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u/Funktionierende Mar 21 '19
When I searched specifically for "Lion and Lamb", I found the following translation of the passage - "The lion will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.". - Isaiah 11:6,7
However, I flipped open my copy of the Plautdietsch Bibel and I'm getting Wolf and lamb here - "de Wilw un de Lama woaren frädlich toop läwen, de Leopard woat mank de Kösen ligjen, un een kjliena Jung woat Kjalwa un junge Leiws, un Mastvee aules toop en eene Häad jagen." - Jesaja 11:6
And I also checked the KJV passage: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them" Isaiah 11:6, KJV
Curious. I'm no longer religious but I was raised on this stuff and I specifically remember it being "Lion and the lamb".
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Mar 21 '19
I was raised a Christian Scientist, went to Sunday School for an hour, then up to church for another hour, and many times church on Wednesday night. When I was in high school I became a board member at the church. Never once did I hear "wolf" talked about in any form. I'm no longer religious, but when I first heard about this ME, I was in complete disbelief until I checked my childhood bible (standard KJV). It indeed said 'wolf'. Shook me to my core. I knew without a shadow of a doubt then that the ME is a real thing, if I didn't already from all of the other examples.
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u/Lockwood85 Mar 21 '19
I'm admittedly not that religious in reading the Bible and such, but I definitely know that this is the proper way. My time spent in a Catholic school is enough to know that there was never any "wolf." Great find here, should probably buy it lol.
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u/threeznbeez Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
What the fuck is happening? I swear to christ I was doing a Lion and lamb painting for my uncle who is a pastor. Was going to do it as a gift to thank him for helping me with a court case (he's also a lawyer lol) and I distinctly remember my mom and I speaking about the passage and even googling passages with her and talking about scripture. Quoting scripture. Planning on incorporating it at the bottom. I'm not very religious but my Mom is and was helping me. this JUST happened like....a month ago.
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u/pimpboss Apr 01 '19
Two places in Bible you can see these verses
“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:6
These verses representing Christ Millenia, where Satan will be in prison for 1000 years
The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,” Says the Lord. Isaiah 65:25
These verse representing New earth and life with Jesus (serpent will go hell with Satan as God's original curse, Here dust means hell).
Both verses say We all go back to the original life style of Garden of Eden, where killing is not a requirement of Food. Garden of Eden the food consumption was vegetarianism.
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u/godsdragon79 Mar 20 '19
Nice find!
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Mar 20 '19
I checked the bottom- it’s from Hobby Lobby, which of course is uber-Christian.
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u/godsdragon79 Mar 20 '19
Yeah... they wouldn't make a goof like this if it had always been "wolf".
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u/samsamsamuel Mar 20 '19
For what its worth, my dad who is super christian has been correcting people about this passage for the last twenty years or so. I've several times heard him correct people by saying "actually the verse itself says the wolf lays with the lamb and the lion eats straw like an ox".
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u/Toby_Shandy Mar 21 '19
I strongly believe this is the correct explanation. "The L&L" is a paraphrase that really stuck in the human subconscious because the alliteration has a very nice ring to it. In my native tongue, lion and the lamb are not alliterated, which is likely why I've never heard this paraphrase and it sounds weird to me, whereas wolf and the lamb sounds familiar.
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u/mayoayox Mar 21 '19
Not only is it alliterative, but Jesus is described as both the Lion of the tribe of Judah awa the Lamb of God. Theres even a pop CCM song about it that came out a couple years ago
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u/melossinglet Mar 22 '19
huh,interesting..are there any M.E that he is strongly hit by??and any others from the bible.?
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u/masmoose Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
I agree, I had always been told or assumed that the lion laid with the lamb. Most “super Christians” will know it’s wolf because they spend time in the Bible and the change wasn’t as dramatic for the most of us. I am merely saying that this verse will be the argument for everyone with a lion and lamb tattoo or anything. Even though I do agree, given the fact the lamb next to the lion is not dead or with 7 horns.
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u/scruggbug Mar 20 '19
I don’t know if this has been covered before, but I specifically remember when I read Twilight in middle school, something along the lines of “so the lamb fell in love with the lion”. Anyone know what I’m talking about or if that residue still exists?
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u/supersmileys Mar 21 '19
I found the quote from the books:
“And so the lion fell in love with the lamb…" he murmured. I looked away, hiding my eyes as I thrilled to the word. "What a stupid lamb," I sighed. "What a sick, masochistic lion.”
