us downtown and we had dinner. I never got the kiss, but he did hug me. It made me feel so good, that I had the privilege of being here for him. I wish I could say that he took my virginity that night. I actually cried over that in private.

Soon after (maybe a month or so) things were made more official when we bought 2 more houses under my name and his name to throw off any possible suspicion. He eventually gave me a ring, I loved it so much, and I still do today. It is magnetic, so anytime we hold hands they get pulled toward each other. I don't how he knew that I did not want a traditional ring or why he chose this particular piece, but it is my most cherished possession now.

For the most part after that point, I saw him as my person of comfort, trust, love and partnership. I don't know what it feels like to be with someone else, hes the only one I have ever been this close to. Being forced to leave him would rip me to shreds. It scares me and makes me angry every time I hear discussion making it out to be that my relationship with him is abusive, wrong or otherwise illegitimate. It takes every ounce of strength I have to just walk away.

If there is an area anyone wants more detail in, just ask and I may answer. Keep in mind that it takes a while to respond with any length as I read over my replied multiple times to screen out identifying details.

Relevant Comments:

• How old are they: between 20 & 30.
• When did the relationship start: I don't remember exactly (the date) when we started, but it was after we moved in together. Yes, we still have a sexual relationship, we do a couple times a month. Sometimes more sometimes less I guess.
• Do they just have sex, or a real relationship: I guess, we go out and do things fairly often (~10+ times a month). We can't travel far enough to be sure nobody we might possibly know would be around so we act how we want, but we still have a good time. I don't care to classify my relationship with him, as me and him do what we want.
• Does anybody know: Our mother might be, so we try to avoid contact with her.
• Was the pregnancy planned: Not "planned" exactly, but rather intentional. If it were planned, I would not be answering these questions right now... I wanted a baby, so I asked and he agreed. So I stopped taking the pill.
• Can you handle a long-term relationship with your brother without kids: I don't know, I am not even sure if I am fit to have a kid, adopted or not. I am seriously considering making myself talk to professionals before making any more decisions involving children. I think he does want a kid.
• I do care a lot about him, and it would seem that way because he keep a lot of his feelings and emotions bottled up a guess. This is probably due to work related stress, so I just try to be the best I can. I know he cares about me in a similar way to how I care for him. He shows it every day when he holds me while we play games or when we go out and act sort of like a couple (nothing obvious, just in case). It's just hard to put it into words, and I do not feel comfortable speaking for him or putting words in his mouth.
• Why do you think your mother knows: I can't say much about this matter as my mother is very much technically competent and it would not surprise me if she was on reddit. She has never commented on us or even asked my brother or myself why we do not have partners. I don't know how she would react if we explicitly said so. I have considered asking him if we should, I think we should wait some more and look for additional signs before going further with that. Although we don't see her very often, so it probably doesn't matter much. I will not talk about any of my other family, including our father.

recent events [April 02 2013]

Post deleted by mods, but seems to be about information about OOP's dad being in prison and dying by suicide. Also mentions the dad "cross dressing", but is unclear if dad was trans or enjoyed drag or something else. OOP seems to indicate that if OOP's dad was trans, the family would not have judged him/her for it.

OOP also mentions going to a psychologist.

Relevant Comment:

• The psychologist does not give me many clues on how they feel about it [the relationship with her brother] . Although they did ask a lot of questions about it and I did notice them looking at me closely when they thought I would not notice. I am guessing to make sure there was no abuse taking place. To be more specific, the psychologist did show signs of agitation. I noticed the eye twitch and they became visibly more defensive. I don't think a normal person would have picked it up. But overall the psychologist is very professional and I am glad to have them. I probably should not say this next bit, but I will probably print this all out and give it to them the next time, so why not. The last session I had, I am guessing was to gauge the exact nature of my relationship. It made me feel like I was being challenged, and that I had to defend my feelings for my brother.

a quick update about [April 18 2013]

Just an update for those that are interested (that and to help sort out my feelings and emotions). See my post and comment history if you want more information.

My brother did end up seeing my psychologist after quite a bit of convincing. After he went he did tell me that he did feel a little better, which is quite amazing since he usually never just tells me how he feels. He said that this is probably what he needed for some time. I think so too, given his very stressful job, and the whole situation with me, I am glad he feels good.

Overall I feel a lot better than before as well. I feel a lot more free, and his more open attitude makes me like him more. My overall impression of our relationship has moved more toward the direction of being like spouses.

I am not sure how I feel about that exactly. In the past I have never really bothered to think about us and who we were toward each other. He has always felt like a person who would always be by my side. It always felt a lot like we were really close siblings, which I like a lot. And I will really miss the feeling of him being my brother. However, I have always wanted to be something like a wife for him. I don't know, I'll just not worry about it for now and see where we go from here. As long as we are both happy, it should not matter.

Thanks for your time.

Relevant Comments:

• Commenter asks OOP if the psychologist gave advice on her relationship with her brother? And what the psychologist said to OOP's brother: I don't know anything about sessions between the psychologist and my brother. We are keeping these things private, even between each other. However, for me, they more or less guide me and my emotions and whatever else to a fairly broad conclusion. It is very relaxing. And most problems I have don't seem to have anything to do with my relationship with my brother. Although there is still a lot of stress with it, however the stress is not from him.
• Commenter also asks if the relationship is hard to hide: I am a fairly serious and private person, so no one really ever asks me about personal details. For example, I have never used a social media/network site (it always seemed really creepy to me to make available details about myself to the world). I do not feel obligated to tell anyone anything about myself, mostly colleagues. I don't know how to describe my relationships with people outside of work. I do not associate with others without a clear purpose, however I do have fun being around them and doing our fun tasks and stuff together. Since most of them are really weird, and have no interest outside of why we get together, we do not talk much about personal stuff. I guess you could say that choosing this is kind of lonely to a "normal" person, but I don't feel that way, my best friend has for the most part always been my brother. We genuinely share a lot of interests, one being cryptography, as you might guess from some of my recent comments. We also like gaming (Nintendo especially) and consuming media like movies and TV shows together, among other stuff. I don't find much stress in the way you might think of it. Again, it does not bother me to be to be very secretive with colleagues, but it really bothers me a lot that I can't be affectionate in public with him. I honestly would love to show him off, I think he is very charming, and I find him to be very attractive (a very objective analysis).
• We [brother and sister] were always private, we were raised that way. I think both me and him have some fairly big trust issues for others besides each other and our mother.

