Troubleshooting Schedule 101: Figuring out your baby's sleep requirement

[u/omegaxx19]

[EDIT 12/27 to add this note: There is zero need to get anxious about "baby is not getting enough sleep". I read up on the literature around sleep and development (medical researcher myself). While there is physiologic basis to suspect that good sleep -> better development, the evidence is quite slight and biology is so powerful that the vast majority of babies/parents are probably getting enough sleep for normal development. More consolidated sleep/normal schedule are great for parental wellbeing, and parental wellbeing is super important, but there is zero need to feel guilty as a parent if your baby isn't doing those AND you are okay with its effect on your lifestyle and still able to function the way you want to. However, if you are getting too tired/burnt out by your baby's sleep patterns, understanding his/her sleep requirement may help you get him/her on pattern that enables you to function better.]

So I've been on this sub for a while now and learning a lot from everyone. One recurrent thing that is almost behind every post I see: is my baby getting too much or not enough sleep?

In troubleshooting every sleep issue with my own baby, the most useful piece of info that I have uncovered is my own baby's sleep requirement. I can say pretty comfortably now that my almost 8mo's sleep requirement is about 13.5-14 hours a day, and has been around that since 4 months. It doesn't matter to me if the AVERAGE baby is sleeping 13 hours around this age: I know he is maximally happy with 13.5-14 hours. Knowing this has made figuring out his schedule SO MUCH easier, because I know his total wake time needs to be 10-10.5 hours, BUT if he had a few days where he didn't get 13.5-14 hours I'd need to catch him up and let him sleep a bit more. So I just wanted to share some observations that I made while uncovering that piece of info.

To uncover the info, I took a week where I thought my baby is getting enough sleep and averaged the daily sleep over that week. And then I applied extrapolation based on the following:

-babies sleep the most in the first 2 months, then sleep requirement decreases by about 1 hour between month 3 and month 12 (https://parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-chart/) -- however, babies stay in their percentile, which means that a high sleep-needs newborn sleeping 17 hours a day will in all likelihood need 16 hours at 6 months

-while reading about averages in the chart above, realize that those are averages of how much babies are sleeping, not how much sleep they need - it is very difficult to make anyone, babies or not, sleep more than they need, but it is easy to make a baby not sleep enough, therefore the amount of sleep babies need is probably higher than the average amount slept that babies are getting

Five criteria to tell if baby is getting enough sleep

1. Stable schedule that doesn't vary a ton from day to day (consistent wake up time and bedtime, roughly consistent amount of day sleep and night sleep);
2. Easy to settle at nap time (<10 minutes) and at bedtime (<20 minutes);
3. Good night sleep with a long, continuous stretch of sleep where wakings are very brief, don't require resettling, or only requiring a night feed if age appropriate;
4. Baby stays awake on stroller rides, car rides, and during feeding (unless it's at the very end of their wake windows);
5. Baby and caregivers are all happy with the schedule. A happy baby is energetic, calm, eats well, and poops well.

Stability is the most important criteria. This is because a hallmark of overtiredness/chronic sleep deprivation is bad nights interspersed with a good night/day here and there, the "crash" night/day where the baby is so exhausted he/she crashes for a 12/24-hour segment and has the edge taken off just enough that he/she is ready to be unsettled again. During the "crash" night/day his/her sleep duration may be higher than his/her actual sleep requirement.

What if there never seems to be a good week?

Then it is probably safe to assume that your baby is NOT getting enough sleep, and address the main reasons:

1. a schedule that doesn't allow for enough sleep (e.g. wake window too long OR too many naps/wake windows) or has sleep in the wrong places (e.g. not enough time for night sleep [time between bedtime and out of crib time])
2. sleep association (having a parent-led sleep association and not being able to fall asleep or connect cycles independently)
3. psychological needs in older babies / toddlers (e.g. anxiety, fear, boundary testing)
4. insufficient caloric intake during the day
5. inappropriate sleep environment (temperature, sleep wear, light exposure, noise)
6. medical illness (e.g. sleep apnea, reflux)
7. disruptors, e.g. developmental milestones (last weeks), teething (usually no more than a few days)

[u/omegaxx19]

Sounds to me like she needs more sleep, and that you should aim for 14.5 hours (total wake time 9.5 hours).

What time is wake up time (out of crib time) and bedtime typically?

