r/moderatepolitics • u/awaythrowawaying • 2d ago

News Article US Justice Department sues UCLA alleging antisemitic educational environment

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-justice-department-sues-ucla-alleging-antisemitic-educational-environment-2026-05-26/
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u/VultureSausage 1d ago

Thing is, the Jewish state is intrinsically connected to Jewish identity. Trying to deny this and pretend that “condemning Israel” has nothing whatsoever to do with Jewish identity is absurd.

Israel claims that, but Israel has no authority to speak on the behalf of anyone who isn't Israeli.

Zionism is relevant because Israel is claiming authority to speak on behalf of people based on the ethnicity of those people for political reasons. That there is an intrinsic part of Judaism that desires a Jewish state in modern-day Israel does not mean that support for the actions of the modern state of Israel is intrinsic to Judaism. Support for "Israel" in the sense of an ideal Jewish homeland in the Levant is not the same as support for "Israel" in the sense of the modern-day state of that name. The latter is trying to achieve (a version of) the former, but they are not the same. Israel the state is conflating itself with Israel the ideal for entirely political reasons.

In other words, you do not have to be a Zionist (supporter of the modern-day state of Israel) to because Jew (supporter of the idea of Israel).

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u/knign 1d ago

I can only reiterate what I said above:

  • Judaism is a religion. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to any religion.
  • Zionist movement created modern state of Israel 78 years ago. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to this history.
  • People can have any views they want. You can be a Jew who hates Israel or you can be an Israeli who hates Jews.
  • None of that changes the fact that Israel is the Jewish state as as such demanding to "condemn Israel" is not materially different than saying "Jews aren't welcome".
  • This wouldn't be any different for any other nation state.

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u/VultureSausage 1d ago edited 1d ago

None of that changes the fact that Israel is the Jewish state

You're doing the thing I pointed out, conflating Israel the state as being synonymous with Israel the religious concept of a Jewish homeland. It isn't. That Israel the state aspires to be Israel the concept does not mean that it is. If we're talking Jews as an ethnicity then it's even more spurious. It is a Jewish state; that does not mean that every Jew is Israeli.

A Jewish man in Massachusetts does not intrinsically have a link to Israel. That link being asserted by Israel is arguably in itself anti-Semitic because it asserts that people are associated with the actions of a state they have nothing to do with, that has presumed to take upon itself the right to speak for people without their consent.

Judaism is a religion. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to any religion.

The religion itself is relevant because it is the means through which the state of Israel legitimises itself. Further, the idea that a Jewish homeland in the Levant has nothing to do with Judaism is utterly absurd.

Zionist movement created modern state of Israel 78 years ago. Nothing in this discussion is relevant to this history.

Zionism as a political movement didn't end 78 years ago. The claim that the state that grew out of those efforts is identical to the religious concept of Israel and that the state of Israel has a mandate to speak for all the Jews of the world is intimately linked to both Zionism and Judaism. The idea of a return to the Promised Land and the creation of a Jewish homeland there is deeply rooted in religion. Israel the state represents an attempt to make that a reality, but that doesn't mean one has to accept that claim in order to be Jewish.