​

We Told Her [May 23 2013]

It has been awhile since I last posted, but I have something to post that may be of interest to some of you.

This "news" is a bit old, from a week ago. My bother and me decided to tell our mother about our relationship (Not exactly, but whatever). I am feeling very mixed about it. I am kind of glad I did, but at the same time I wish I hadn't.

It all started around Mother's Day, we went to visit, which is kind of uncommon for us at this time, even though we don't live more than 30 minutes away. Anyway, she was very happy to see us when we visited, and we both like seeing her happy. We took her out to a somewhat nice place she likes (she is very fiscally conservative and would not let us spend a lot of money on her), and we took her to another more calm and casual lace. I think we made a little bit of a mistake of being too close and friendly with each other, because she was looking at as different than when we first saw her that day. But I am very paranoid so it could have just been a natural adjustment from just being around us.

When we departed, I brought it up with my brother, and he thought about it for a bit and kind of agreed with me. This brought up the idea of just telling her, which at the time I was about 70% against it. I could tell that he was not completely against the idea either, which made me more inclined to go for it.

On the way over to her house the next weekend, we brought up the idea of telling her again. We both agreed that, we should probably tell her, for reasons unknown, but it would probably be best that we did not say anything. We arrived and she was happy to see us, although her initial reaction was slightly different (probably just natural, but I am very paranoid). We went to some random buffet in her area to talk and catch up. She seemed very interested in us, and very happy that we were doing well in our pursuits and careers. Hindsight 20/20, she seemed preoccupied during all of this.

We went back to her house and talked some more and watched some TV for a bit. She seemed obviously distracted. Then she started staring at my ring and I saw her beginning to cry. It was the first time I ever seen either of my parents cry. I asked her what was wrong. She did not respond, but by this time it was fairly obvious she knew. I had no idea what to say. I just held my brother's hand and hoped that she would not hate us and tell us to never see her again.

After a little bit of her crying it did not seem like it was us specifically she was sad or disappointed at. My brother asked her what was wrong. She didn't want to really say anything about it, but he convinced her to. He has always had a little bit closer of a relationship to her than me.

It actually turned out that she had a brother who died when he was 16, she was 14 at that time. She said we reminded her of him and her, and she had feelings for him. However, she was never able to tell him. When he died, she never wanted to think of it again. She confirmed that she suspected that we were together, but only recently (since Mother's Day) was she sure. She did not say what she thought of us, but she has not treated us any different since.

That is all I can write for now, I am feeling "off".

Relevant Comments:

• I don't know, but I feel so bad. But she is a great mother, and it really bothered me to see her cry. We will see her again this weekend hopefully. I had no idea that she had a brother, but I can understand why she got upset. I would feel like her if I lost my brother.

Reminder: I am not the original poster. Originally posted 9 years ago across a number of subreddits.

ps: Hi Y'all! TLDR of my life: Work got crazy, we did some TNR (trap/neuter/release) and ended up with a young adult cat we're trying to socialize. So now 3-5 hours of my day goes to that every day. I'm hoping to post at least occasionally again.

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[u/HaitchanM]

The mom was ok with her kids sleeping together and also wanted to sleep with her own brother?

[u/Weirdkittkat → u/HaitchanM]

I don’t think this is real, mostly because of this

[u/Confident_Ad_7947 → u/Weirdkittkat]

It was the causally buying 2 houses that tipped me off.

And running off to cry in the woods.

[u/hardrocker943 → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

Can buy two houses but can't move to another state.

[u/listenyall → u/hardrocker943]

Right--like, they have no social lives and aren't close with their mom but will do anything to avoid having to move states??

[u/AshTreex3 → u/hardrocker943]

Tbf, Missouri is dirt cheap place to live in. A middle class family in MO is in poverty in some other locations.

[u/malorthotdogs → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

Yeah. Because this is basically the plot to every VC Andrews book ever.

[u/MMorrighan → u/malorthotdogs]

My thoughts exactly!

[u/TheReturnoftheBanned → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

Lol yeah. Like it is a Nicholas Sparks story.

[u/secretrebel → u/TheReturnoftheBanned]

I thought Virginia Andrews

[u/LadyNorbert → u/secretrebel]

That's exactly where my mind went too, that this felt very Flowers in the Attic.

[u/LittlestEcho → u/LadyNorbert]

You know... it took me YEARS of watching that creepy ass movie before i cottoned on that the mom married her own uncle. As a kid i just assumed that the dad wasn't that wealthy or was lower class and that the grandmother essentially tried to erase him from both the mother's and childrens' lives before trying to erase the children because she hated the dad that much.

God i miss being innocent.

[u/LadyNorbert → u/LittlestEcho]

It gets worse. If you read the ghostwritten prequel and accept it as canon (some fans don’t), she actually married her brother. They really were half-uncle and niece, because his father was her grandfather; but after his father died, Malcolm repeatedly raped his young stepmother Alicia until she was pregnant, and they kept the baby (Corrine) and sent the stepmother and little Christopher away. Only Malcolm, Olivia, and Alicia knew the truth. When Christopher came to live with them again as a young man following his mother’s death, he and Corrine fell in love and ran away together. Big screwed-up family.

[u/PoetryOfLogicalIdeas → u/secretrebel]

I read these books as a young teen. I don't think my parents realized what they were about, because surely they wouldn't have encouraged that sort of content. But aren't they young adult books, specifically marketed to teens? I am certainly not one to shelter my kids or censor their reading, but this does seems like an odd one to be marketed directly at teens.

[u/witchywater11 → u/PoetryOfLogicalIdeas]

What's funny is how I learned about those books in middle school. I wasn't even the one who read them, it was my friend who took an ESL class in 7th grade. The teacher had an entire class of 12-14 year olds reading "Flowers in the Attic" to learn/improve their english. It cracks me up when I think about it today.

[u/PoetryOfLogicalIdeas → u/witchywater11]

WHAT?!

My kid's 7th grade honors English teacher had to rework a unit of her curriculum on short notice this year because someone decided that Romeo and Juliette did not have enough literary value to outweigh the questionable subject material. But some teacher specifically directed an entire class to Flowers in the Attic?!

Man, the past was weird.

[u/bad_armenian_juju → u/TheReturnoftheBanned]

but there was no cancer in this story at all!