How long are each of her naps without you capping them on 2.25/2.5/2.5/3?

This sub likes to cap naps, which backfires in 90% of cases. There are select cases where you would use it, generally to protect the circadian rhythm during time zone changes, daylight savings or nap transitions, and usually capping the last nap is sufficient (during the 2-1 transition you can also cap first nap, although it's a harder move and we did fine with just capping second nap). Some high sleep needs and easy going babies do fine with capping daytime sleep as they are able to just sleep through the night and still get what looks like a normal amount of sleep in total, but I personally think these kids are actually running on a sleep deficit most days, and can turn into toddlers who drop nap early because parents are in the habit of restricting daytime sleep for any sleep problem.

[u/Dom__Mom → u/omegaxx19]

Thank you for the quick reply!

Bedtime is typically 8pm, out of crib at 7am (though we have held her in the rocking chair for some early morning wakes but do everything to limit any exposure to light during wakes).

So it kinda depends because if we rescue a nap (hold her after she’s woken from a nap that’s 35 mins or less crying hard), she would sleep for hours no question. Im not sure we’ve ever gone a day where we have a solid sense of what she needs nap wise. We were told by a consultant (PLS author) that babies will sleep for too long/that saving via contact naps forces her to sleep too long for a nap hence why we’ve capped it. But, as an example, yesterday I rescued her first nap because she woke at the 25 min mark and was super upset. She passed out the instant I held her and popped a pacifier in and ended up napping a total of 1.25 hrs but I did rouse her near the end out of fear of letting her nap too long. The second nap, my husband put her down for and she napped on her own for 1.25 hrs again, but he also woke her up because he worried about “too much day sleep”. Last nap of the day was 32 mins in the carrier on the go and she was woken because of preserving bedtime. Basically, I have no solid answer because she doesn’t reliably nap on her own for long yet and we are often saving naps…

I’ve started to worry about her being really tired since we’ve started extending wake windows and capping naps because she falls asleep breastfeeding quite regularly when I feed her. She will wake from a nap and I’ll feed her 20-30 mins later and she’s passing out on the breast. Or she will have been awake for 1.75 hours and same thing happens. Again, the consultant we spoke with in the past said that breastfeeding is naturally sleep inducing and this isn’t a sign she needs more sleep, but she didn’t do this before when we weren’t extending wake windows and capping naps. This consultant also suggested I cap naps even more or limit night sleep to 10.5 or even 10 hours. I’m willing if it’ll improve nights but definitely worried about an overtired baby.

[u/omegaxx19 → u/Dom__Mom]

Urg I'm sorry to hear that you spent good money (I heard the PLS author is expensive) and didn't get the result you're after. A lot of ppl on this sub subscribe to her teachings and she's done an AMA on here before: I think she gives good advice on eliminating sleep associations, but I think her schedule approach is pretty flawed.

We consulted Baby Sleep Science (you can look up their free blog) and I go very much by their approach, because it makes scientific sense from what I've read AND it works amazingly well for my son (now 20mo). I'll outline the basic premises I've used and the pros/cons of the approach IME and you can decide for yourself.

Basic premises:

1) Sleep is regulated by the circadian rhythm AND homeostatic pressure (sleep pressure): https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2014/05/01/important-sleep-basics-all-parents-pediatricians-and-caregivers-should-know. WWs are a way of conceptualizing sleep pressure. Clocktimes (except in time zone changes) and light exposure are ways of conceptualizing circadian rhythm.

2) For newborns, sleep pressure predominant. 2-6m is when circadian rhythm is rapidly organizing and developing, and the priority is to establish regular DWT and bedtimes so circadian rhythm can regularize. However, early morning wakings are common and developmental (last segment of sleep is the last to consolidate)--some babies will not have them but many babies will and it's not anything you're doing wrong. For babies over 6m, circadian rhythm dominates and early morning sleep should be relatively consolidated, so you shouldn't have them everyday. If you are, you should look into the sleep environment and schedule carefully.

3) When the circadian rhythm is running well, night sleep should be good (within age-appropriate expectations). If you have issue with night wakings, it's generally an issue of illness (usually obvious), sleep environment (usually obvious), sleep associations (why independent sleep is important), or chronic sleep deprivation (which increases cortisol level and leads to fragmentation of night sleep AND naps).