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u/gigi4808 Mar 21 '19
You beat me to using this as an example. It is in the book and the movie still. I watched the movie not that long ago and I double checked the book.
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Mar 21 '19
My burning question is: how do they miss this residue??? I mean, if they’re capable of changing things at all, they must be aware they are missing things, right? That leads me to think they’re “missing” them on purpose. Any thoughts on this?
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u/scruggbug Mar 21 '19
“It never said the lion and the lamb, it was a wolf.”
“IT SAYS IT IN TWILIGHT, THE VAMPIRE MOVIE WITH ROBERT PATTINSON”
“Have you been taking your meds?”
If there is someone behind this, leaving us residue in a place like Twilight only helps them.
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Mar 21 '19
Whoa, hey, we’re on the same page here.
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u/scruggbug Mar 21 '19
Haha no, I’m saying when we try to explain this to someone, we’re going to sound insane.
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u/pilgrimboy Mar 20 '19
And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Revelation 5:5-6 (ESV)
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u/threeznbeez Mar 21 '19
Jeopardy featured this question in which Alex Trebek asks "Who does the Lion lay down with" and answer of course was lamb. Thought you guys would find this interesting. You gotta skip forward in the vid a little bit, around 1 min and 25 seconds but its in there. Sorry if this is repost!
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u/masmoose Mar 20 '19
God says he is the lion and the lamb. People use this in regards to that fact not that a lion laid with a lamb. Even though I’m one that believes it was changed. People will argue that the tattoos and items that have lion and lamb now relates to the fact He is the Lion and the Lamb
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u/manticalf Mar 20 '19
This lion and lamb are specifically laying down, so it's clearly referring to "the lion shall lay with the lamb."
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Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19
When I first heard of this ME, I went directly over and asked my neighbor, who is a Super Christian (and very nice). The price I had to pay was continually, but politely, squashing his repeated attempts to get me to join their church. Anyhoo, I asked him about the passage, and “who laid down with the lamb.” “Lion”, he said. If a Super Christian said lion, it was lion, and that’s not even including my own knowing from 2x a week church services.
Edited to add church services as a child, lol. I haven’t been to church in decades.
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u/TalonTrax Mar 20 '19
This price was too much. I would have waited for a coupon or until he offered a GroupOn discount.
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u/Red-Lantern Mar 21 '19
What was the response when he found out about the change?
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Mar 21 '19
His face looked like when you think you're stepping on solid ground, but you step in a hole- unstable confusion; but then he quickly moved past it and started trying to recruit me, lol. He said he'd check it out, but never got back to me, and I didn't ask again.
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u/melossinglet Mar 22 '19
dude,ya should have said YES,i'll join....if you can explain what happened to the verse....that would have been a rather interesting challenge to say the least.
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u/quark-nugget Mar 20 '19
Can you cite the passage in the Bible that says that?
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u/masmoose Mar 20 '19
Sure revelations 5:5-6 : the lion of the tribe of Judah. And the lamb that was sacrificed
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u/quark-nugget Mar 20 '19
God says he is the lion and the lamb.
You might want to actually read that passage.
Or maybe you could explain to me exactly how God is saying here that Jesus is an undead 7-eyed 7-horned lamb. Then you can explain where the extra 5 eyes and horns disappeared to with respect to the Lion Lamb Laying image that OP posted.
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u/masmoose Mar 20 '19
Lol I’m not here to explain the Bible to you buddy. The lamb who was sacrificed for all of us has ALWAYS been Jesus. Needless OG amount of eyes.
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Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
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u/quark-nugget Mar 20 '19
Can you tell me which bible version says "The lion will live with the lamb, ..."?
According to this site, all I see is wolf.
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u/sirdarksoul Mar 20 '19
You're correct. I'll be damn. My post is deleted. I did find an explanation of the verse being misquoted on a "biblical" site.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Lion-and-the-Lamb.html
All my life tho I remember the iconography and imagery as showing the lion and lamb. For instance this was painted in the 19th century by Briton Rivière RA
https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/unalion.jpg
And this is from the 1970s. (I'm from the 60s)
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u/Frost_999 Mar 20 '19
There are entire church's known as "Lion and Lamb Church". If you Google image search that, you can see an unbelievable amount of residue.