[u/[deleted] → u/bad_armenian_juju]

Or poison, or attic, and every man she meets doesn’t fall head over heels in love with her while being abusive and a rapist but it’s fine because “passion”

[u/EveryFairyDies → u/[deleted]]

lol Yeah, noticed those things happened a lot in those books. Like, even her own son at one point... is there any man who does t want her? Makes you wonder about VC Andrews’ mindset....

[u/Jovet_Hunter → u/EveryFairyDies]

She only wrote the first few books of one series. The rest are written by Andrew Neiderman, a former schoolteacher.

Ugh. I feel greasy just knowing that.

[u/OpinionatedAussieGal → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

Yeah. Just bought two houses in the sisters name to throw off suspicion.

Like. Whaaaaattt

[u/pixienotresponding → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

Same. What job in Missouri pays high 6 figures in your 20’s? I was so hung up on that point, the rest of the story fell apart for me.

[u/[deleted] → u/pixienotresponding]

Methamphetamine manufacturing, maybe?

[u/Slaphappydap → u/pixienotresponding]

That's so funny, I got hung up on that, too, and as I was reading the rest I kept thinking, I wonder if she meant he makes high five-figures or low six-figures. People making 750k don't worry about who has better insurance for a pregnancy in Missouri. And they don't have any trouble finding "lawyers they can trust". If you make that kind of money you know lawyers. Lawyers will find you. You're either the youngest Fortune 500 executive in Kansas City or you run your own business.

If you're making "high six-figures" in your 20's, with no kids, no spouse, no real commitments, you don't go on dates to a restaurant downtown, you fly to St. Barts on the weekend. My sister-in-law makes really good money and her Instagram is full of picturesque vacations. Also kind of funny that he's shockingly successful, apparently charming and good-looking, but his dating pool is limited to his family.

Anyway, might have been a poor turn of phrase, but also the whole story is insane so have fun with the details.

[u/[deleted] → u/pixienotresponding]

I was thinking family business which is why he can't move because of his job. If he moved, there was no way he could make close to that much.

[u/shumpitostick → u/[deleted]]

And yet they rarely meet their mom, or any other family?

[u/saxtasticnick → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

The crying in the woods part was believable, my college-aged sister still does dramatic running off and crying stuff like that. And yes, I realize how dangerous it is to mention siblings in this comment section, lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

It was three houses if you look at it again. They bought one house and then "two more houses" under OOP's name. Absolute bullshit.

[u/Huge-Connection954 → u/Confident_Ad_7947]

I mean she said he made high 6 figures. Could get multiple homes 10 years ago in Missouri with that easy

[u/pixienotresponding → u/Huge-Connection954]

Yeah, but what job in Missouri pays high 6 figures in your twenties?

[u/[deleted] → u/Weirdkittkat]

My first clue was the whole "It made sense because we've always known each other!" bit. I know that happens with some people who are unrelated though, so I let it slide.

But then she gets to high school and gets upset when incest comes up and suddenly she gets upset because she had no idea incest was a social taboo? Really? You live in Missouri and never joked about cousin or sibling marriages in Alabama or Kentucky?

Nope. Not real. Those stereotypes are everywhere in that region and you start hearing about them young. Unless you are only living with people okay with incest, you know that it's wrong by that point.

[u/Amazon-Prime-package → u/Weirdkittkat]

Is there any way a psychologist would take as a patient the incestuous brother of their existing patient? That's a huge conflict of interest

[u/AreWeCowabunga → u/Weirdkittkat]

The thing that tipped me off was that she was in her late teens and didn't realize that incest was bad and socially not acceptable.

[u/Writeloves → u/HaitchanM]

Hereditary mental illness? If that’s considered a mental illness? Wanting that sort of connection with a close family member is definitely abnormal. Maybe something to do with how they were raised, so privately that it was difficult form connections outside the family?

It doesn’t sound like the brothers relationships lasted long and even OOP says he doesn’t tell her much about how he’s feeling. As for her, it’s pretty easy to stay single if no one asks you out and as intensely private as she is, it wouldn’t be surprising. She never mentions dating. You do have to put yourself out there to a certain extent, even as a woman.

Definitely unhealthy, maybe not the psychological effects of the romantic relationship as it is now but the fact that they got into it all is a warning sign for deeper issues.

Edit: I would also like to note something I didn’t see earlier which is that she clearly had some other sexual relationship before her brother because she “wishes he had taken her virginity.” Still no mention of any other dates I could find, but she is a private person. Nope. See below. She received no kiss and she was sad her virginity was not taken that night. Implied later.

[u/Mosuke300 → u/Writeloves]

To me it reads as a fantasy. Perhaps OOP does exist but it reads as entirely made up.

Brother miraculously loves her back and is the perfect partner. Has a great job making 6 figures despite not understanding how babies are made or genetic issues. They eventually tell their mother who supports it wholeheartedly and even had a similar experience herself (see it’s not that unusual!)

I’ve never heard of hereditary incest mental health problems. Bizarre.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mosuke300]

To be honest I am pretty sure I’ve read this exact same story on a porn website sooo

[u/Ladymistery → u/[deleted]]

Flowers in the Attic (or really, any VC andrews set...)

[u/Perfect_Razzmatazz → u/Ladymistery]

lol, yup! This is all VERY Flowers in the Attic

[u/realitycanwait → u/Ladymistery]

I caught that reference too!

[u/PhilomenaBunny → u/Mosuke300]

The whole being in their late teens and not knowing that society frowned upon incest.

[u/umareplicante → u/Mosuke300]

Which I found most strange is how their parents were never mentioned. Then we discover the father died, but what about their mother? It's like they were raising themselves, no parent in the picture. The mother only appears to say it happened to her too, like this is a genetic trait.

[u/areyoubawkingtome → u/Mosuke300]

I know a guy that assaulted his baby sister that he practically raised. His grandpa assaulted their mom too, and have heard that the two look and act very similar. I was good friends with the sister. She attempted uh... The unalive (but failed), because she couldn't tell her mom "Remember how your dad assaulted you? Well your son assaulted me, your daughter, too. So you made and raised a rapist and couldn't protect your daughter from going through what you did."

I have since thought that incest/rape/child abusing can be an inheritable trait (like predisposed). But then again I also found out that the guy was insanely porn sick and had an "imouto" fetish, so who knows?

[u/theempiresbest → u/areyoubawkingtome]

I want to know what imouto is but I don’t want to google it.