4) Daytime sleep is mostly dominated by sleep pressure. A very tired baby will naturally want to nap more (if sleep environment and sleep onset association permit). A well-rested baby will naturally not want to nap as much.

Putting 3 and 4 together, it really means that you should NOT cap daytime sleep to a certain amount, because a lot of times extra naps are a way for the baby to make up for any sleep debt. You should only wake from nap if it will interfere with circadian rhythm in any way. This most common happens as you are approaching a nap transition where the last nap ends up too late in the day, and will end up interfering with bedtime.

Pros of this approach to sleep:

1) Generally very well night sleep. We got rid of our last morning feed around 6.5mo with very little prompting (I just reduced time on boob gradually, and one day kiddo didn't bother waking up), and have had 10+ hours of night sleep since. Only some night wakings around nap transitions or during travels with major schedule disruption.

2) Excellent energy/mood throughout the day, very rare issue with falling asleep during feeding or in carseat/stroller.

3) Able to maintain good sleep even into toddlerhood. Toddlers are INCREDIBLY good at hiding sleep deprivation and staying up forever, but we've been able to maintain ~11 hour nights and 1.5-2 hour nap which has been really important for his emotional regulation (definitely more tantrums when he hasn't slept as well) and our sanity.

Cons of this approach to sleep:

1) Shorter nights: Until my kiddo started daycare (where the nap environment just isn't enough for him and he'd wake up early all the time) we were stuck with ~10.5 hour nights most days. He was happy awake and would wait till DWT, but it was annoying for my perfectionistic tendencies.

2) Very labor-intensive and a lot of nap-trappedness. We had 1-on-1 nanny the first year so it was doable (and I'm a homebody anyways), but if we had a daycare kid or multiple kids or more active lifestyle it would've been hard. That being said I had friends who mostly went by this approach but weren't as anal as us, and they did fine too. They did have slightly more night disruptions here and there, and used early bedtimes more.

Re: your kiddo:

1) Bedtime and out of crib time sound very appropriate (and was what we were doing).

2) The pre-nap wake windows are beyond what she can tolerate. Waking up angry <1 full cycle in (full cycle is usually about 45min) is a surefire sign that she is overtired. Sleep pressure is clearly sky high because she falls asleep as soon as you tend to her. It's fine to keep going BUT that's at least partly contributing to her false starts.

3) I'd let her naps as long as she possibly wants. Sounds like her night sleep is bad enough that she can use a day of early bedtime (see scenario #2 for early bedtime: https://www.babysleepscience.com/single-post/2014/04/08/early-vs-late-bedtime-which-is-right-how-to-use-early-and-late-bedtimes-to-solve-common-s), so try to get her first 2 naps as long as you can (I've held my kiddo for 3 hours for a nap once after a disastrous night).

4) For other days, I'd focus on doing a 3-nap schedule, rescue the first two naps and let them go as long as needed, and just cap last nap if needed to protect bedtime (for 8p I'd think that waking her up by 5:15-5:30 is sufficient). I'd consider scaling back on the wake windows a tad, although once your nights are better she may be able to handle those longer wake windows.

[u/Dom__Mom → u/omegaxx19]

Thank you so much for this feedback! We are definitely disappointed in the advice we were given with how pricey it was… plus I just can’t see how continuing to cut away sleep will help. Shes had longer first stretches lately (7ish hours) without us capping naps as much but its after her feed around 3-4am that things fall off and we get frequent wakes OR an early morning wake that’s very hard to settle her for. I keep wondering if I should save naps or not but she wakes so upset after such a short time napping that I feel I should assist her. When I assist her naps to extend them and we help her get back down in the mornings, she’s getting about 14-14.25 hours of sleep total, whereas when we cap day sleep, she sleeps about the same at night but gets less overall sleep which makes me think you’re right about not capping day sleep. Still, I get so nervous and haven’t let her contact nap endlessly because of what we were told (that she will nap indefinitely and doesn’t need that nap length and it will ruin her nights). Would you say an early bedtime is necessary even with the first long stretch we are getting and our assisting her in the morning? I don’t want to create a habit with assisting her so I’m just feeling stuck!

[u/omegaxx19 → u/Dom__Mom]

Sounds like you're making progress, but she still needs some more. Keep doing what you are doing. As long as you keep a stable out of crib time and bedtime things should slowly get better.