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Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
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Mar 20 '19
Bible changed from lion/lamb to wolf/lamb.
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Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
Wait what? No way... This is probably one of the biggest mind fucks for me from this sub.
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u/CozmicOwl16 Mar 20 '19
Maybe it is about March. The month not the verb. Comes in like a lion and leaves like a lamb.
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Mar 20 '19
Then what are the statues we put up for the other eleven months?
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u/CozmicOwl16 Mar 20 '19
My grandma had a seasonal display and would change her little statues to match the month and season. I guess it’s weird. She had the free time I guess.
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Mar 21 '19
That’s cool- bless her heart. There’s a piece of me that wants to go back in time and be like that.
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Mar 21 '19
[deleted]
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Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Can you take a photo of that in your bible and link it Imgur? I checked my childhood bible, and it now says “wolf”.
Edit- I guess they can’t.
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u/RWaggs81 Mar 21 '19
That wolf has a great head of hair.
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u/melossinglet Mar 22 '19
might be a wolf in sheeps clothi.....oh wait,never mind..thats even more confusing.
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u/puppybite Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
I always remembered it as lion and the lamb. But I’m not overly observant. This one I’m not certain on. Sex in/and the city has solidly flip flopped in my realities. Fruit loops and froot loops has also flip flopped recently. So I don’t doubt the ME. But I’m not certain about this one.
Just thought I’d add my experience. Maybe it’ll help someone.
You’re not crazy if you remember it and you are certain of it. 👻
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u/Diddu_Sumfin Mar 29 '19
On the interwebs, I'm seeing references to this not being the correct quotation of the Scriptures, going back several years at least. Still, that's really, really weird.
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Mar 20 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/wtf_ima_slider Moderator Mar 21 '19
Not retconned
Just a heads up - in this sub, it is a breach of Rule# 9 to tell others what is and what isn't a Retcon / ME.
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u/ThereIsNoKevinBacon Mar 21 '19
March lol... in my life, i went to church for many years, I've heard the lion and the lamb in sermons countless times. I've never once heard of the wolf and the lamb before the ME. hundreds of sermons, I'm positive in my reality there was never a wolf laying with the lamb.
I stopped going to church at the end of 2012, the change happened after that for me, too bad, it would have been a real mind fuck to suddenly start hearing the wolf and the lamb in sermons lol.
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Mar 20 '19
Well, kiddo, the Bible changed from lion/lamb to wolf/lamb. And I’ll ask you the same question I asked someone else who said the same thing: what statues do we put out for the other eleven months?
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Mar 20 '19 edited Jun 09 '20
[deleted]
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Mar 20 '19
I saw that; I was just pointing out that this idea doesn’t make a lot of sense. But honestly, I’ve come to realize it doesn’t even matter. Whatever people need to tell themselves, that’s cool- we’re all just trying to make our way through this world the best we can. We’re all just stabbing at air anyway.
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u/TimelordME Mar 21 '19
No, this statue was never meant to represent March! that is some twisted propoganda you got there.
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u/NamelessEternalLight Mar 20 '19
Didn't some one once make the argument that the lion and lamb is from an children's story read at Christian schools? Trying to recall.
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u/DuplexFields Mar 20 '19
A scene at the end of the Narnia book "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" has Aslan (multiversal Jesus) turn from a lamb into a lion.
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u/Bigboofin69 Mar 21 '19
So... You do know that there are a lot of different versions of the Bible that were all at some point translated from now dead languages, right? I believe there's even a common phrase used generally for when things are "lost in translation". Not to mention that the entire Bible has become so convoluted from its original version after being rewritten multiple times by rulers in the Middle Ages like King James and Charlegmane that it technically probably wasn't right to begin with anyway.
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u/agentorange55 Mar 23 '19
There are , and never have been any versions of the bible that say "lion and lamb"....yet almost everyone familiar with the Bible remembers it that way. This is why it is a ME, whether or not you believe the Bible to be literally true.
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u/chel0cean Mar 20 '19
I have grandparents who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, they knew I was struggling with some issues and decided to start visiting me once or twice a month, occasionally bringing me a watchtower magazine which is thoughtful but I never read them. One day I asked if they knew the verse from the Bible about the lion in the lamb, specifically because of the ME but I did not tell them about the change. He quoted the verse from memory right then and there, we sat down and opened a bible and he realized he was wrong. I haven’t really seen them much since.