[u/[deleted] → u/theempiresbest]

imouto means little sister in japanese so i think you can figure out the rest

[u/UKsNo1CountryFan → u/areyoubawkingtome]

I have since thought that incest/rape/child abusing can be an inheritable trait (like predisposed).

Sexual abuse 100% passes though families, but it it isn't genetic like mental illness. It's abused children growing into traumatised adults, choosing abusive partners and/or becoming abusers themselves.

[u/Mosuke300 → u/areyoubawkingtome]

The whole thing reads as though it’s an elaborate fantasy created to justify it and that it’s not so bad.

[u/Haphazard-Finesse → u/Writeloves]

I do not associate with others without a clear purpose...Since most of them are really weird, and have no interest outside of why we get together, we do not talk much about personal stuff

Definitely some kind of social disorder here.

[u/JMer806 → u/Haphazard-Finesse]

Hello coworkers, I am joining your Happy Hour to fulfill my 3 units of monthly socializing. Please input socialization directly into my sensory sockets.

[u/BiscottiOpposite9282 → u/Writeloves]

Maybe the mom encouraged it when they were younger but didnt realize. She was trying to pass off her love for her brother onto them.

[u/Jilasme_azelson → u/BiscottiOpposite9282]

that's what i thought too. Some atavism running in the family after the mother's trauma

Could explain how OOP "didn't know" that incest was disapproved by society (understandably) before going to high school

[u/Gild5152 → u/Writeloves]

I mean it’s pretty obvious from how OP writes and describes herself and her relationships she has some sort of mental illness. Idk if it has anything to do with her being attracted to her brother, but there’s definitely something there.

[u/dootdootplot → u/Gild5152]

Yeah her description of how she looks at other people - how she observes their behavior and draws conclusions about what it ‘means,’ her psychiatrist for instance, talking about eye movement and posture, and saying that other people wouldn’t have noticed… all that struck me as pretty odd.

[u/kittydeathdrop → u/dootdootplot]

This sort of hyper-vigilance is apparently common with CPTSD/people with disorganized attachments; it's caused by having a caregiver, etc. be extremely emotionally or otherwise unpredictable. Things like hugging you one moment and screaming in your face the next, with little warning.

Source: my therapist/psychiatrist told me this because I have the same problem lol

ETA: By same problem I mean CPTSD. I don't want to fuck any of my family members. Just wanted to clarify and get that out there 😂

[u/Kristylane → u/dootdootplot]

I picked up on that part! She says that “normal” people wouldn’t have picked up on it but she did. So… she knows she’s not normal?

[u/TinyBlue → u/dootdootplot]

Yes! I was wondering how much of that is real, like she actually just is that astute at reading people, vs how much of it is fantasy and her own delusion that she can easily tell what people are thinking. Either way, quite unusual.

[u/Amedicalmistake → u/Writeloves]

I don't think it's mental illness but it is most likely that the mother lacked that filter/lock that makes us not want to mate with our immediate family, and basically spread it with her offspring.

I don't know the exact biology of it, tho, so I cannot rationalize this further

[u/Larry-Man → u/Amedicalmistake]

It’s psychology. There’s an age range where your brain tells you “sibling”. They discovered this with arranged child marriages in some remote part of China where the kids would be like 7-10 (both children) running households together. They very rarely produced children because at that age their brains were telling them “sibling” with their level of closeness. Boarding schools can do this too if kids are raised in a cohort. It’s very strange. Usually cases like OP happen when they didn’t grow up together.

Edit: as others have said I’ve got my info mixed up a little. Look into the Westermarck effect for more info.

[u/_svaha_ → u/Larry-Man]

Hopping in to add that this happened in the Israeli settlements where they raised all the children together, children raised in the settlement wouldn't form sexual relationships with each other, but if someone from an outside group moved in, they were seen as a potential partner

[u/Creatur3 → u/Larry-Man]

Here’s a fun link in it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect “The Westermarck effect, also known as reverse sexual imprinting, is a psychological hypothesis that people tend not to be attracted to peers with whom they lived like siblings before age six.”

[u/Larry-Man → u/Creatur3]

Thank you! I knew it had a name but my bachelors where we covered that is coming up on being a decade ago.

[u/norfolktilidie → u/Larry-Man]

Yes, it seems like there's an evolutionary development that humans have to stop us having incestuous sex and reducing our children's prospects. I would guess OOP's family for some reason have lost that evolutionary development through random genetic mutation.

[u/[deleted] → u/Amedicalmistake]

It seems more to me like they were raised so sheltered that they had no one to trust but each other. Were probably raised to think you can’t trust anyone and had limited contact with anyone else, so it reinforced the idea that they can only trust each other. OOP says multiple times how he’s always been the person she was closest to, her best friend, and the only person she can trust. If you’re raised to not trust anyone else and then start having feelings of wanting to be in a romantic relationship, you might turn to the only person in the world you feel like you’ll ever be able to trust. Maybe the mother was raised the same way.

[u/[deleted] → u/Writeloves]

More like being raised in homes without boundaries. Mom wasn't taught boundaries and she raised her children the same way.

[u/Writeloves → u/[deleted]]

It doesn’t sound like lack of boundary so much as an over abundance of boundary between the family and the rest of the world.

OOP didn’t describe any abnormal behavior other than lack of socialization with other people. Playing video games and hanging out in the woods is normal sibling stuff. Never playing with anyone else is not.

[u/RanaMisteria → u/Writeloves]

I think it’s both a very insular, isolated family life, only having each other and a lack of boundaries within the family, probably due to generational family trauma…

[u/sthetic → u/Writeloves]

Yeah, it was so weird how she went from, "oh you know, we grew up playing in the woods together and also played video games" to, "and that's why I wanted to kiss him."

Plenty of people have siblings that they grow up with, it doesn't result in incest.

[u/flyingcactus2047 → u/sthetic]

The way that she stated it, like “how could I not have fallen in love with him?” really threw me off. It seemed like she thought it was so obvious and normal and doesn’t understand how people aren’t falling for their siblings right and left

[u/[deleted] → u/Writeloves]

Definitely. There's something about this whole story that leads me to believe these children were raised in some kind of cult, or at least situation where they were discouraged from engaging with "outsiders," which could easily convince someone to not trust others easily. OOP also refuses to talk about her father and says she's close to her mother, so I'm wondering if the father had brought his family into something they had to escape from. If this were the case, I'm betting there was a lot of trauma and it makes sense why OOP only feels safe around her brother and mother.

