Are there any genuine issues in dairy farming that needs fixing, and how can change be accomplished?

[u/valonianfool]

Recently Ive read a post by Dairyisntscary on tumblr, who currently goes by a different username, saying that there are things they think are wrong with industrial husbandry practices, and that they hate how cows dont really "get the whole cow experience" on large-scale dairy farms.

They've said that they "don’t believe that we can argue that cows on large dairies get their “freedom to display natural behaviors” in any sense and I don’t think it’s fair to them at all."

This felt a bit jarring to me, because previously theyve stated that there is no real correlation between animal welfare and the size of the dairy farm, large farms can have good welfare while small farms can have bad welfare. And for much of the time theyve been on tumblr, their position has been that animal welfare on dairy farms arent really as bad as vegan activists make them out to be, though even back then they still admitted that there are improvements that can be made.

To people who work in dairy farming: what's your opinion on the general animal welfare in dairy farming, and is there anything that can be improved? Do you share Scout's (Dairyisntscary's nickname) feelings on the state of animal welfare in dairyfarming?

[u/SlumberSession]

The only thing missing from the CoW experience is fear of predation. Oh, and disease.

[u/panderp]

Not a farmer but did live on one for a while while living with relatives who farmed. I find the.. "get the whole cow experience" bit a little strange, 'cause...

Cows? Almost all the time, all they do is eat, move a little, eat, shit, sleep, repeat. Occasionally you might see one do something interesting, like nibble on another cow, or watch a passing person, lean over the fence and moo at cars.. but generally? cows are sedate.

[u/valonianfool → u/panderp]

Was it a large or a small farm?

Scout has explained that they hate how large dairies dont allow any mother-calf bonds, cows are moved between different pens with no regard for stable herd dynamics and theres little enrichment except for cow brushes.

[u/Freebee5 → u/valonianfool]

Is this cow-calf contact desire by people an emotional response to make themselves feel better or for actual welfare of the calf?

Research has consistently found that calf health is poorer under full contact systems and many of the research findings find only slightly reduced poorer health implications under partial contact systems due to excessive milk consumption mainly.

This is repeated over the years in every county the study is carried out in, it's not an outlier study.

Cow-calf contact systems in Irish dairying - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority https://share.google/ys99tPJQbKAW5wYfX

This study was carried out under ideal conditions on a Research farm under optimum wellbeing parameters, being on grass for 270+ days a year.

[u/meat_and_grief → u/valonianfool]

IowaDairyFarmer is a good person to learn from. He sometimes roasts vegans on his channel, and they repeat the same exact criticisms that you're sharing here.

He's mentioned that modern cattle nowadays have had that supposed "maternal instinct" bred out of them. It can actually be dangerous for the farmer and herd if there's an overly protective mother, and he's talked about how sometimes the calf is either completely ignored or even physically hurt by the mother. This anthropomorphizing of farm animals that animal rights advocates propagate reveals just how little they know about animal husbandry.

Actual dairy farmers regard them as uninformed opinions from people who haven't stepped foot on an actual farm in their lives. I'm inclined to agree with that assessment.

[u/valonianfool → u/meat_and_grief]

Scout was a farm worker for several years working at a larger dairy and currently has their own small dairy farm. They are not someone who hasnt stepped foot on an actual farm.

I remember them agreeing that dairy cows had most of their maternal instinct bred out of them, but stated that its still possible to raise cows with their calves together, which has been validated by some studies.

[u/DestroyTheMatrix_3]

Everything or nothing depending on if you're talking to a crybaby or not.