No, you can't help who you're attracted to, but if the person you're attracted to is an immediate, biological family member, it's time to talk to a professional. OOP states a few times that, while she loves her brother and they do have a sexual relationship, she feels safest with him and would be destroyed if he ever left. This sounds like some severe trauma bonding and codependency. We would all be completely devastated if we lost a loved one, but OOP sounds like she would not be able to function without her brother.

This whole situation screams "misplaced emotions" at every turn and I'm genuinely curious to know what the outcome of all this has been. I hope, at the very least, they have given up plans to (very selfishly) biologically procreate because that child would have zero chance at a normal life. Even if the child were adopted, they're going to, eventually, learn their parents are bother and sister. And now that they have their mother's blessing, they'd likely raise the child to believe incest is okay, which... I'm sorry, my mind cannot stop thinking about all the directions this could go. It's all just very, very sad.

[u/flyingcactus2047 → u/[deleted]]

It read strongly to me as codependent as well. Not a healthy sibling relationship or romantic relationship (or I guess not a healthy romantic sibling relationship 😅)

[u/dazzlingestdazzler → u/Writeloves]

Edit: I would also like to note something I didn’t see earlier which is that she clearly had some other sexual relationship before her brother because she “wishes he had taken her virginity.”

I thought she meant they didn't have sex that night, but did a later night, because she said he didn't even kiss her that night. So I interpreted as her saying he took her virginity (ugh, I hate typing that, not in this case because of the incest, but just because of the whole construct of "virginity" and it being something given or taken or lost, etc) at a later date, and that night she was crying because she wishes they had had sex?

[u/[deleted] → u/Writeloves]

I want to curl into the fetal position every time I hear “taken virginity” it’s such a weird, gross melodramatic phrase.

Then I think of Liam Neeson out avenging all the virginity and getting it back.

[u/DeathGP → u/[deleted]]

Haha look it's a CK3 out of context comment... wait

[u/Sweetragnarok → u/[deleted]]

Reddit used to have that sub for ppl who are in such relationships. But it got banned after a lot of grooming posts were made. Most of the stories there were mostly step sibling iirc, but other I didnt even wanna read because of said grooming advice posts from redditors.

[u/Umklopp → u/Sweetragnarok]

But it got banned after a lot of grooming posts were made.

Good.

Some people are sick.

[u/no_ovaries_ → u/HaitchanM]

There is a study out there that suggests that kinks are hereditary......... which is...... unpleasant..... to think about.

[u/Celany → u/no_ovaries_]

I am 95% sure that my mom and I share kinks, based off of some questions she asked me when I was well into adulthood.

I try not to think about it.

(I also pointed her to some online resources and told her we would NOT be having a conversation about those things again)

[u/HoundstoothReader → u/Celany]

Oh no. I choose not to think about my parents’ kinks, but this really explains some things about my teen/young adult kids. I had never heard of these things being heritable.

[u/adrirocks2020 → u/no_ovaries_]

Fuck… I so did not need to learn this bit of information my god

[u/WhitePersonGrimace → u/no_ovaries_]

Yeah, big yuck to stuff like incest but that is legitimately interesting if there’s a genetic component to kinks. Tells me more about my family than I’d care to know, that’s for sure!

[u/olympic-lurker → u/HaitchanM]

I don't know that I'd read approval or acceptance in OOP's mom's reaction, just empathy and unconditional love. If they already weren't close and the mom regretted that, she wouldn't necessarily want to risk pushing them away by being outwardly disgusted and judgmental. She may also feel some amount of responsibility — remember, there's a LOT we don't know, and just because OOP says there's nothing abusive going on doesn't mean that is or always was an accurate assessment.

Even without abuse though, many young kids go through a developmental stage where they think they want to marry one of their parents, so I imagine this is similar, especially because OOP said she started feeling this way in her teens. If she was already introverted and not very social with people outside of her family while she was going through puberty with allosexual impulses and desires, her brother may have felt like a "safe" target for a crush.

I suspect it's not developmentally uncommon for people with siblings to feel some attraction to them as t(w)eens — just uncommon to talk about — and most people grow out of it and likely forget about it or deliberately push it down because of the taboo. If I'm right, it's not a weird coincidence for OOP's mom to have experienced the same thing, and since OOP's uncle died so young while OOP's mom's crush was still active, OOP's mom didn't have a chance to outgrow the crush and it probably got all tangled up with her grief.

I remember reading an article years ago about a woman who fell in love with (IIRC) her father, whom she didn't meet until she was an adult. They were looking to be reunited with bio family (the daughter must have been adopted) and were surprised that they were attracted to each other, but the feelings were so strong on both sides that they began a relationship. I think also that the father was pretty young when the daughter was born so the age gap was in the teens rather than multiple decades? The article cited research about how 1. We're often attracted to people with faces similar to our own (which family members are very likely to have), and 2. Growing up in the same household with someone makes you MUCH less likely to see them as a potential sexual partner. The author hypothesized that since this father and daughter didn't get to experience 2, 1 was overwhelming. There are always outliers, so maybe even with 2 in place for OOP and her brother, 1 (in combination with other factors) was overwhelming for them too.

[u/RanaMisteria → u/olympic-lurker]

It’s not…uncommon in family members who do not meet until they are adults. I think it’s called genetic sexual attraction…

[u/corticalization → u/HaitchanM]

Just keeping it in the family

[u/Yojo0o]

For frame of reference, this would have all been written from the start to near the end of Game of Thrones season 3. Make of that what you will.

[u/kelsobjammin → u/Yojo0o]

OooooooooOOOOoooooOOooo

[u/daanishh → u/Yojo0o]

That's some fine detective work, chief.

[u/facepalm_the_world → u/Yojo0o]

Does /r/BORU give special flairs? If ever there was a comment deserving one...

[u/[deleted]]

What the hell did I just read??!!!!

[u/DakiLapin → u/[deleted]]

How did she go to a psychiatrist and then feel MORE like a regular couple?!

[u/vanticus → u/DakiLapin]

Sometimes you get out what you put in. Perhaps her desire to normalise her freakishly abnormal relationship was reflected back in how she interpreted the psych’s reaction?

Whatever case, we have to view this entirely through the lens of someone who believes they’re in a suitable relationship, and it doesn’t sound like any kind of convincing will shake her belief in it.

[u/Bonanza86 → u/[deleted]]

A story of a brother and sister who were romantic and got pregnant from the looks of it.

[u/EbonyUmbreon → u/Bonanza86]

Don’t forget how the mom found out and reminisced about her own feeling for her late brother…

[u/Mrs239 → u/EbonyUmbreon]

I was thrown when I read that!! Like WHAT!!!

Is incest hereditary?

[u/EbonyUmbreon → u/Mrs239]

It was for them…but in all seriousness I am curious too! Is it a confirmed yes or no, or is it a maybe hereditary?

[u/firstladymsbooger → u/EbonyUmbreon]

Tbh I think this is just a troll post.

[u/Umklopp → u/[deleted]]

Ancient Egypt AU

[u/Bakedalaska1]

"Was the pregnancy planned: Not "planned" exactly, but rather intentional. If it were planned, I would not be answering these questions right now... I wanted a baby, so I asked and he agreed. So I stopped taking the pill. "

That's about as planned as it gets you idiots lol

[u/Light_inc → u/Bakedalaska1]

They're fucking each other when they're brother and sister, I don't think there's much brain power there.

[u/Material_Two377 → u/Bakedalaska1]

I am high and so confused by this statement. Intentional rather than planned. I guess the meaning of planned is something else to her?

Like maybe she meant organized and thought out properly? Lol

They give me floaty cloud aliens vibes

[u/luker_man]

Gotdang Lannisters.

[u/__Quill__]

" I thought that it would only be natural for me to want to be with him, as he is the one who I grew up with. We ate, lived and played together for our whole lives, how could I possibly trust anyone else to spend my life with."

I was shocked by this statement. I read somewhere about how in China they would pick a bride for the emperor and then raise her along side him and often they were NOT into each other because they were basically raised as siblings and that mentally they just couldn't get past it. I want it to be a book that I read it in but it may have been one of those "Adopted man finds biological sister and they fall in love!" articles about adopted kids connecting with their bio family and not having that built in revulsion to making out with their siblings.

[u/Mobilelurkingaccount → u/__Quill__]

Yeah I feel like 80% of people with siblings grow up together and love each other as siblings. An additional 19.99% grow up together and absolutely hate each other. Then there’s the 0.01% and it’s OOP. “How could I possibly trust anyone else to spend my life with”? Easy - the entire rest of the planet does it.

I wonder how this story would have turned out had OOP had a sister or no siblings at all.

[u/blu3heron → u/__Quill__]

It's mentioned further up in the thread, but there's this psychological hypothesis called the Westermarck effect, or reverse sexual imprinting, where people who are raised in a "sibling-like" fashion end up not being attracted to each other. The Chinese emperor thing you mentioned is one such example.

That's why usually when people end up in an incestuous relationship it's usually either 1) they had never grown up together/met before and may not even know they were related or 2) it's abusive, i.e. older family member abusing younger one.

[u/[deleted]]

What a horrible day to be literate

[u/Yummylicky23 → u/[deleted]]

I wish I was Jared, 19

[u/Haikouden → u/Yummylicky23]

I wish I was Jared, 19

For those who do not understand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqCCBohjaqA

[u/Bens_den_of_thoughts → u/Haikouden]

Thank you, this meme shall live on forever

[u/bringbackdavebabych → u/[deleted]]

They live in the state of Missouri. After reading this, I also live in the state of misery.

[u/etrebyelsk → u/[deleted]]

My wife and I were just talking about how amazing reading is(we were watching some movie where most people couldn't read), and now I want to take it all back.

[u/so_clever_username → u/[deleted]]

This made me laugh out loud. Take your damn silver!

[u/babbitygook14 → u/[deleted]]

I just... really fucking hope this is someone's fantasy and it's not real.

[u/ViscountBurrito → u/[deleted]]

The invention of the alphabet was a mistake.

[u/Previous-Treacle-577]

Where is my bathing toaster?

[u/Weltallgaia → u/Previous-Treacle-577]

Oh man, I'm stealing this one.

[u/MarieOMaryln]

I feel like I just walked in on a naked old man. The ending with the mom made me think of Flowers in the Attic.

[u/[deleted] → u/MarieOMaryln]

Made me think of that as well. I think this story is made up and might be inspired of that movie.

[u/ZealousIdealRejected]

do you ever feel like at some point you slipped into another universe and nothing makes sense anymore.

[u/Token_or_TolkienuPOS → u/ZealousIdealRejected]

I'm losing consciousness right now, I'm having some kind of neurological deficit. What the fuck is this shit?

[u/bynwho → u/ZealousIdealRejected]

Let’s see…

Donald Trump was President… check

Grown-ass adults believe there’s a secret space force of raptors and pleidians… check

Daniel Radcliffe is playing Weird Al in a movie… check

This fuckery… yup. This is the Bad Place.

[u/[deleted] → u/bynwho]

Dude. The Weird Al is totally a good place feature...

[u/yuckyuckthissucks → u/[deleted]]

It’s probably something that was written into the code to convince us everything was good and okay. Like endless frozen yogurt.

[u/MissGnomeHer]

I saw the title. I was warned. And yet I still read this.

[u/seasidedate → u/[deleted]]

And how fucked up is this whole "I don't know if I'm ready to have a kid." and "it wasn't planned" but also:

"I wanted a baby and he agreed, so I stopped taking the pill"

Like WTF? Why are so many people getting pregnant because wHy nOt despite being not ready.

[u/flyingcactus2047 → u/seasidedate]

I was so confused by “it wasn’t planned but [describes a planned pregnancy]”

[u/ReduxAssassin → u/flyingcactus2047]

I read it as OOP meant they wanted to get pregnant but hadn't really planned it out beyond the actual birth (ie. didn't think of the potential ramifications of it).

Just my take. There was something about her whole writing style that was bizarre to me, even beyond the obvious strange plot line. Disjointed and lacking a depth of emotional insight mixed in with a whole other amount of strange ideas and thoughts.

[u/Kesbae]

I’m not a religious person but I feel like I need Jesus after reading this.

[u/MesmerisingMint → u/Kesbae]

We need every pantheon there's ever fucking been.

[u/egonil → u/MesmerisingMint]

Except the Greek/Roman pantheon... Too much sibling screwing going on there to be of any real help. Zeus himself would have sex with anything capable of producing a moist orifice.

[u/DesignerComment → u/egonil]

Let's skip the Egyptian pantheon. There's some brother-fucking going on there, too.

[u/[deleted]]

That last update... Isn't this the plot of Flowers in the Attic? Didn't it turn out that the kids' father was also their mother's brother?

[u/nyorifamiliarspirit → u/[deleted]]

Their father was the mother's "half-uncle" I believe (father's half brother?)

[u/godzirrarawr]

This one makes me feel super gross because she is just so... casually horrific and seems baffled by all of the concern. Like... she is missing that part of her brain and isn't even aware its missing? My god.

[u/perrumpo → u/godzirrarawr]

Seriously. She sounded like she was still mentally about 14 years old, living in fantasy land in her head.

And to say that when she was in high school she didn’t know you weren’t supposed to be attracted to your sibling???

I’m a girl who grew up playing video games with my brother and lived with him in my early 20s, too, but never ever ever did either of us ever remotely have any attraction or anything ever. Ever. EVER.

[u/geddyleee → u/perrumpo]

I’m a girl who grew up playing video games with my brother and lived with him in my early 20s, too, but never ever ever did either of us ever remotely have any attraction or anything ever.

Same! Although I did say I wanted to marry my older brother once . . . But I wasn't attracted to him in any way. I was just a kindergartener and said weird shit like that because little kids are stupid and say weird shit. (I also wanted to be whatever the hell a "cat farmer" is at that age.) I realized how fucking weird it was way, way before high school.

[u/basilicux → u/geddyleee]

Yeah when I was like. 7 or smth I wanted to marry my brother bc children have no concept of what marriage actually is, they just think it’s someone you love and want to spend your life with (which, I did, but not like that lmao) and who better than your best friend who you play games with and gives you hugs??? Very quickly did I realize “oh I absolutely do not want to marry my brother”

[u/NinjaBabaMama → u/godzirrarawr]

Biology does play a part in how we choose our mates, so maybe she has a chemical imbalance?

[u/romulea → u/[deleted]]

What a terrible day to have eyes.

[u/godzirrarawr → u/[deleted]]

This is.. awful yet perfect

[u/Echospite → u/[deleted]]

thanks i hate it

[u/Mejari → u/[deleted]]

It would have cost you nothing to not say this.

[u/ClothDiaperAddicts → u/godzirrarawr]

Omg. She reminded me of the clearly intellectually challenged people on Hoarders. Like she literally can’t comprehend it.

[u/somedudetoyou]

You know the other day when I was complaining about not getting the juicy gory details from posts, I'd like to withdraw my statement.

[u/jonathan_the_slow]

This is either an incest fantasy or the ramblings of a severely mentally unwell woman. I’m not sure which.

[u/Illegal_Tender → u/jonathan_the_slow]

It could be both.

These don't strike me as being mutually exclusive in any way.

[u/finnreyisreal]

I made a mistake of reading this while eating. I’m so sorry, my bowl of ravioli, you didn’t deserve this.

[u/young_coastie]

I know a woman who met a half brother when they were both in their twenties and am fairly certain they carried on a relationship for about 5-7 years. They were roommates and neither of them had partners, and they were - very - close. The family wouldn’t talk about it. When they had a falling out he moved back to his hometown in another state.

Now that woman is married to a man she met only months ago, and he looks a LOT like the brother.

That’s the only reason I think this may be true.

[u/homeostasisatwork → u/young_coastie]

Imagine that break up. Thanksgiving has never been the same

[u/Smmosis]

This seemed like it maybe could be real until the reveal with the mother and her own brother

[u/bigwigmike]

I can’t imagine any psychologist in the world would try to help a brother and sister evolve into spouses

[u/CumulativeHazard → u/bigwigmike]

Me either. But if I were that psychologist I would probably think “if I come out too strongly against this, they’re just gonna stop coming in, and as wrong as I think this is, I have a better chance of getting to the bottom of it and helping them if I keep my judgement to myself and go along with it for now. Especially if it is an abuse situation, giving her a reason to pull away could only make it worse.”

[u/bigwigmike → u/CumulativeHazard]

So you think it’s a matter of the OOP taking not outright disgust by the psychologist as encouragement? I can see that

[u/Sad-Frosting-8793 → u/bigwigmike]

Either that, or oop left out some major details in what they told the psycologist.

[u/Echospite → u/bigwigmike]

No psychologist who is any good at their job will hear a patient opening up about something that makes them vulnerable and jump immediately to shaming, judging and alienating them. Nor should they.

[u/Weltallgaia → u/bigwigmike]

Theres not gonna be anything resembling evolution in this gene pool.

[u/this_moi → u/bigwigmike]

I sort of figured that the psychologist might have understood that this is a big deal but recognized that OP might get spooked and stop getting help if they confronted the situation too abruptly. Letting the patient lead the conversation makes total sense while trying to get to know them and establish a safe environment.

[u/PrayForMojo_]

Everything in this is fucked up.

Except...the magnetic ring idea is actually really cool. I'm going to consider that for my (non-sister) girlfriend when the time is right.

[u/anonareyouokay → u/PrayForMojo_]

"Anon this is so sweet, where did you come up with this idea?"

-Your Girlfriend

[u/peppi4life]

r/eyebleach

[u/Gamecock_Red]

Are they the couple from the coffee commercial?

[u/ughwhyusernames]

Excellent timing to dig this one up as Missouri is in the process making abortion illegal,. including for rape and incest.

[u/AnAnonymousAlien]

What the Alabama is this

[u/IrradiatedBeagle]

Get off the internet, V.C.

[u/HCIBSW]

Whoa, wow.

I really wished someone back then would have asked "Have you ever dated anyone else?" and had her answer.

[u/methylenebluestains]

I'd like to think I'm pretty accepting of other's sexual interests (frankly, if they're consenting adults and they're not bringing kids into this, idgas), but with the reveal that he mom had feelings for her own brother I can only assume that there were some very poor relationship boundaries for OOP and her brother growing up.

[u/bad_armenian_juju]

You see how I'm judging you? I'm a random internet stranger. And I'm liberal! I don't give a shit if you and your brother want to wine and dine at the Golden Corral and go home for sex.

That comment on the /r/legaladvice post was everything

[u/Busy_Understanding81]

What in the flowers in the attic?!?

[u/conceptalbum]

Well, now I know why Abe Simpsons will never recognise Missouri.

[u/Positive_Mark_7890]

What in the Flowers in the Attic is this shit here?

[u/Celany]

I really do NOT know what to think of this one, which is why I posted.

There are a lot of random comments of OOP's that I didn't include, but everything I read sounded...I don't know...non-trolling and...extremely introverted but normalish? At one point, she mentions they were raised to be very private, and that put me to mind of the scene in American Beauty where the neighbors show up to the Fitz's with a gift basket and when they ring the doorbell, the whole family has that "deer in the headlights" look of "Why would anybody ring our doorbell?".

I hope OOP and her brother are happy. I hope she kept up with therapy.

To be clear, I do not support or have any interest in incest, but I also have a hard time condemning OOP as deranged or abused. At least based on her own narrative (which was consistent, if nothing else) she doesn't feel that she was abused and seems like she's overall happy with the life she has.

Just a mystery. Very curious to see how other people feel.

[u/dcconverter → u/Celany]

Props to OP for putting this together but also fuck you OP for putting this together.

[u/Different_Smoke_563 → u/Celany]

I once watched a documentary of incestuous relationships. There was a "couple" (brother/sister) in AZ--moved from the east coast so that family wouldn't know and went total NC--who wanted to get married but the laws for married incest were more strict vs. unmarried incest, so they just stayed together.

Another couple was a father/daughter, but they didn't know they were blood related until a stay at a hospital broke open the "secret" (she was adopted by another family at birth and didn't know bio-family).

A third was a German "couple" (sister/brother) that everyone knew was incest and the German equivalent of CPS kept taking their kids away (all of the kids had issues), so eventually the sister had an "affair" just so they could have a child they could raise together.

All of the "couples" were super normal except for the weird incest. And this might have been a couple of different documentaries, know that I think about it. In either case I watched them several decades ago and have no idea what they were called.

[u/DesignerComment → u/Different_Smoke_563]

There was a brother/sister couple (full or half-siblings, I don't recall) on Jerry Springer once. They'd both been given up for adoption separately as infants, years apart, in different states. They met as adults and started banging. They couldn't legally get married, so they moved in together, he got a vasectomy, and she had either already had or was planning to get a hysterectomy because they didn't want to take any chances. They came off as a little defensive but were of at least average intelligence and otherwise normalish.

[u/ilex-opaca → u/Celany]

This was interesting. Also not condoning incest, but glad she's happy and in therapy. Two thoughts, though:

1. How does someone get to high school without being aware of the social taboo surrounding incest? Genuinely curious here.
2. The way OOP talks about other people and social connections outside of her brother seems...kind of disordered? Like, I'm very introverted and private, but the level of detachment regarding others strikes me as going beyond that to level I can't quite call "normal-ish."

[u/MorganAndMerlin → u/ilex-opaca]

I’m going out on a limb and saying that the family dynamic is heavily skewed and OOP doesn’t know it because they were all raised in this dynamic and raised to be “private” therefore sheltered from outside influences to tell them that this dynamic was fucking weird.

Then taking into account mom’s “confession” (provided this story is real), then mom very well could have been subconsciously recreating the environment of her own childhood. Or at the very least not discouraging inappropriate behaviors as her children got older, and even encouraging some inappropriate ones like lack of boundaries and whatever weird family dynamic there is underneath here.

I just find it hard to take this story exactly as it’s written and that there isn’t some kind of “ohhhhh, that’s why” hidden either their childhood, from mom, or just from themselves.

[u/ilex-opaca → u/MorganAndMerlin]

Oh, I completely agree! I think that OOP is definitely an unreliable narrator (as most of us are when relating our own stories!) and that there was very likely a skewed family dynamic that led to this point. It's just that there seems to have been a degree of some outside socialization during childhood present (unless OOP was totally homeschooled until high school and cut off from media consumption, which is certainly a possibility--though the siblings were gaming together, so that part seems unlikely?), so the lack of knowing that it's a societal taboo until late teen years still seems odd.

[u/Echospite → u/ilex-opaca]

I suspect that the answer to 1 and 2 are the same, and it's "isolated from the world at a crucial stage of development".

People keep mentioning Flowers in the Attic. Other than the obvious, another key theme of the book was that the children were literally trapped in the attic during development and the trauma of it plus the isolation made them both bond to an unhealthy degree. Like there's a scene where the brother rapes the sister and her immediate instinct is to say it's no big deal and that she secretly wanted it. The whole book was about trauma and isolation and how it can give you an incredibly fucked up view of what is normal, and how even when you realise it's not normal, it still feels safer than what normal actually is.

There is probably a lot of backstory here that we're not seeing.

[u/FrostBellaBlue → u/Celany]

"I don't live in a town, I live in St. Louis." is hilarious to me, and I can't articulate why

[u/yogos15 → u/FrostBellaBlue]

Honestly, when I saw St. Louis, it kind of surprised me that there was “Sweet Home Alabama”-level shenanigans going on here. Although, I do have speculations as to what areas of St. Louis this could have happened in…

[u/puhleez420]

This has to be a troll.

[u/Boobboop1237]

What the actual fuck

[u/Weltallgaia]

Well you can't unfuck your sister. This is definitely one of those lines you cross and you can never have a normal life after doing so. I'd say 99% of people would never go out with either of them after this so fuck it. Dumb as shit to try to have a kid with your sibling though.

[u/itsamna2002]

I am SO close to deleting this app. What did I just read

[u/Bens_den_of_thoughts]

Anyone think that the mom actually sorta nurtured this relationship in childhood because of her own unrequited feelings for her brother? Or maybe it’s crazy DNA

[u/[deleted]]

They are both idiots for not only thinking incest is fine, but going ahead and getting pregnant ON PURPOSE. Her saying the baby was “on purpose but not planned” is insane. She doesn’t want to even believe that her baby will have any problems, let alone no clue of the legalities of it. I’m glad she chose to abort if that’s true.

Fuck your brother all you want, but don’t bring an innocent child into your weird incestual world. Despite all the health risks, a child does not need to grow up in a household with people who don’t understand familial boundaries like that. If they’re fine with incest, what’s to stop either of them from bringing their child into this shit?

[u/Mosuke300]

This is absolutely mental illness. They need serious psychological intervention, not only are they mentally ill but she also seems kind of…stupid? How does someone not get to your late teens without knowing incest is wrong? Also they decided to conceive a child without any prior planning and then she only realised it might be a problem when she became pregnant?

[u/charlotte-ent]

but I think being "best friends" at that time is what placed the catalyst inside me.

Phrasing...

[u/tank5]

Her writing is so weird, it’s like an alien learned fluent English but the way of thinking is still fundamentally different.

I cracked up at Missouri though, way to live up to the stereotype.